OT: Jussie Smollett

@"Kentis" said: Charles Barkley said if the guy wanted to get asaulted he should have just taken a walk in Liam Neeson’s neighborhood.  B)

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

Just curious about your thought processes, do you view
Jussie Smollet’s crime as a hate crime, where he’s filled with hate for a group
and tried to attack that group of people with false accusations?  Is his accusations more or less threatening
than someone painting a swastika on a building?  This is a pretty big impact to the community and country.

I think it could be argued that it is. The worst part of what he did is that he made "white victimization," the bullshit narrative written by white nationalists and made it appear legitimate. Bigots everywhere are celebrating this. He owes every victim of a hate crime an apology. Too many people in this country want to argue that racism just isn't a thing anymore, or that it's OK to beat up gay kids or harrass Muslims. He should go right to fucking jail and they can throw away the key as far as I'm concerned. 

a little something I created out of the goodness of my heart as a simple reminder
'

@"Kentis" said: Charles Barkley said if the guy wanted to get asaulted he should have just taken a walk in Liam Neeson’s neighborhood.  B)

@"IDVikingfan" said:

@"Kentis" said: Charles Barkley said if the guy wanted to get asaulted he should have just taken a walk in Liam Neeson’s neighborhood.  B)

What is the connection with Liam's neighborhood?  I don't follow big or small stars so apparently something relevant...  :-)

@"minny65" said: Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

Hell yes he's in favor of a do-over (he's hoping they look the other way so he can go back to robbing the public teat.)

They need to keep digging and if they find evidence of knowledge of the crime the SOB should be banned for life to old office and surrender and future benefits.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said: Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

...and that's exactly my point. Like I said, bigots everywhere love this Smollet thing. I haven't paid much attention to the news lately, but I'm guessing this is all over right wing media, yeah? Of course it is. It supports what they've been saying all along: "White American Males are the REAL victims."

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"minny65" said: Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

...and that's exactly my point. Like I said, bigots everywhere love this Smollet thing. I haven't paid much attention to the news lately, but I'm guessing this is all over right wing media, yeah? Of course it is. It supports what they've been saying all along: "White American Males are the REAL victims."

Meanwhile, Coast Guard what nationalist who wanted to "kill every last person on earth" is back page stuff. 

@"Akvike" said:

@"minny65" said: Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

The thing that kills me is Harris stating he's in favor of a new election after the inconsistencies and illegal behavior of his paid absentee election procurreer sp?

Hell yes he's in favor of a do-over (he's hoping they look the other way so he can go back to robbing the public teat.)

They need to keep digging and if they find evidence of knowledge of the crime the SOB should be banned for life to old office and surrender and future benefits.

How is what he did not considered an act of terrorism?

I'm not for charging him with that by any means - I'm a bit more compassionate in thinking that just dropping the charges and creating a more compassionate atmosphere is the right way out of this - I just don't see how it's not a form of terrorism. Who was the target of his action? What did he expect to come from his action? Am I supposed to believe, with the crime that supposedly took place, that he didn't intend or expect this to be all over the news? That's ridiculous. 

The reaction from the "crime" was exactly what he was expecting. The national news attention - this is something that affected a lot of people on a personal level and attempted to drive a wedge through the divide between folks.

@"Purple Haze" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"kahsmick" said:  This is just another in a long run of recent staged Hate Crimes.  Ever since they formed the KKK, Racism has been a successful wedge issue for Democrats to gain influence, power and control. 

 They arent just going to give up on trying to intimidate, and deceive the public just because  normal people are ending these phony tropes with goodwill, jobs and common sense.

He will now be elevated to sainthood by The Left for Bravery and Feels -  as is tradition.

Covington Kids are suing WaPo for $250 million for having their lives, school and reputations wrecked over absolutely nothing too.

Fake News Kills

Jesus, right-wing conspiracy much?

It may not be as much of a conspiracy as you think.  Since Nov of 2016 there have been at least 19 fake hate crimes reported and investigated.  The purpose of these crimes were to show how racist america has become under Trump.  The thing is, up until Trump won the White House I cannot remember ANYTHING ever being reported about him being the racist homophobe that he is made out to be.  This latest case is a perfect example of the conspiracy possibility.  What was the most powerful part of this story as it was reported.  "This is MAGA Country".  He wanted people to believe is was a racist,redneck Trump supporter (because that is who ALL Trump supporters are you know) to make his attack more believable.  He also could have pulled it off if this attack were to have taken place in say Texas or somewhere in the south.  But he wanted everyone to believe it was MAGA rednecks that did it in Chicago where %83 of the people in Chicago voted for Hillary and have a super liberal mayor.  The ward the attack took place voted 79% for Hillary.  The wards surrounding the area voted 80%-93% Hillary.  Not much room for MAGA country there.  Is this a right wing consiracy ?  Probobly not, but its hard to not think about it when you look back at past republican candidates and see how the democrats first line of attack is the politics of personal destruction. it doesnt matter if Trump never muttered a racist word before becoming president because social media and the looney left are making sure he is now the biggest racist to ever serve this country and our elected democrats sit back and reap the benefits of the phony accusations.  Don't believe it, answer me this.  How many democrats condemned and asked for the resignation of Robert Byrd from the U.S. Senate.  Byrd was the Exulted Cyclops of the local KKK chapter in WV.  This is one of his letters he wrote. 
In December 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore G. Bilbo:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. 
 This is a man who served in the U.S. Senate for 51 years until he died there.  Not only did democrats re elect him over and over and over again, they pushed him around the capitol grounds in his wheel chair to meetings and hearings. If the democrats were really the champions of ridding the world of racism the Byrd would have been kicked out of the Senate decades ago. 

@"SFVikeFan" said:

@"Purple Haze" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"kahsmick" said:  This is just another in a long run of recent staged Hate Crimes.  Ever since they formed the KKK, Racism has been a successful wedge issue for Democrats to gain influence, power and control. 

 They arent just going to give up on trying to intimidate, and deceive the public just because  normal people are ending these phony tropes with goodwill, jobs and common sense.

He will now be elevated to sainthood by The Left for Bravery and Feels -  as is tradition.

Covington Kids are suing WaPo for $250 million for having their lives, school and reputations wrecked over absolutely nothing too.

Fake News Kills

Jesus, right-wing conspiracy much?

It may not be as much of a conspiracy as you think.  Since Nov of 2016 there have been at least 19 fake hate crimes reported and investigated.  The purpose of these crimes were to show how racist america has become under Trump.  The thing is, up until Trump won the White House I cannot remember ANYTHING ever being reported about him being the racist homophobe that he is made out to be.  This latest case is a perfect example of the conspiracy possibility.  What was the most powerful part of this story as it was reported.  "This is MAGA Country".  He wanted people to believe is was a racist,redneck Trump supporter (because that is who ALL Trump supporters are you know) to make his attack more believable.  He also could have pulled it off if this attack were to have taken place in say Texas or somewhere in the south.  But he wanted everyone to believe it was MAGA rednecks that did it in Chicago where %83 of the people in Chicago voted for Hillary and have a super liberal mayor.  The ward the attack took place voted 79% for Hillary.  The wards surrounding the area voted 80%-93% Hillary.  Not much room for MAGA country there.  Is this a right wing consiracy ?  Probobly not, but its hard to not think about it when you look back at past republican candidates and see how the democrats first line of attack is the politics of personal destruction. it doesnt matter if Trump never muttered a racist word before becoming president because social media and the looney left are making sure he is now the biggest racist to ever serve this country and our elected democrats sit back and reap the benefits of the phony accusations.  Don't believe it, answer me this.  How many democrats condemned and asked for the resignation of Robert Byrd from the U.S. Senate.  Byrd was the Exulted Cyclops of the local KKK chapter in WV.  This is one of his letters he wrote. 
In December 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore G. Bilbo:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. 
 This is a man who served in the U.S. Senate for 51 years until he died there.  Not only did democrats re elect him over and over and over again, they pushed him around the capitol grounds in his wheel chair to meetings and hearings. If the democrats were really the champions of ridding the world of racism the Byrd would have been kicked out of the Senate decades ago. 

19 fake hate crimes since November 2016 in a country of 300 million.  

Meanwhile real hate crimes went up 17% under Trump with more than 7000 hate crimes in 2017.  

19 fake hate crimes vs. 15,000 actual hate crimes in the same time period.

Which ones do right wingers and Fox News push a narrative for?   What Smollett did was ridiculous and heshould be punished for, but don't kid yourselves that there's some epidemic of fake hate crimes compared to the rise of real hate crimes under Trump.  

@"SFVikeFan" said:

Meanwhile real hate crimes went up 17% under Trump with more than 7000 hate crimes in 2017.  

These years/numbers reflect 3 presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump)
The columns are  1) Year  2) Number of Law enforcement agencies reporting 3) Incidents  4) Offenses  

2005          2037            7763            8373
2006          2105            7722            9080
2007          2025            7624            9006
2008          2145            7783            9186
2009          2034            6604            7789
2010          1949            6628            7699
2011          1944            6222            7254
2012          NA
2013          1826            5928            6933
2014          1666            5479            6418
2015          1742            5850            6885
2016          1776            6121            7321
2017          2040            7175            8437

2018 numbers are not posted yet.  

Off the top.... yes... the '16 to '17 numbers seem quite the jump (increase). But not even 'highs', for the last 12 yrs. 
Reason mag (hardly right-wing) seems to qualify >> https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/13/fbi-hate-crime-statistics-increase-trump

Let's look at some numbers via the data.  
First off... as our population has increased (since '05) hate crimes(as a % of population) have decreased over time.  
Second... Obama had an INCREASE of 6418 to 7321 (('14 to '16) of 12.5 %.  AT THE END OF HIS PRESIDENCY.  Where was the consternation, then? 
Third.... Trump's numbers are only slightly above Obama's "worst" years.  (13.5%). 
Fourth... If you look at total hate crime offenses/total population... in the last decade... we're BETTER than where we were in 2008. 
(2008  9186 offenses/304.1 million people) = 0.0030%)
(2017  8437 offenses/325.7 million people) = 0.0026%)

And doesn't the 0.00whatever % give anyone pause that America is pretty damn tolerant?  Whoever is POTUS?

 @"SFVikeFan" said:

19 fake hate crimes vs. 15,000 actual hate crimes in the same time period.

Which ones do right wingers and Fox News push a narrative for?   

lol. 

@"savannahskol" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said:

Meanwhile real hate crimes went up 17% under Trump with more than 7000 hate crimes in 2017.  

Both you and MB have mentioned "17%" as a remarkable number... so let's do a deeper dive into the numbers, shall we? 
My source is the FBI statistics. https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime

These years/numbers reflect 3 presidents (Bush, Obama, Trump)
The columns are  1) Year  2) Number of Law enforcement agencies reporting 3) Incidents  4) Offenses  

2005          2037            7763            8373
2006          2105            7722            9080
2007          2025            7624            9006
2008          2145            7783            9186
2009          2034            6604            7789
2010          1949            6628            7699
2011          1944            6222            7254
2012          NA
2013          1826            5928            6933
2014          1666            5479            6418
2015          1742            5850            6885
2016          1776            6121            7321
2017          2040            7175            8437

2018 numbers are not posted yet.  

Off the top.... yes... the '16 to '17 numbers seem quite the jump (increase). But not even 'highs', for the last 12 yrs. 
Reason mag (hardly right-wing) seems to qualify >> https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/13/fbi-hate-crime-statistics-increase-trump

Let's look at some numbers via the data.  
First off... as our population has increased (since '05) hate crimes(as a % of population) have decreased over time.  
Second... Obama had an INCREASE of 6418 to 7321 (('14 to '16) of 12.5 %.  AT THE END OF HIS PRESIDENCY.  Where was the consternation, then? 
Third.... Trump's numbers are only slightly above Obama's "worst" years.  (13.5%). 
Fourth... If you look at total hate crime offenses/total population... in the last decade... we're BETTER than where we were in 2008. 
(2008  9186 offenses/304.1 million people) = 0.0030%)
(2017  8437 offenses/325.7 million people) = 0.0026%)

And doesn't the 0.00whatever % give anyone pause that America is pretty damn tolerant?  Whoever is POTUS?

 @"SFVikeFan"    

lol. 

@"JimmyinSD" said: Seems odd how the agencies reporting drops down pretty significantly during obama's terms in contrast to when it's a Republican.....do the crimes not take place in those areas when certain parties are in control or do those areas just not push their numbers up to the FBI when it makes certain parties look bad?

Tough talk coming from someone who got out of military service for bone spurs.

I expanded on the table a little bit.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Seems odd how the agencies reporting drops down pretty significantly during obama's terms in contrast to when it's a Republican.....do the crimes not take place in those areas when certain parties are in control or do those areas just not push their numbers up to the FBI when it makes certain parties look bad?

Or is it that certain groups feel more empowered when the presidential candidate and then president is openly talking about assaulting protestors?

Tough talk coming from someone who got out of military service for bone spurs.

@"medaille" said: I expanded on the table a little bit.

...

• I didn’t have population data for every year, before 2015 the data is every 5 years.  I prorated the populations between those years.
• I assumed the # of agencies stayed the same between all those years.  I would guess the number of agencies has shifted minimally, but you could argue that as population increased we have more agencies.  IDK, I’m not looking it up. The offenses per agency is trending upwards through most of Obama’s presidency, as is population.
• We don’t know which agencies are reporting or if they are consistently the same ones.  I would assume that it’s a large enough sample size not to matter, but if there’s certain areas that are hotbeds of hatecrimes and they do or don’t report I’m sure that could shift the data some.
• We don’t know the consistency of reporting.  I think we can all tell that people are becoming more sensitive/aware to these issues as time is going on.  It’s possible that people are reporting it differently as time goes on, but I don’t know how you would be able to prove it either way.
• I’m not sure how close the above is to accurate in terms of total quantities, since you can’t really tell who’s reporting and there’s multiple overlapping agencies including things like college campus police, etc.  I think you can compare ratios between years though.