OT: Jussie Smollett

@"greediron" said: There should be warning labels for this.  Liberal Media, do not run with intersectionality.  They didn't listen and have skewered themselves bad in the Smollett and Covington cases.

Any incident that can validate it ensures viewers, votes and their job.

@"MaroonBells" said:

I saw your list of 19. Half of them were pranks, which I wouldn't consider the same thing. So out of the more than 13,000 recorded incidents in the US in last two years, sounds like a handful are fake. But yeah, let's focus on THAT and not the hate crimes that outnumber the fakes 1300 to 1. 

Poor Robert Byrd. He gets name dropped by more Republicans than Ayn Rand. Yes, Byrd was a racist. There was also a supreme court justice in the Klan. There were rumors Warren Harding was. I don' know why Byrd remained with the Dems after the Civil Rights Act and the Southern Strategy turned all of his friends into Republicans. I suspect out of party loyalty.  

I don't know if Trump is a racist. I don't know him personally and I can't see what's in his heart. But he does know that white nationalists everywhere absolutely adore him. And instead of discouraging that, he prods it. 

What a $&()*%^$!! idiot.  Whatever criminal charges Smollett ends up facing from this, he should get the maximum just for how much harder his dumbass hoax made it for real victims to be believed.

What's disturbing to me in this "new age" of enlightenment, is the fallacy ( accepted as FACT) that "racist = white hates dark"

I grew up in the Bronx. White/Black/Hispanic/Asian/Catholic/Jewish/Protestant/Buddhist. It was a very diverse area. 

 I KNOW from first hand experience that racial/ethnic/religious bias exists EVERYWHERE ON THE PLANET.

 Racism is certainly is not an invention of White Americans, and as a "whitey", the son of Irish (LEGAL) immigrants who came here as teenagers in 1949 (father) and 1953 (mother), I can state from ACTUAL experience, ALL races, creeds, colors have "racists".Pop gained citizen
ship by serving 2 years in the Army, Mom by going through a lengthy process that finally ended in 1975. 

I am offended by not only this horseshit "white privilege" crap, but also this country's obsession with the British "Royal" family, aka the richest welfare recipients in the history of the world. American's are sooooo quick to sympathize with the Black community, but turn a blind eye to the horrific human rights history of "great" Britain...as recently as the 1900's. Wanna know who created "Concentration Camps"? The British during the Boer War. 

But back on topic....This jackass will get off with a slap on the wrist and be lauded as yet another "social justice warrior". Is that fair? Of course not. But life ain't fair. If it were, both Bud Grant and Marv Levy would have at least 1 SB championship and Barry Switzer and Jon Gruden would have NONE. 

Not that I want to wade in these waters. However hate does exist. There's no need to manufacture it. What this guy did was diminish the real hate. So that said. I've never been a supporter of "hate crime" laws. They reclassify already existing anger. To what point? Two guys get into a fight. They happen to be of different ethnicity. In heat words are exchanged. That can get reclassified. Oh there was hate going on but most fights do. So what's the point. If someone shoots up a church or temple it's mass murder. Reclassification only gives credit to the hate. We have issues in this country. The media on both sides fuel it. Conservative media funnels every rape/murder by illegals to their front page. Tell their local affiliates, send us all your  stories like this. Every cop killed every rape...ect. The liberal media does the same. Send us every cop beating. Every video of what appears to be an unwarranted shooting. We will run our agenda.
It's why I've never been less "informed" in my life. It's why I never turn on the news. It's why I can't get past the titles and actually read any of these articles. The less I'm " informed" the better I feel and probably better for it.
This guy just handed a huge weapon to one side. That's not what's important here. The reasons both sides of the media work so hard to find these "credible" stories is the real news here. 

How about the inequality of the allegations?  If a minority gang jumps a white person it's a mugging, robbery, or rape what ever,  but if it's a white gang on a minority...hate crime.

How about we strip back the bull shit and get the race allegations out of common everyday matters and try to get on with healing this fractured country?

As far as this piece of shit...his crime is the definition of racially motivated crime and should receive a more severe punishment than simply filing a false police report.

@"pumpf" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

I saw your list of 19. Half of them were pranks, which I wouldn't consider the same thing. So out of the more than 13,000 recorded incidents in the US in last two years, sounds like a handful are fake. But yeah, let's focus on THAT and not the hate crimes that outnumber the fakes 1300 to 1. 

Poor Robert Byrd. He gets name dropped by more Republicans than Ayn Rand. Yes, Byrd was a racist. There was also a supreme court justice in the Klan. There were rumors Warren Harding was. I don' know why Byrd remained with the Dems after the Civil Rights Act and the Southern Strategy turned all of his friends into Republicans. I suspect out of party loyalty.  

I don't know if Trump is a racist. I don't know him personally and I can't see what's in his heart. But he does know that white nationalists everywhere absolutely adore him. And instead of discouraging that, he prods it. 

I'd like to know where you got your figures- because I genuinely am interested in finding out how many "real" attacks (however they are defined) have taken place recently.

@"Purple Haze" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"kahsmick" said:  This is just another in a long run of recent staged Hate Crimes.  Ever since they formed the KKK, Racism has been a successful wedge issue for Democrats to gain influence, power and control. 

 They arent just going to give up on trying to intimidate, and deceive the public just because  normal people are ending these phony tropes with goodwill, jobs and common sense.

He will now be elevated to sainthood by The Left for Bravery and Feels -  as is tradition.

Covington Kids are suing WaPo for $250 million for having their lives, school and reputations wrecked over absolutely nothing too.

Fake News Kills

Jesus, right-wing conspiracy much?

It may not be as much of a conspiracy as you think.  Since Nov of 2016 there have been at least 19 fake hate crimes reported and investigated.  The purpose of these crimes were to show how racist america has become under Trump.  The thing is, up until Trump won the White House I cannot remember ANYTHING ever being reported about him being the racist homophobe that he is made out to be.  This latest case is a perfect example of the conspiracy possibility.  What was the most powerful part of this story as it was reported.  "This is MAGA Country".  He wanted people to believe is was a racist,redneck Trump supporter (because that is who ALL Trump supporters are you know) to make his attack more believable.  He also could have pulled it off if this attack were to have taken place in say Texas or somewhere in the south.  But he wanted everyone to believe it was MAGA rednecks that did it in Chicago where %83 of the people in Chicago voted for Hillary and have a super liberal mayor.  The ward the attack took place voted 79% for Hillary.  The wards surrounding the area voted 80%-93% Hillary.  Not much room for MAGA country there.  Is this a right wing consiracy ?  Probobly not, but its hard to not think about it when you look back at past republican candidates and see how the democrats first line of attack is the politics of personal destruction. it doesnt matter if Trump never muttered a racist word before becoming president because social media and the looney left are making sure he is now the biggest racist to ever serve this country and our elected democrats sit back and reap the benefits of the phony accusations.  Don't believe it, answer me this.  How many democrats condemned and asked for the resignation of Robert Byrd from the U.S. Senate.  Byrd was the Exulted Cyclops of the local KKK chapter in WV.  This is one of his letters he wrote. 
In December 1944, Byrd wrote to segregationist Mississippi Senator Theodore G. Bilbo:

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds. 
 This is a man who served in the U.S. Senate for 51 years until he died there.  Not only did democrats re elect him over and over and over again, they pushed him around the capitol grounds in his wheel chair to meetings and hearings. If the democrats were really the champions of ridding the world of racism the Byrd would have been kicked out of the Senate decades ago. 

@"suncoastvike" said: Not that I want to wade in these waters. However hate does exist. There's no need to manufacture it. What this guy did was diminish the real hate. So that said. I've never been a supporter of "hate crime" laws. They reclassify already existing anger. To what point? Two guys get into a fight. They happen to be of different ethnicity. In heat words are exchanged. That can get reclassified. Oh there was hate going on but most fights do. So what's the point. If someone shoots up a church or temple it's mass murder. Reclassification only gives credit to the hate. We have issues in this country. The media on both sides fuel it. Conservative media funnels every rape/murder by illegals to their front page. Tell their local affiliates, send us all your  stories like this. Every cop killed every rape...ect. The liberal media does the same. Send us every cop beating. Every video of what appears to be an unwarranted shooting. We will run our agenda. It's why I've never been less "informed" in my life. It's why I never turn on the news. It's why I can't get past the titles and actually read any of these articles. The less I'm " informed" the better I feel and probably better for it. This guy just handed a huge weapon to one side. That's not what's important here. The reasons both sides of the media work so hard to find these "credible" stories is the real news here. 

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said: Not that I want to wade in these waters. However hate does exist. There's no need to manufacture it. What this guy did was diminish the real hate. So that said. I've never been a supporter of "hate crime" laws. They reclassify already existing anger. To what point? Two guys get into a fight. They happen to be of different ethnicity. In heat words are exchanged. That can get reclassified. Oh there was hate going on but most fights do. So what's the point. If someone shoots up a church or temple it's mass murder. Reclassification only gives credit to the hate. We have issues in this country. The media on both sides fuel it. Conservative media funnels every rape/murder by illegals to their front page. Tell their local affiliates, send us all your  stories like this. Every cop killed every rape...ect. The liberal media does the same. Send us every cop beating. Every video of what appears to be an unwarranted shooting. We will run our agenda. It's why I've never been less "informed" in my life. It's why I never turn on the news. It's why I can't get past the titles and actually read any of these articles. The less I'm " informed" the better I feel and probably better for it. This guy just handed a huge weapon to one side. That's not what's important here. The reasons both sides of the media work so hard to find these "credible" stories is the real news here. 

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

Violence of any kind whether we name it or not does.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

If you are targeting a group based on race, religion or just politics that is terrorism. That should he handled at the Federal level. As you say already has higher consequences because of that. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said: Not that I want to wade in these waters. However hate does exist. There's no need to manufacture it. What this guy did was diminish the real hate. So that said. I've never been a supporter of "hate crime" laws. They reclassify already existing anger. To what point? Two guys get into a fight. They happen to be of different ethnicity. In heat words are exchanged. That can get reclassified. Oh there was hate going on but most fights do. So what's the point. If someone shoots up a church or temple it's mass murder. Reclassification only gives credit to the hate. We have issues in this country. The media on both sides fuel it. Conservative media funnels every rape/murder by illegals to their front page. Tell their local affiliates, send us all your  stories like this. Every cop killed every rape...ect. The liberal media does the same. Send us every cop beating. Every video of what appears to be an unwarranted shooting. We will run our agenda. It's why I've never been less "informed" in my life. It's why I never turn on the news. It's why I can't get past the titles and actually read any of these articles. The less I'm " informed" the better I feel and probably better for it. This guy just handed a huge weapon to one side. That's not what's important here. The reasons both sides of the media work so hard to find these "credible" stories is the real news here. 

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

Violence of any kind whether we name it or not does.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

If you are targeting a group based on race, religion or just politics that is terrorism. That should he handled at the Federal level. As you say already has higher consequences because of that. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

I never argue that it doesn't work reverse or otherwise. I believe it does work many times. It can be abused to by over zealous prosecutors. 
I just don't like things being named before they are tried in court.

I also don't like mandatory minimums. I like the facts and circumstances of each case to be desided at trial. I understand all these things are usually put in place because we don't like outcomes at trial or judges decisions. Bad judge remove him/her. Don't tie the hands of all judges. I for one believe most cases the judges and juries get them right. If there was aggregating circumstances of the guy being a racist. That can be handled at sentencing.

@"MaroonBells" said

@"suncoastvike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"suncoastvike" said: Not that I want to wade in these waters. However hate does exist. There's no need to manufacture it. What this guy did was diminish the real hate. So that said. I've never been a supporter of "hate crime" laws. They reclassify already existing anger. To what point? Two guys get into a fight. They happen to be of different ethnicity. In heat words are exchanged. That can get reclassified. Oh there was hate going on but most fights do. So what's the point. If someone shoots up a church or temple it's mass murder. Reclassification only gives credit to the hate. We have issues in this country. The media on both sides fuel it. Conservative media funnels every rape/murder by illegals to their front page. Tell their local affiliates, send us all your  stories like this. Every cop killed every rape...ect. The liberal media does the same. Send us every cop beating. Every video of what appears to be an unwarranted shooting. We will run our agenda. It's why I've never been less "informed" in my life. It's why I never turn on the news. It's why I can't get past the titles and actually read any of these articles. The less I'm " informed" the better I feel and probably better for it. This guy just handed a huge weapon to one side. That's not what's important here. The reasons both sides of the media work so hard to find these "credible" stories is the real news here. 

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

Violence of any kind whether we name it or not does.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

If you are targeting a group based on race, religion or just politics that is terrorism. That should he handled at the Federal level. As you say already has higher consequences because of that. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

I never argue that it doesn't work reverse or otherwise. I believe it does work many times. It can be abused to by over zealous prosecutors. 
I just don't like things being named before they are tried in court.

I also don't like mandatory minimums. I like the facts and circumstances of each case to be desided at trial. I understand all these things are usually put in place because we don't like outcomes at trial or judges decisions. Bad judge remove him/her. Don't tie the hands of all judges. I for one believe most cases the judges and juries get them right. If there was aggregating circumstances of the guy being a racist. That can be handled at sentencing.

Well I couldn't agree more with that. Mandatory mins is one of the biggest shit-fer-brains ideas in the history of this country. It came about because of "tough on crime" nonsense. Every case is different and if you're not allowing judges to consider nuances in each case, then what the hell are they there for?

Regarding your violence comment, I don't agree. Spontaneous violence that erupts as a result of road rage, or because of a sporting event, or a domestic dispute, doesn't have the same dangerous societal impact as violence that erupts due to hate of a particular group of people. 

Don't see anyone doubling down on his innocence and wanting elect him president.  

@"MaroonBells" said:

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

Alternate media was all over the details around this. The MSM was very silent.

It wasnt until TMZ, of all places, began running stories with police statements that the MSM was bothered to breathe any life into this story or the truth. TMZ basically confirmed what a lot of alt. news sites were reporting.

It bothers me that major news sources can sit on important information just to control the narrative. Its so crazy - for me it transcends a lot of important issues we all face because we can't actually address anything with this type of news coverage.

... your telling me no one for CNN, Fox News, ABC, CBS or NBC could be bothered to contact local police while this was developing? I doubt that when TMZ can...

Im sitting here wondering where this story would be if TMZ didnt run police quotes in an overvelous attempt to get in on celebrity gossip. Its almost as if MSM knew what the police were saying and didnt want to give them a national voice. Once the police got it through TMZ everything about this case changed. We went from an extended silence to an arrest real fast...

Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

@"medaille" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Fair post, so I will only take issue with your questioning the need for hate crime laws. The reason they have tougher consequences is because they target a group of people. They have impact on an entire community, an entire country if left unchecked.

For example, if I shoot someone because cut me off in traffic it doesn't impact the community or law enforcement as much as if I shot him because he's gay or black or Jewish or Muslim. Am I an extremist? Am I involved with some sort of group planning additional attacks? Are like-minded members of the community going to be inspired by what I did? It's a lot like terrorism. If someone blows up a building because he was fired that won't (nor should it) draw the same response from law enforcement as if he blew it up because he admires ISIS. The line is blurred. What Dylann Roof did. Was that a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Both maybe? Doesn't really matter. Both have higher consequences for the exact same reason. 

And those who argue that hate crimes don't work in reverse, they do. There was a group of black kids recently who were prosecuted for a hate crime after they beat up a white kid.

Just curious about your thought processes, do you view
Jussie Smollet’s crime as a hate crime, where he’s filled with hate for a group
and tried to attack that group of people with false accusations?  Is his accusations more or less threatening
than someone painting a swastika on a building?  This is a pretty big impact to the community and country.

@"minny65" said: Yea, I have heard more about this Smollet thing then the Coast Guard nut-job who was planning an attack.  I also haven't seen much media on the Voting fraud that took place in North Carolina.  The media does need to do a better job of reporting for sure!

Meanwhile, Coast Guard what nationalist who wanted to "kill every last person on earth" is back page stuff. 

Charles Barkley said if the guy wanted to get asaulted he should have just taken a walk in Liam Neeson’s neighborhood.  B)