Keenum

@"BarrNone55" said: The D completely shit the bed, and that's on Case? Wow...breath taking stupidity...

Nobody is putting it solely on Case it was a team loss and he is part of that-i.e. pick 6, lowest 3rd down conversion rate of the year, red zone turnovers, missed passes.   He hardly moved out of the pocket last night, was that game plan, him, or maybe defensive design?

Defense tackling and coverage breakdowns along with offensive turnovers sunk the ship.  It was uncanny how the defense would get Foles in 3rd and long and they would convert again and again, the Vikings would put themselves in 3rd and manageable repeatedly and fail.

@"comet52" said: Last night was maybe a silver lining, because it takes pressure off the front office to overpay Keenum or even commit to him.   Outside of the purple koolaid crowd, the limits to his game have been apparent for some time, and I say that while also appreciating what he's done and the fire and competitiveness he brought to the team this year.   But at the same, as I posted elsewhere, at least once a game he makes you close your eyes and pray that the wobbly wounded duck he just tossed up doesn't end up in the opponnent's hands or worse a pick 6.

If I were Spielman and the doctors assured me Bradfords knees were going to hold up, I'd target him as #1 and the future would be to see what Sloter can do.   I'd let Case go find his market whatever that is, and see if Teddy wants to be #2 at lower $ (or maybe force the tolling issue?  Probably not a great idea but possible?), though I think Teddy would probably rather find a desperate team to take cap friendly chance on him and his knees than be a backup.   I don't know how much Zimmer's love affair with Teddy enters in this either.

Regardless, the silver lining is that none of these three should cost top $ because of the question marks about all of them.

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"A1Janitor" said: It wasn't Zimmer who didn't contain the run.  It was EG.

He is a little overrated imo.  As is Hunter.  

Griffen has been playing with a foot injury for 6 weeks.  You will note that his sack total stopped about that point

@"medaille" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

@"A1Janitor" said: It wasn't Zimmer who didn't contain the run.  It was EG.

He is a little overrated imo.  As is Hunter.  

Griffen has been playing with a foot injury for 6 weeks.  You will note that his sack total stopped about that point

So what you’re saying is that we’ve had 6 weeks to figure
this out?

I was all in on the guy. He played with everything I love to watch. Guts, fire, and was just plain fun during the season.

I think the most important decision to be made on Keenum is this... if the Franchise Tag is $23M, can we get something better with that $23M? On the free agent market, what does $23M get us? Does $24 - $25M get us a significant upgrade?

$23M? Franchise tag? Come on, folks, his market price is dependent on other teams being willing to pay to try to take him away. Do you really think that is likely now? Fair or not, he just had his biggest exposure to the rest of the league - especially owners, who have to agree to big FA contracts - in the last two games, and I saw nothing that is going to make GMs and owners put Case Keenum high on their free agency lists. Besides, his only impressive stats are the wins he achieved with the Vikings, and an embarrassing playoff loss devalues those. His career-best season and he threw 22 TDs; his best isn't especially eye-catching.
REGRESSION TO THE MEAN: that's what everyone will be saying about Keenum now. History says, with a high degree of accuracy, that "out of nowhere" players go back to their former state.
I think we offer Keenum a 2-3 year deal for less than $15M each season, assuming the team doesn't decide Bridgewater or Bradford are preferable.
To me, Keenum's season leaves the team in a bad position for the future. He played well enough - in wins, at least - that we couldn't bench him. But due to that, we never found out what shape Bridgewater and Bradford are in. (It's very interesting to me that as soon as Bradford was healthy, the coaches demoted Bridgewater to 3rd-string...)
They had to stick with Keenum once he got hot, because his hot streak might have carried the team all the way. But it didn't, so they invested an entire season in a player who will probably never play as well again.

@"A1Janitor" said: It wasn't Zimmer who didn't contain the run.  It was EG.

He is a little overrated imo.  As is Hunter.  

@"Jor-El" said: $23M? Franchise tag? Come on, folks, his market price is dependent on other teams being willing to pay to try to take him away. Do you really think that is likely now? Fair or not, he just had his biggest exposure to the rest of the league - especially owners, who have to agree to big FA contracts - in the last two games, and I saw nothing that is going to make GMs and owners put Case Keenum high on their free agency lists. Besides, his only impressive stats are the wins he achieved with the Vikings, and an embarrassing playoff loss devalues those. His career-best season and he threw 22 TDs; his best isn't especially eye-catching. REGRESSION TO THE MEAN: that's what everyone will be saying about Keenum now. History says, with a high degree of accuracy, that "out of nowhere" players go back to their former state. I think we offer Keenum a 2-3 year deal for less than $15M each season, assuming the team doesn't decide Bridgewater or Bradford are preferable. To me, Keenum's season leaves the team in a bad position for the future. He played well enough - in wins, at least - that we couldn't bench him. But due to that, we never found out what shape Bridgewater and Bradford are in. (It's very interesting to me that as soon as Bradford was healthy, the coaches demoted Bridgewater to 3rd-string...) They had to stick with Keenum once he got hot, because his hot streak might have carried the team all the way. But it didn't, so they invested an entire season in a player who will probably never play as well again.

Jay Glazer noted before the game something about the Vikings franchising or transition tagging him. I just have a hard time with that. That money gets us a hell of a lot of QB.

@"A1Janitor" said: It wasn't Zimmer who didn't contain the run.  It was EG.

He is a little overrated imo.  As is Hunter.  

Griffen has been hurting and gave it all he had. He hasn't had that burst we all know and that foot was a major problem.

my biggest issue is if Griff was/is hurt to the point of being ineffective,  and we have this stacked DE room.... why werent his snaps limited much more than they were?   Griff is a damn good DE when healthy,  but arent our other guys better than a broken Griff?

@"JimmyinSD" said: my biggest issue is if Griff was/is hurt to the point of being ineffective,  and we have this stacked DE room.... why werent his snaps limited much more than they were?   Griff is a damn good DE when healthy,  but arent our other guys better than a broken Griff?

That said, you'd have thought maybe they play BROB over there more or even move Hunter and BROB to RDE as the backfill to Danielle.  

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: my biggest issue is if Griff was/is hurt to the point of being ineffective,  and we have this stacked DE room.... why werent his snaps limited much more than they were?   Griff is a damn good DE when healthy,  but arent our other guys better than a broken Griff?

I don't think so Jimmy and I'm not sure the DE room is as stacked as we would like to believe...

That said, you'd have thought maybe they play BROB over there more or even move Hunter and BROB to RDE as the backfill to Danielle.  

Plenty of blame to go around. This was a complete collapse of the entire team. Coaching, DL, OL, QB, DB, LB, poor tackling, poor play calls on both sides, bad decisions, players out of place, injuries. We were warned that teams who win in dramatic fashion often come out flat the next week. And because this was a total team collapse, focus might be the most likely culprit. 

It's just as foolish to hold Keenum blameless as it is to put all the blame on him. Vikings have a huge decision to make. Before yesterday's game, I would've given the odds of committing to Case at slightly above 50%. I would now put it below 50%. I don't think it goes down TOO much because his price just dropped dramatically--not just for us, but for all the other teams as well. 

This isn't just on him, but my fear all season was that he, like Cunningham 20 years ago, wasn't the purple messiah come down to take us to the promise land, but rather the sexy siren luring us away from our starter-led destiny and onto the rocky coast. I'm funny like that. Only difference now is that we didn't commit to him before the end of the year, which is a big, important difference as we enter into what should be 2 to 4 years of competing for a title.

We can now objectively assess the situation in the off season based on a dozen different factors: money, OC, health, film, etc. But we've GOT to get this QB decision right. I'm as curious as anyone else to see how it all shakes out.  

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: maybe if we scored points and stayed on the field longer then the defense just maybe wouldnt of given up so many points.

i dont care how good your D is but if theyre constantly on the field then thats on the offense.

@"Ilovebigtd's" said:

@"Sir Viking Bob VWO" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: maybe if we scored points and stayed on the field longer then the defense just maybe wouldnt of given up so many points.

i dont care how good your D is but if theyre constantly on the field then thats on the offense.

and you want to tout Teddy and his 31rst ranked passing offense as the future???  please..... 

yeah because teddy has always had a offense like this. 
bob sometimes i question your intelligence.

31st offense... mike wallace was our number receiver at one point.. let that sink in. our offensive line was the worst o line in the nfl.
along with norv turners 6 step drop backs mixed with a horrid o line = disaster.

even with that we still made the playoffs and were a missed fg away from advancing. 

this team finally has weapons for once. give teddy a chance. 

honestly man youre not so smart. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: my biggest issue is if Griff was/is hurt to the point of being ineffective,  and we have this stacked DE room.... why werent his snaps limited much more than they were?   Griff is a damn good DE when healthy,  but arent our other guys better than a broken Griff?

I don't think so Jimmy and I'm not sure the DE room is as stacked as we would like to believe...

That said, you'd have thought maybe they play BROB over there more or even move Hunter and BROB to RDE as the backfill to Danielle.  

those blaming Case Keenum, then who do we credit for the 13 wins he had (12 as a starter andvsaved our ass in Chicago)

@"Sir Viking Bob VWO" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said:

@"Sir Viking Bob VWO" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: maybe if we scored points and stayed on the field longer then the defense just maybe wouldnt of given up so many points.

i dont care how good your D is but if theyre constantly on the field then thats on the offense.

and you want to tout Teddy and his 31rst ranked passing offense as the future???  please..... 

yeah because teddy has always had a offense like this. 
bob sometimes i question your intelligence.

31st offense... mike wallace was our number receiver at one point.. let that sink in. our offensive line was the worst o line in the nfl.
along with norv turners 6 step drop backs mixed with a horrid o line = disaster.

even with that we still made the playoffs and were a missed fg away from advancing. 

this team finally has weapons for once. give teddy a chance. 

honestly man youre not so smart. 

AHHHHHHH  the Teddy excuse book version 1.0    Wallace went to Baltimore and a real QB throwing him the ball and had just under 1000 yards receiving i believe, Teddy couldn't get the ball in the same area code to him. 
Teddy's claim to fame was he won a comeback game in college that his team finished ranked 22nd or something like that.  He had zero Heisman votes and the the kid that came in after him is much better. If you want to keep crying about potential, then you should want to bring in Manziel  He had potential as well. Teddy is the most OVER RATED Viking of all time.  He has done absolutely nothing to be so enamored.  please dont tell me he led us to the playoffs in 2015, he didnt AP and the Defense did. I am so glad that you think you are much smarter than me and back it up with Teddy excuses instead actual facts. But carry on....

@"MaroonBells" said: Plenty of blame to go around. This was a complete collapse of the entire team. Coaching, DL, OL, QB, DB, LB, poor tackling, poor play calls on both sides, bad decisions, players out of place, injuries. We were warned that teams who win in dramatic fashion often come out flat the next week. And because this was a total team collapse, focus might be the most likely culprit. 

It's just as foolish to hold Keenum blameless as it is to put all the blame on him. Vikings have a huge decision to make. Before yesterday's game, I would've given the odds of committing to Case at slightly above 50%. I would now put it below 50%. I don't think it goes down TOO much because his price just dropped dramatically--not just for us, but for all the other teams as well. 

This isn't just on him, but my fear all season was that he, like Cunningham 20 years ago, wasn't the purple messiah come down to take us to the promise land, but rather the sexy siren luring us away from our starter-led destiny and onto the rocky coast. I'm funny like that. Only difference now is that we didn't commit to him before the end of the year, which is a big, important difference as we enter into what should be 2 to 4 years of competing for a title.

We can now objectively assess the situation in the off season based on a dozen different factors: money, OC, health, film, etc. But we've GOT to get this QB decision right. I'm as curious as anyone else to see how it all shakes out.  

I do think last night sways the Vikings more towards a franchise/transition tag with Keenum. There is a lot of risk in a mult-year deal that could handcuff the team if there is any sort of regression. $23M is a nice chunk of change, but it gives the Vikings flexibility moving forward.

Bypassing Teddy the last 2 weeks and making him inactive are telling.