Kirk in Minnesota long term?

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"bigbone62" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"bigbone62" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: I suspect when they extend KC, his $ will be less than Brady, Mahomes, Allen or Rogers...

But he deserves to be in the next tier. 

Brady has been playing for under 29 million...I wish we could get Kirk to see the benefit of that for him.

I'm sure Cousins and every player wished they were married to a supermodel worth $400 million. Alas just Brady, so the comparison is brutal.  Easy to take way less when your wife pulls  tens of millions more in annual salary than you. 

kirk has made 160 million in his career.... does it really fucking matter at that point?  if this is about the money for kirk at this point... I think that would make the decision even that much easier to move on from him.

And there it is, the painfully transparent jealous fan whining about "how much is enough" post. He's paid exactly what the market has dictated he be paid. If you arent getting paid what your profession dictates, you may want to take a look at the guy representing you at pay bump time.

If you are getting paid what you're worth. I sure hope you don't have know it alls who've never done your job obsessing about you online. Simply because you're better off financially and can do something they never could. 

Simply because you or I will never sniff that amount of money doesn't mean he, or any athlete doesnt deserve every penny they make.  Because NCAAF and NFL chew these guys up and spit them out to make insane profits. 

You have absolutely no clue what these guys give up. Family,  physical and mental health, substance abuse issues among much more. All a direct result of playing a game for your entertainment. I'm sure if you could "play the game for free" you would. Until you've actually played and realize it's not the fantasyland version Joe Sixpack thinks it is.

I said as much last week. Nothing screams tone deaf more than the 'how much money is enough' stuff from fans. Nonsensical.

Then why did Brady play for less then?  

Hard to say....

Take a look at the D rankings for those SB winning teams. I'll wait.

So if your QB  leaves a little meat on the bone other dogs get to eat too?  I didn't actually go look at each sb winning year, just read a quick note that Brady had top Ds almost every year and 8 of the last 10 SB winners had a top 10 D.  Perhaps this is showing why overpaying for a QB,  or paying "market price "  isn't a prudent use of cap dollars.  Yes you need good QB play,  but not if it makes the rest of the team weaker in the process.  Maybe thats why the guys perennially at the top in money like rogers, Ryan, and a few other have so little to show for it compared to Discount Tom and the teams that were able to draft a quality rookie like KC, and some of the others that are poised to make the jump, at least until they have to pay "market price"

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"bigbone62" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"bigbone62" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: I suspect when they extend KC, his $ will be less than Brady, Mahomes, Allen or Rogers...

But he deserves to be in the next tier. 

Brady has been playing for under 29 million...I wish we could get Kirk to see the benefit of that for him.

I'm sure Cousins and every player wished they were married to a supermodel worth $400 million. Alas just Brady, so the comparison is brutal.  Easy to take way less when your wife pulls  tens of millions more in annual salary than you. 

kirk has made 160 million in his career.... does it really fucking matter at that point?  if this is about the money for kirk at this point... I think that would make the decision even that much easier to move on from him.

And there it is, the painfully transparent jealous fan whining about "how much is enough" post. He's paid exactly what the market has dictated he be paid. If you arent getting paid what your profession dictates, you may want to take a look at the guy representing you at pay bump time.

If you are getting paid what you're worth. I sure hope you don't have know it alls who've never done your job obsessing about you online. Simply because you're better off financially and can do something they never could. 

Simply because you or I will never sniff that amount of money doesn't mean he, or any athlete doesnt deserve every penny they make.  Because NCAAF and NFL chew these guys up and spit them out to make insane profits. 

You have absolutely no clue what these guys give up. Family,  physical and mental health, substance abuse issues among much more. All a direct result of playing a game for your entertainment. I'm sure if you could "play the game for free" you would. Until you've actually played and realize it's not the fantasyland version Joe Sixpack thinks it is.

I said as much last week. Nothing screams tone deaf more than the 'how much money is enough' stuff from fans. Nonsensical.

Then why did Brady play for less then?  

Hard to say....

Take a look at the D rankings for those SB winning teams. I'll wait.

So if your QB  leaves a little meat on the bone other dogs get to eat too?  I didn't actually go look at each sb winning year, just read a quick note that Brady had top Ds almost every year and 8 of the last 10 SB winners had a top 10 D.  Perhaps this is showing why overpaying for a QB,  or paying "market price "  isn't a prudent use of cap dollars.  Yes you need good QB play,  but not if it makes the rest of the team weaker in the process.  Maybe thats why the guys perennially at the top in money like rogers, Ryan, and a few other have so little to show for it compared to Discount Tom and the teams that were able to draft a quality rookie like KC, and some of the others that are poised to make the jump, at least until they have to pay "market price"

Again, 9th in D spending at the start of 2021. 

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"MarkSP18" said: Teams that Cousins has been the starter for have made the playoffs 2 times in 7 years and never consecutively.  But there are always excuses.

The offensive line, the defense, the coaching, the scheme, etc.

At the end of the day, the playoff appearances is on his resume forever.

It would be asinine for the current regime to invest multiple additional years in this dude that for one reason or another, doesn't get his team to the playoffs.

I think that with the current draft and the lack of free agents that they should let him play it out.

They can absorb the 45M cap hit or ask him to add one void year to move some dead money to 2023.

If he is able to get his team to the playoffs, then they can talk extension in 2023.

If not, then they'll have tons of cap space and can figure it out.

The last two men who invested a ton of cap space and multiple years in this QB got fired.

But many Vikings fans want to continue to invest in this QB and expect that the team is going to improve the pass rush, corners, run defense, and interior offensive line pass blocking this year in free agency and the draft.

Good luck with all of that.

I am hoping and praying that this team can just get into the freaking playoffs in 2022.

Some considerations:

When an o-line is typically in the bottom quarter of the league rankings, that's no longer an excuse, it's a reason.  A play can't develop if the defense lives in the backfield, something functional fans understand and others strangely find unimportant.  This is beyond baffling.

Some of the Cousins Hate Mafia like to point to the Bengals' bad line as an excuse to hate out on Cousins, yet it took a mis-called "fumble" for them to beat us...and that line ultimately cost Cincy the big game.

Similarly, when the defense is rated in the same region as the Leslie Frazier era...and our coach is a "defensive guru" who has gotten to do a LOT of defensive player shopping/coaching during his tenure...that team isn't going to the postseason.  That's a helluva reason.  If you require clarification, re-watch the end of the loss to Detroit, or go back a season to Kamara running for 6 TDs through Zimmer's defense.

REASONS.

The team gets itself to the playoffs, not one dude.  That said:

The infamous cap hit came from him allowing him to restructure some of his money away from 2020, to help the team then.  That barely gets mentioned, because haters are...well, themselves.

Do they ever wonder why we could never seem to keep OCs, or accurate kickers...or build a consistent OL around our QBs?  Keenum lucked out, but his history before and after 2017 shows that season to be a one-off.  Philly kinda nailed that down.

Regarding our consistently productive, consistently under center, dork of a QB?

He's not perfect, and he's actually a mystery to me in some ways.  In Washington, he was on a team with known bipolar ownership and was treated like crap because they'd been all-in on RGIII.  With Minnesota, the OL has been rated as junk all 4 years, the defense has declined, and the head coach has been increasingly proven to be both obsolete and a petulant little jerk.  I don't actually know what he'll look like with an offensively-effective coaching staff, real support from same, and more allowances to do things like "audible" and have input on plays, etc.

The entire team, and the new staff, are basically auditioning this season.  I'd prefer, for cap reasons, for them to find an extension that gives both financial relief and continuity that would be a breath of fresh air after the recent mess.

It reads as if you are trying to call me a hater.  I do not post here much after leaving Purple Thoughts but this is a good reason as to why.

Here is a little silly off season plan I wrote for the Daily Norseman back in 2018 BEFORE the Vikings signed Cousins.  Fans there were saying the team could not afford him and wanted to show that they could.   I was a fan of the initial signing.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/2/8/16993704/vikings-off-season-plan-qb-edition

I disagree 100% about him allowing a restructure. It was an extension plain and simple. The team did not need the 10M in cap savings as they proved it when they traded for Yannick Ngakoue and then traded him away 7 weeks (or so) into the season while paying Yannick 7M in that time frame.

A person does not have to be hater to believe the team should move on from this QB.

Paul Allen was talking with Schefter and said "98.8% chance" that Kirk is the Vikings QB next year.

— Skol Cole (@SkolSmith) March 3, 2022

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/SkolSmith/status/1499418768455487490?s=20&t=DBOVZtX2b_Ves35nUNijnA

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/SkolSmith/status/1499418768455487490?s=20&t=DBOVZtX2b_Ves35nUNijnA

Of course. NOBODY is trading for Cousins.....and the Vikings want to keep him. Its a complete non-story and always has been. 

@"JustinTime18™" said: At what point is our record reflective of the horse shit defense? At what point do we look at the history of drafting a QB high is no guarantee for success?

This isn't hard, folks.

It's gotten so dumb.  Cousins is a good QB, but he doesn't do well extending plays and his situational football leaves a lot to be desired. His short-term guaranteed contract demands also don't provide as much cap relief as if he did a longer deal that still paid him as much in the first 3 years as what he wants, but let's is spread out the cap hit over let's say 5 years.  All that certainly factors into the decision on what to do moving forward.

However, looking at this team and where the young core talent is...  It's basically all on the offensive side of the ball...  Jefferson, Cook, Irv, Darrisaw, O'Neill, Cleveland...  if we want to maximize that core right away, it means rolling with Kirk for at least one more season.  You know the team is also thinking about team dynamics and how likely it would be to extend Jefferson in another year or two...  does he want to go through the growing pains of a young QB when his career is just starting to take off?

If it were my decision, I'd let Kirk play out this season if he was unwilling to do a long-term deal that helps provide some cap relief.  Give O'Connell the freedom to pick his QB moving forward...  maybe that's Kirk or maybe it's not. 

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/SkolSmith/status/1499418768455487490?s=20&t=DBOVZtX2b_Ves35nUNijnA

Of course. NOBODY is trading for Cousins.....and the Vikings want to keep him. Its a complete non-story and always has been. 

@"Knucklehead" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: https://twitter.com/SkolSmith/status/1499418768455487490?s=20&t=DBOVZtX2b_Ves35nUNijnA

Of course. NOBODY is trading for Cousins.....and the Vikings want to keep him. Its a complete non-story and always has been. 

Although true that the Vikes want to keep him, it's doubtful that they want to keep him under his present contract. While they could just let him play out this last season, doing so would hamper their ability to add FA's to shore up the roster in other areas, especially the defense. So they may want to keep him, but without a contract extension that's unlikely to happen.

As far as nobody willing to trade for KC, simple supply/demand dictates otherwise. There's probably 9 teams that are looking to upgrade their starting QB. It's apparent that none of the QBs available in this draft can step in as Day 1 starters. Looking at the QBs who will be available:

Garapolo
Trubisky
Jameis
Mariota

Which one would you take over KC? Now, a team trading for him would have to be willing to extend his contract at market rate which eliminates most of those 9 teams. But, that still leaves 2 or 3 that could make it happen.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

There's clearly a difference, going all the way back to one guy drafted first overall while the other was a fourth round project.

Regardless, my concern is KOC/KAM betting their new careers on Kirk.  He is not worth that big of a bet imo.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

There's clearly a difference, going all the way back to one guy drafted first overall while the other was a fourth round project.

Regardless, my concern is KOC/KAM betting their new careers on Kirk.  He is not worth that big of a bet imo.

But their choices are KC, a draft pick not ready to play or one of: Mannion, Mond, Jameis, Trubisky or Mariota.

That last option feels like less than purgatory to me.  

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

There's clearly a difference, going all the way back to one guy drafted first overall while the other was a fourth round project.

Regardless, my concern is KOC/KAM betting their new careers on Kirk.  He is not worth that big of a bet imo.

But their choices are KC, a draft pick not ready to play or one of: Mannion, Mond, Jameis, Trubisky or Mariota.

That last option feels like less than purgatory to me.  

I think there is a fine line they can try to thread by keeping Kirk and finding his replacement. There is the short-term and the long-term view and to your point not many "great" alternatives. 

In my mind the worst case scenario is you give up Kirk via trade without a known commodity to replace him. It just doesn't make sense. The fans will clamor "draft a franchise guy". Let me be blunt for a second, the chance you ultimately draft someone better than Kirk is like 20% or less. You should try but its no guarantee. 

The second worse case scenario is they simply throw their arms up in the air and say "well I guess we need to give Kirk whatever he wants". That really does you no good either since he wants >$40M a year fully guaranteed, again. It just doesn't allow you to spread the cap hits out the way you really need to for success. 

My best guess is that they look into drafting a QB this or next year. But they'll allow Kirk to play out the last year of his deal at $45M and spread the cap impact out a bit. You need to see Kirk in O'Connells offense before you give up on him. But I don't think you want to commit either. Play out the year and see where you are at. If you draft a QB, you can balance Kirk against a known alternative vs. the unknown. If you don't, well you have a better basis to really say if Kirk is or isn't the long-term QB. Its just easier to sign up for $40+M/yr with some success under the new coach. You run the risk of him going to free agency but if the Vikings will pay market rate a year from now there isn't much additional leverage to gain in that for Kirk. 

@"Geoff Nichols" Let's say we add a couple voidable years to the current contract to see what Cousins can do in KOC's scheme without making a long term commitment. How do those voidable years impact the ability to sign a new deal? Do the voided years accelerate into 2023? 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Riphawkins" said:

@"bigbone62" said: From 2015 which was Cousins first year as the full time starter to 2020, Stafford's last year in Detroit here are their numbers. Pretty obvious why the comparison. Obvious if you are going off of real things and not clichés ole football coaches use that is. Numbers that are bolded are categories they bested the other QB in. 

Stafford
Games: 88
W-L: 39-48-1
Comp %:65.6
Passing Yards: 23,395
Rushing Yards: 713
Total Yards: 24,108
QB Rating: 96.2
Passing TDs: 151
Rushing TDs: 3
Total TDs: 154
INT’s: 59
Fumbles Lost: 3
Total Turnovers:62
Turnover Differential: +92

Playoffs: 0-1

Cousins

Games: 95

W-L: 49-44-2

Comp %: 68

Passing Yards: 25,342

Rushing Yards: 665

Total Yards: 26,007

QB Rating: 100.5

Passing TD’s: 172

Rushing TD’S: 16

Total TD’s 188

INT’s: 65

Fumbles Lost: 5

Total Turnovers: 70

Turnover Differential: +118

Playoffs: 1-2

Looks like Cousins is better, and I’m not being a smart ass.

Watched a couple of Rams games this year and Stafford didn’t look great, but that throw near the end of the game in Tampa Bay was a thing of beauty. 
Cousins can make that throw.

I would be careful comparing Stafford to Cousins, its an easy comparison based on the stats/number of year in the league. At the end of the day they both get from point A to point B but do it in very different ways. 

Kirk is more methodical while Stafford is much more aggressive and opportunistic. Physically speaking, Kirk can make all the throws Stafford game. But when it matters most Kirk's stats on his first read are good while it all falls apart once he gets to his second and third read. Stafford is equally as good through his third ready. All that means is he's better when the play breaks down. The more meaningful difference is when you look at 3rd and moderate scenarios. Kirk more often than not throws short of the sticks. Stafford more often throws it beyond the sticks by 5 yards. Point there is that although Stafford throws more INTs, he's attempting more difficult throws when it actually matters. 

So to get back to the throw against TB. Yes, Kirk can make that throw. But he is never attempting it. 

There's clearly a difference, going all the way back to one guy drafted first overall while the other was a fourth round project.

Regardless, my concern is KOC/KAM betting their new careers on Kirk.  He is not worth that big of a bet imo.

But their choices are KC, a draft pick not ready to play or one of: Mannion, Mond, Jameis, Trubisky or Mariota.

That last option feels like less than purgatory to me.  

I think there is a fine line they can try to thread by keeping Kirk and finding his replacement. There is the short-term and the long-term view and to your point not many "great" alternatives. 

In my mind the worst case scenario is you give up Kirk via trade without a known commodity to replace him. It just doesn't make sense. The fans will clamor "draft a franchise guy". Let me be blunt for a second, the chance you ultimately draft someone better than Kirk is like 20% or less. You should try but its no guarantee. 

The second worse case scenario is they simply throw their arms up in the air and say "well I guess we need to give Kirk whatever he wants". That really does you no good either since he wants >$40M a year fully guaranteed, again. It just doesn't allow you to spread the cap hits out the way you really need to for success. 

My best guess is that they look into drafting a QB this or next year. But they'll allow Kirk to play out the last year of his deal at $45M and spread the cap impact out a bit. You need to see Kirk in O'Connells offense before you give up on him. But I don't think you want to commit either. Play out the year and see where you are at. If you draft a QB, you can balance Kirk against a known alternative vs. the unknown. If you don't, well you have a better basis to really say if Kirk is or isn't the long-term QB. Its just easier to sign up for $40+M/yr with some success under the new coach. You run the risk of him going to free agency but if the Vikings will pay market rate a year from now there isn't much additional leverage to gain in that for Kirk. 

I hate the notion of letting him play out the contract and walking with no compensation at all at the end of 22.  what is his market in terms of picks in your opinion?  There are lots of speculation, but what are we really talking about here?

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

  

I think there is a fine line they can try to thread by keeping Kirk and finding his replacement. There is the short-term and the long-term view and to your point not many "great" alternatives. 

In my mind the worst case scenario is you give up Kirk via trade without a known commodity to replace him. It just doesn't make sense. The fans will clamor "draft a franchise guy". Let me be blunt for a second, the chance you ultimately draft someone better than Kirk is like 20% or less. You should try but its no guarantee. 

The second worse case scenario is they simply throw their arms up in the air and say "well I guess we need to give Kirk whatever he wants". That really does you no good either since he wants >$40M a year fully guaranteed, again. It just doesn't allow you to spread the cap hits out the way you really need to for success. 

My best guess is that they look into drafting a QB this or next year. But they'll allow Kirk to play out the last year of his deal at $45M and spread the cap impact out a bit. You need to see Kirk in O'Connells offense before you give up on him. But I don't think you want to commit either. Play out the year and see where you are at. If you draft a QB, you can balance Kirk against a known alternative vs. the unknown. If you don't, well you have a better basis to really say if Kirk is or isn't the long-term QB. Its just easier to sign up for $40+M/yr with some success under the new coach. You run the risk of him going to free agency but if the Vikings will pay market rate a year from now there isn't much additional leverage to gain in that for Kirk. 

I hate the notion of letting him play out the contract and walking with no compensation at all at the end of 22.  what is his market in terms of picks in your opinion?  There are lots of speculation, but what are we really talking about here?

That would drive me crazy as well. The Vikings need to make him an extension offer they are comfortable with moving forward that's going to give then some cap flexibility to improve the roster. If Cousins declines and wants more than offered....then it's in the best interest for the team to trade him now and not risk him leaving in free agency for nothing. Because then we are screwed and probably would have won enough games where it puts us out of reach of next year's QB talent pool. 

I'd move him, and move him now. Take whatever draft picks we get plus the cap savings and rebuild this team. Roll with Mond for a year or whoever else we get in return as part of the trade to see if there is anything there moving forward, and if there isn't, you have probably lost enough games to where the team is drafting in the top 10 next season and can land one of those elite QB prospects. 

Quenstion;

Would you rather have as an example, Cousins on a high dollar extension for three more years...or would you rather trade him and acquire an extra top 20 first round pick this year, an extra high draft pick next year (possible 1st), and say CJ Stroud on a rookie deal that we'd draft with our own top 10 pick plus all the cap savings we'd have moving off Cousins contract? I'd take the latter option every day of the week. That's the smart play here and building this thing for the long term. Not strapping our salary cap over the next three or four years on QB in his mid 30's who isn't considered an elite player at his position. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

That would drive me crazy as well. The Vikings need to make him an extension offer they are comfortable with moving forward that's going to give then some cap flexibility to improve the roster. If Cousins declines and wants more than offered....then it's in the best interest for the team to trade him now and not risk him leaving in free agency for nothing. Because then we are screwed and probably would have won enough games where it puts us out of reach of next year's QB talent pool. 

I'd move him, and move him now. Take whatever draft picks we get plus the cap savings and rebuild this team. Roll with Mond for a year or whoever else we get in return as part of the trade to see if there is anything there moving forward, and if there isn't, you have probably lost enough games to where the team is drafting in the top 10 next season and can land one of those elite QB prospects. 

Quenstion;

Would you rather have as an example, Cousins on a high dollar extension for three more years...or would you rather trade him and acquire an extra top 20 first round pick this year, an extra high draft pick next year (possible 1st), and say CJ Stroud on a rookie deal that we'd draft with our own top 10 pick plus all the cap savings we'd have moving off Cousins contract? I'd take the latter option every day of the week. That's the smart play here and building this thing for the long term. Not strapping our salary cap over the next three or four years on QB in his mid 30's who isn't considered an elite player at his position. 

if Kirk would play for around 14% of the cap ( all in including bonuses and shit per year) ,  I think we could likely do some good with that and really kick ass with him as the QB for the next few years,  we would still need to be preparing for the future,  but it would really take the pressure off the new GM and HC to have that position solved for at least 3-4 years.  

the thing is,  all positions are going to want their slice of that new cap money, every position is going to want to reset their positional cap marks, so the notion that our cap situation will improve and we will be able handle KC at 40+ like he wants as well as rebuild the D and IOL enough to be competitive over the term of his new contract is IMO unlikely.  

@"JustinTime18™" said: @"Geoff Nichols" Let's say we add a couple voidable years to the current contract to see what Cousins can do in KOC's scheme without making a long term commitment. How do those voidable years impact the ability to sign a new deal? Do the voided years accelerate into 2023?