Kirk in Minnesota long term?

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

@"Zanary" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

I just don't know what's less of a risk, honestly:

Developing any young QB is, statistically, more likely to fail than not...which is why there are so few real blue-chip QBs.

Trading/acquiring other veterans...well, that's "safer", but how reliable are they in terms of playing time, productivity, and are they good in your locker room?

"Hero Shot" deals for big-splash QBs?  Umm...Watson's got to be some degree of a creep who went 4-12 most recently, Murray kind of wilts as games mean more, Wilson has shown to be vulnerable behind a bad line, so...who?

I always want a promising kid on the roster, and I'd love to see a draft pick go from practice squad to hoisting a Lombardi for us...but, right now, we have a group that can put up over 30 passing TDs and over 4200 air yards in s**t conditions...proven, repeatedly.

I definitely think it's a lesser risk to give them some time in a supportive system.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: He is 33, so what 3 or 4 more years? Are they going to a five year deal with voidable years and restructure money to bonuses to help? I don't know, we'll see I guess. But I still want them developing a qb of the future.

Next year is the draft pool to dip a toe into. There's 4-5 prospects worth a shot. Plus another handful of guys who could jump up a tier.

Patience required.

I'd feel much better drafting a guy in '23, knowing Cousins is our QB for a few more years, and knowing we can give the kid some time to develop. At least a year. If he turns out, you can always trade Cousins then.  

After the top two, I'm really starting to like Levis, Van Dyke, and Richardson on the next tier. Hopefully by the end on 2022, they are all on par. Levis is the most intriguing to me. Cannon arm, size, can run, prototypical size.  By next fall, he might be the #2 guy. 

Wow, just watched Levis. I haven't watched much of the the 21 class, but this is the best looking QB I've seen all year. Got a quick, 3/4-arm release. Like Mahomes, he can throw like a shortstop when he needs to. Has Brady-like composure. Runs like Elway. I'm smitten. Do I really have to wait a year?

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: He is 33, so what 3 or 4 more years? Are they going to a five year deal with voidable years and restructure money to bonuses to help? I don't know, we'll see I guess. But I still want them developing a qb of the future.

Next year is the draft pool to dip a toe into. There's 4-5 prospects worth a shot. Plus another handful of guys who could jump up a tier.

Patience required.

I'd feel much better drafting a guy in '23, knowing Cousins is our QB for a few more years, and knowing we can give the kid some time to develop. At least a year. If he turns out, you can always trade Cousins then.  

After the top two, I'm really starting to like Levis, Van Dyke, and Richardson on the next tier. Hopefully by the end on 2022, they are all on par. Levis is the most intriguing to me. Cannon arm, size, can run, prototypical size.  By next fall, he might be the #2 guy. 

Wow, just watched Levis. I haven't watched much of the the 21 class, but this is the best looking QB I've seen all year. Got a quick, 3/4-arm release. Like Mahomes, he can throw like a shortstop when he needs to. Has Brady-like composure. Runs like Elway. I'm smitten. Do I really have to wait a year?

@"pattersaur" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year. 

4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.

I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I don't see a guy who has coached Cousins for 3 years thinking he is the long term solution for this team.  I would be surprised if he is the starter this year, I think they either make a trade or draft someone in the first round.  

Well...just an fyi. No team in the NFL would trade a perfectly capable QB in March hoping to land their starter at the end of April. Just would never happen. 

Vikings will either keep Cousins or trade him for a bridge and some picks. Even that is becoming less and less likely IMO. 

I get it. He was brought in to be the missing piece. After 4 years, call me skeptical. I realize the defense has been bad the last couple years. I realize the offensive line has been lacking. I've never seen so many excuses for one player before. It seems it's never his fault.
4 years of history tell me he will finish about .500 year in and year out and produce decent statistics. But he can't win the superbowl because winning isn't a QB stat.
The decision to bring him here decimated what was a pretty fair defense and got the GM and coach fired. Contractually they may need to keep him one more year. But extending him long term seems risky given past history. I hope it works out but I'm disappointed in the results for the past few years and don't blame it all on coaching. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year. 

4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.

I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions. 

And if you were talking about Tennis or Golf or Chess, you'd have a point. It is absolutely bewildering to me how so many folks still don't seem to understand that a football team has 24 key players, MOST of whom have to be healthy, hot and playing at a high level at the right time in order for their team to win a Super Bowl. 

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year. 

4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.

I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions. 

And if you were talking about Tennis or Golf or Chess, you'd have a point. It is absolutely bewildering to me how so many folks still don't seem to understand that a football team has 24 key players, MOST of whom have to be healthy, hot and playing at a high level at the right time in order for their team to win a Super Bowl. 

Winning the Super Bowl?  We haven't even been winning half our games the past couple years.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Zanary" said: Yes, I'm defending the incumbent, again...but part of that will always come from memories of us being the aging QBs' "last chance team" at not-quite making it. The slew of not-quite-retired QBs was very hard on the Vikings fan wondering about the team's future.

The argument about "knowing what we have with Kirk" is kinda hollow, as he did have a revolving door of OCs, a line that never cracked the top 20, and a HC that honestly may have loved screens as much as Leslie Frazier did ("I'll check the tape"-LF).  As has been pointed out, Zimmer would stubbornly run Cook straight into the DTs for two straight downs and let KC sort out the resulting 3rd and 13 all too often...and/or pump the brakes on the offense once we got any sort of lead.

We haven't seen Cousins, Jefferson, Thielen, etc in an AMBITIOUS offense together, yet...which is an amazing thought, at least to me.  That's what I'm hoping to witness this season, among many other things.

I completely agree with your last paragraph and do admit that for a 10-years vet Kirk does have some upside. I’m just not willing to risk a 5 year top of the market deal to see if said upside materializes. It’s a huge risk. 

And it it doesn't, you're still getting a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to give you 4,000 yards and 30 TDs every year. 

4,000 yds, 30 TDs, and how many super bowls? I don’t care if our QB throws 7 INTs all year or 27… I just want the Vikings to win a Super Bowl while I’m still around.

I do wonder if the pro-Kirk militia truly believes we’ll win a SB during his next contract, or if we’re just glad to not be the Lions. 

And if you were talking about Tennis or Golf or Chess, you'd have a point. It is absolutely bewildering to me how so many folks still don't seem to understand that a football team has 24 key players, MOST of whom have to be healthy, hot and playing at a high level at the right time in order for their team to win a Super Bowl. 

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: He is 33, so what 3 or 4 more years? Are they going to a five year deal with voidable years and restructure money to bonuses to help? I don't know, we'll see I guess. But I still want them developing a qb of the future.

Next year is the draft pool to dip a toe into. There's 4-5 prospects worth a shot. Plus another handful of guys who could jump up a tier.

Patience required.

I'd feel much better drafting a guy in '23, knowing Cousins is our QB for a few more years, and knowing we can give the kid some time to develop. At least a year. If he turns out, you can always trade Cousins then.  

After the top two, I'm really starting to like Levis, Van Dyke, and Richardson on the next tier. Hopefully by the end on 2022, they are all on par. Levis is the most intriguing to me. Cannon arm, size, can run, prototypical size.  By next fall, he might be the #2 guy. 

Is the Minnesota Vikings smartest option moving forward with a new general manager and head coach to trade quarterback Kirk Cousins, kickstarting a fresh era with new leadership?
Not according to Bill Barnwell from ESPN.
Barnwell advocates the antithesis of trading Cousins, suggesting an extension for the 33-year-old in an examination of every NFL team and how each can improve for 2022. And the extension isn’t just a means to “kick the can down the road,” as enacted by Rick Spielman in 2020.
The recommendation from Barnwell is a full-scale, honest-to-goodness extension for Cousins – to the tune of five years. Yes, five years. Although Barnwell’s idea allows for an evaluation period after the 2023 season, the deal nevertheless marries Cousins to Minnesota for an additional half-decade.
Barnwell explained:

“The hiring of Kevin O’Connell, who worked with Cousins in the past, suggests that he is likely to stick around. Given the fact that he has a $45 million cap hit in 2022, Minnesota needs to either restructure his deal by adding voidable years or hand him an extension with a signing bonus to reduce his 2022 number. The latter makes more sense to me, even if it means keeping Cousins in the range of $35 million per season. The ideal scenario for the Vikings would be signing him to a five-year pact that they can reexamine after 2023 without having to eat an ungodly amount of money. It might be more realistic to shoot for 2024. Either way, with a team that finished ahead of the Bengals, Titans and Raiders in DVOA in 2021, I’m not sure I would be desperately anxious to blow things up and go in a different direction at quarterback.”
– Bill Barnwell | ESPN

Signing on with Cousins for five more campaigns is bold, rest assured. He’s a divisive player, so about 20% of the Vikings fanbase would sour on Adofo-Mensah and O’Connell – like instantly – if Cousins was inked for five more hurrahs. Yet, these are fresh eyes and minds on the scene. The Wilfs hired who they considered the best and brightest. If the twosome wants to extend Cousins for a long time – or trade him elsewhere – one should probably afford the benefit of the doubt.




Unless the Vikings hit gold in a 2022 NFL Draft renowned for underwhelming quarterback prospects, trading Cousins would mean the 2022 season is a lost cause for playoff contention. The free-agent pool for quarterbacks stinks – unless you enjoy Cam Newton, Mitchell Trubisky, or Marcus Mariota.






Extending Cousins adds up as he consistently delivers. His problem? He is not elite like Patrick Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers – and folks desperately want him to assume that title. So, his delivery of consistent production is about 30 touchdowns per season and 10 interceptions. In some games, he’s tremendous. Others – he’s ho-hum or bad. That’s the deal with Cousins. Such is the case for other quarterbacks, too, but the knives really sharpen for Cousins because he earns $33 million per season. That’s the eighth-most leaguewide, and for some reason, fans want Cousins to perform at a Top 3 level.






Moreover, Cousins has never experienced competent pass protection with the Vikings. He’s routinely under siege. For a player who does not have great pocket presence, the mix is combustible. Therefore, the new Vikings leadership would be wise to build the trenches, hopefully unlocking Cousins with clean pockets.

While Barnwell’s musings were not a prediction, don’t be surprised if the Vikings remain with Cousins for a few more years before trying the rookie quarterback plan once again. Generally speaking, men who finish a season with a 33-touchdown to seven-INT split aren’t cast out for unknown “figure it out later” nothingness at quarterback
https://vikingsterritory.com/2022/general-news/espns-bold-kirk-cousins-idea-to-fix-vikings

“Can you say clean Pocket?”… SURE!  ;) B) :p  

With a good defense and our current offense with Cousins can absolutely win a Super Bowl. Cousins is freaking unflappable. That is really hard to find. He’s also one of the toughest QB’s in the league. The guy still gets hurt, he just plays through it. He had a stretch towards the end of this year where he played with a bad shoulder for 3 games or so. The guy just keeps grinding. 

I don’t know who else watched the SuperBowl, but in my opinion, if we had the defense, we could have beat either of those teams. 
We have a great opportunity to strengthen our defense with good corners and awesome edge defenders available this year. I’m all about winning this coming year. If some cap space can get cleared, this team can see good improvement all around through development and bringing in a couple of guys. 

Teams that Cousins has been the starter for have made the playoffs 2 times in 7 years and never consecutively.  But there are always excuses.

The offensive line, the defense, the coaching, the scheme, etc.

At the end of the day, the playoff appearances is on his resume forever.

It would be asinine for the current regime to invest multiple additional years in this dude that for one reason or another, doesn't get his team to the playoffs.

I think that with the current draft and the lack of free agents that they should let him play it out.

They can absorb the 45M cap hit or ask him to add one void year to move some dead money to 2023.

If he is able to get his team to the playoffs, then they can talk extension in 2023.

If not, then they'll have tons of cap space and can figure it out.

The last two men who invested a ton of cap space and multiple years in this QB got fired.

But many Vikings fans want to continue to invest in this QB and expect that the team is going to improve the pass rush, corners, run defense, and interior offensive line pass blocking this year in free agency and the draft.

Good luck with all of that.

I am hoping and praying that this team can just get into the freaking playoffs in 2022.

@"Havoc1649" said: With a good defense and our current offense with Cousins can absolutely win a Super Bowl. Cousins is freaking unflappable. That is really hard to find. He’s also one of the toughest QB’s in the league. The guy still gets hurt, he just plays through it. He had a stretch towards the end of this year where he played with a bad shoulder for 3 games or so. The guy just keeps grinding. 

I don’t know who else watched the SuperBowl, but in my opinion, if we had the defense, we could have beat either of those teams.  We have a great opportunity to strengthen our defense with good corners and awesome edge defenders available this year. I’m all about winning this coming year. If some cap space can get cleared, this team can see good improvement all around through development and bringing in a couple of guys. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: With a good defense and our current offense with Cousins can absolutely win a Super Bowl. Cousins is freaking unflappable. That is really hard to find. He’s also one of the toughest QB’s in the league. The guy still gets hurt, he just plays through it. He had a stretch towards the end of this year where he played with a bad shoulder for 3 games or so. The guy just keeps grinding. 

I don’t know who else watched the SuperBowl, but in my opinion, if we had the defense, we could have beat either of those teams.  We have a great opportunity to strengthen our defense with good corners and awesome edge defenders available this year. I’m all about winning this coming year. If some cap space can get cleared, this team can see good improvement all around through development and bringing in a couple of guys. 

I dont know that unflappable is how I would describe Cousins,   he has shown that when pressured his mechanics can go to shit.  

@"Havoc1649" said: With a good defense and our current offense with Cousins can absolutely win a Super Bowl. Cousins is freaking unflappable. That is really hard to find. He’s also one of the toughest QB’s in the league. The guy still gets hurt, he just plays through it. He had a stretch towards the end of this year where he played with a bad shoulder for 3 games or so. The guy just keeps grinding. 

I don’t know who else watched the SuperBowl, but in my opinion, if we had the defense, we could have beat either of those teams.  We have a great opportunity to strengthen our defense with good corners and awesome edge defenders available this year. I’m all about winning this coming year. If some cap space can get cleared, this team can see good improvement all around through development and bringing in a couple of guys. 

@"pattersaur" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: With a good defense and our current offense with Cousins can absolutely win a Super Bowl. Cousins is freaking unflappable. That is really hard to find. He’s also one of the toughest QB’s in the league. The guy still gets hurt, he just plays through it. He had a stretch towards the end of this year where he played with a bad shoulder for 3 games or so. The guy just keeps grinding. 

I don’t know who else watched the SuperBowl, but in my opinion, if we had the defense, we could have beat either of those teams.  We have a great opportunity to strengthen our defense with good corners and awesome edge defenders available this year. I’m all about winning this coming year. If some cap space can get cleared, this team can see good improvement all around through development and bringing in a couple of guys. 

Our offense is so good that we scored 7 points at home against the CLEVELAND BROWNS. Dude. I’m not trying to be negative I swear but we are a long ways away from a Super Bowl.