We are criticizing a guy for making one or two (gasp maybe even three) bad throws a game3, in favor of a guy that hasn't played a meaningful football game since Jan 2016..... Folks that was a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago. My money is that you would see a LOT more than 3 bad throws in that situation.
Quote: @"golfervike" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"SFVikingFan" said:
I'm starting to get really irritated with this line of questioning and even Zimmer's responses honestly. Zimmer can put this shit to bed but has allowed this uncertainty to continue. Case has saved our season, been playing lights out, and has done everything asked of him on and off the field. He deserves to be the starter and its bullshit that every week we have to keep hearing rumors of him getting benched and questions about when is he finally going to shit the bed.
Case deserves more than that.
i agree 100% but it's well documented his love of Teddy, and IMO his overestimate of Teddy's game. he's just begging for a reason to put him in the game. it is becoming more and more apparent each week. he seems upset that he has to play Case, because Case is playing so well.
Why not give Mike Zimmer the credit he deserves? You're suggesting that Zimmer wants to put Teddy in only because he "likes" him, and not because of what he has seen in practices. I think that's pretty ridiculous, don't you?
I'm not able to witness practices, but by almost all accounts Teddy has been pretty spectacular. And it's far more likely that he, and not Case Keenum, is our future at QB. So it would not be that crazy to suggest that Zimmer is dying to see what Teddy can do in this offense. And probably senses, as many of us do, that his offense would be even better with Teddy.
But he knows, as many of us do, that you can't bench a QB as white-hot as Keenum has been. You just can't. And so on it goes.... It's an awkward situation and you can see that awkwardness in almost every interview Zimmer does.
Yes, I think the cold calculations say that Keenum is on an unsustainable path. But Zimmer recognizes the hot hand/lucky horseshoe and it is working right now. Very tough spot for a coach and I think he is handling it rather honestly. Keenum makes some dumb plays that could really hurt the team, but while we are winning and putting up good offense, it really is tough to change.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but before the EIGHTEEN MONTH LAYOVER, and teddy last played, he made dumb plays, or terrible deep throws, each and every week... If Teddy put up these numbers there would be in no way these Teddy guys clamoring for Case.
Everyone keeps stating "play the hot hand" are they suggesting that after a season's worth of good/even great QB play, if he has one bad game, we bench him?
What amazes me is the lack of trust people have in the coaches that are paid to do this, have their livelihood depend on it and watch them every day.
Nothing amazes me about what people will discuss on a football board. That is what we do. But to think that some man crush would make an NFL coach throw a season down the toilet is rather odd.
TB seemed to learn from his WTF plays and rarely repeated mistakes. But Case and his horseshoe seem to thrive on them, so he isn't exactly cutting out the mistakes.
I hashed it out last week and won't waste more time on it. I think Case is on an unsustainable path. Film and defenses and lady luck will all catch up. That is my opinion and I stand by it. But I enjoy the ride.
Quote: @"Mike Olson" said:
We are criticizing a guy for making one or two (gasp maybe even three) bad throws a game3, in favor of a guy that hasn't played a meaningful football game since Jan 2016..... Folks that was a LOOOOOOOOOONG time ago. My money is that you would see a LOT more than 3 bad throws in that situation.
yes- 100% agreed. i don't know how this is a debate, i mean i know we all love the QB sitting on the sideline... but this seems extreme.
Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"SFVikingFan" said:
I'm starting to get really irritated with this line of questioning and even Zimmer's responses honestly. Zimmer can put this shit to bed but has allowed this uncertainty to continue. Case has saved our season, been playing lights out, and has done everything asked of him on and off the field. He deserves to be the starter and its bullshit that every week we have to keep hearing rumors of him getting benched and questions about when is he finally going to shit the bed.
Case deserves more than that.
i agree 100% but it's well documented his love of Teddy, and IMO his overestimate of Teddy's game. he's just begging for a reason to put him in the game. it is becoming more and more apparent each week. he seems upset that he has to play Case, because Case is playing so well.
Why not give Mike Zimmer the credit he deserves? You're suggesting that Zimmer wants to put Teddy in only because he "likes" him, and not because of what he has seen in practices. I think that's pretty ridiculous, don't you?
I'm not able to witness practices, but by almost all accounts Teddy has been pretty spectacular. And it's far more likely that he, and not Case Keenum, is our future at QB. So it would not be that crazy to suggest that Zimmer is dying to see what Teddy can do in this offense. And probably senses, as many of us do, that his offense would be even better with Teddy.
But he knows, as many of us do, that you can't bench a QB as white-hot as Keenum has been. You just can't. And so on it goes.... It's an awkward situation and you can see that awkwardness in almost every interview Zimmer does.
Yes, I think the cold calculations say that Keenum is on an unsustainable path. But Zimmer recognizes the hot hand/lucky horseshoe and it is working right now. Very tough spot for a coach and I think he is handling it rather honestly. Keenum makes some dumb plays that could really hurt the team, but while we are winning and putting up good offense, it really is tough to change.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but before the EIGHTEEN MONTH LAYOVER, and teddy last played, he made dumb plays, or terrible deep throws, each and every week... If Teddy put up these numbers there would be in no way these Teddy guys clamoring for Case.
Everyone keeps stating "play the hot hand" are they suggesting that after a season's worth of good/even great QB play, if he has one bad game, we bench him?
What amazes me is the lack of trust people have in the coaches that are paid to do this, have their livelihood depend on it and watch them every day.
Nothing amazes me about what people will discuss on a football board. That is what we do. But to think that some man crush would make an NFL coach throw a season down the toilet is rather odd.
TB seemed to learn from his WTF plays and rarely repeated mistakes. But Case and his horseshoe seem to thrive on them, so he isn't exactly cutting out the mistakes.
I hashed it out last week and won't waste more time on it. I think Case is on an unsustainable path. Film and defenses and lady luck will all catch up. That is my opinion and I stand by it. But I enjoy the ride.
I was waiting for this argument to come out.
" The coaches have forgotten more than we'll ever know!"
" Zim sees them every day in practice"
OF COURSE the coaches know more than we do, and have their livelihood dependent on this, but does that exclude them from making biased or incorrect decisions? if that was the case nobody would be fired...
And yes, there are proven cases where a Head Coach has tied his wagon to a QB he loves for whatever reason the reason might be. and When did you see Teddy learn from his WTF moments, two years ago? in a Preseason game against the Chargers? that's what you're basing this off of?
You're certainly entitled to your opinion and i am mine, i guess it boils down to people's faith in Teddy, who has always had a divided fan base regarding how good of an NFL qb he is/will be, despite everyone loving him as a person.
But he made a couple bad throws....
![[Image: c55i131snh1d.jpg]](https://vikefans.com/vfforums/uploads/editor/gs/c55i131snh1d.jpg)
Quote: @"prairieghost" said:
In a different thread it was Bolstad I think who said he's starting to worry more about keeping our OC than who will be our QB for the long-term. I am starting to come around to that thought myself. It's clear that Shurmur is a pretty great OC and I could sure see him as a hot candidate for one of the many yearly vacancies upcoming.
I'd love to see the team keep both QBs and the OC. Will all 3 be with the team next year? Will any of them be with the team?? How about 1 or 2 of them? I think it'd be a frickin' miracle if we kept all 3 another season.
Agree. Shurmur has been the secret sauce to this team's offensive turnaround (with apologies to the improved OL). There's no doubt he's going to get some looks, but if he goes, Vikings have to find a way to keep his offense intact. I've seen so many teams lose their OC and bring in an entirely new system, forfeiting all familiarity and continuity they'd built. We can't let that happen.
The best (but rather unlikely) scenario would be to resign them both in the off season and let them fight it out for the starter job. However, on top of having to try to retain at least one of our QBs (meaning Bradford, Bridgewater or Keenum) we also have to hope we keep Shurmur around, or hope that we can find someone like him to utilize his schemes and keep the roll going. Can you imagine not only losing multiple QBs but also your OC in the offseason?? Start thinking about it because it could happen...
We lose Shurmur we start all over on offense, and to me that's a much worse thing than trying to make a decision on the long-term QB (and I'm not underestimating what a big decision we have at QB, either). We finally have the O-line of our best, prettiest dreams, a very balanced running game, and a pass attack like we haven't had since Favre. Anyone think possibly having start over AGAIN on O would be appealing next season??
Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"SFVikingFan" said:
I'm starting to get really irritated with this line of questioning and even Zimmer's responses honestly. Zimmer can put this shit to bed but has allowed this uncertainty to continue. Case has saved our season, been playing lights out, and has done everything asked of him on and off the field. He deserves to be the starter and its bullshit that every week we have to keep hearing rumors of him getting benched and questions about when is he finally going to shit the bed.
Case deserves more than that.
i agree 100% but it's well documented his love of Teddy, and IMO his overestimate of Teddy's game. he's just begging for a reason to put him in the game. it is becoming more and more apparent each week. he seems upset that he has to play Case, because Case is playing so well.
Why not give Mike Zimmer the credit he deserves? You're suggesting that Zimmer wants to put Teddy in only because he "likes" him, and not because of what he has seen in practices. I think that's pretty ridiculous, don't you?
I'm not able to witness practices, but by almost all accounts Teddy has been pretty spectacular. And it's far more likely that he, and not Case Keenum, is our future at QB. So it would not be that crazy to suggest that Zimmer is dying to see what Teddy can do in this offense. And probably senses, as many of us do, that his offense would be even better with Teddy.
But he knows, as many of us do, that you can't bench a QB as white-hot as Keenum has been. You just can't. And so on it goes.... It's an awkward situation and you can see that awkwardness in almost every interview Zimmer does.
Yes, I think the cold calculations say that Keenum is on an unsustainable path. But Zimmer recognizes the hot hand/lucky horseshoe and it is working right now. Very tough spot for a coach and I think he is handling it rather honestly. Keenum makes some dumb plays that could really hurt the team, but while we are winning and putting up good offense, it really is tough to change.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but before the EIGHTEEN MONTH LAYOVER, and teddy last played, he made dumb plays, or terrible deep throws, each and every week... If Teddy put up these numbers there would be in no way these Teddy guys clamoring for Case.
Everyone keeps stating "play the hot hand" are they suggesting that after a season's worth of good/even great QB play, if he has one bad game, we bench him?
What amazes me is the lack of trust people have in the coaches that are paid to do this, have their livelihood depend on it and watch them every day.
Nothing amazes me about what people will discuss on a football board. That is what we do. But to think that some man crush would make an NFL coach throw a season down the toilet is rather odd.
TB seemed to learn from his WTF plays and rarely repeated mistakes. But Case and his horseshoe seem to thrive on them, so he isn't exactly cutting out the mistakes.
I hashed it out last week and won't waste more time on it. I think Case is on an unsustainable path. Film and defenses and lady luck will all catch up. That is my opinion and I stand by it. But I enjoy the ride.
I get it, but I really hope that Keenum isn't benched because of one poor game.
Anyone can keep saying week after week that a QB is going to have a bad game at some point. You could keep saying that for Brady, Rodgers, etc. and you would eventually be right. But I really hope that Keenum's leash is longer than one game.
Quote: @"prairieghost" said:
The best (but rather unlikely) scenario would be to resign them both in the off season and let them fight it out for the starter job. However, on top of having to try to retain at least one of our QBs (meaning Bradford, Bridgewater or Keenum) we also have to hope we keep Shurmur around, or hope that we can find someone like him to utilize his schemes and keep the roll going. Can you imagine not only losing multiple QBs but also your OC in the offseason?? Start thinking about it because it could happen...
We lose Shurmur we start all over on offense, and to me that's a much worse thing than trying to make a decision on the long-term QB (and I'm not underestimating what a big decision we have at QB, either). We finally have the O-line of our best, prettiest dreams, a very balanced running game, and a pass attack like we haven't had since Favre. Anyone think possibly having start over AGAIN on O would be appealing next season??
so ... assuming Shurmur is gone ( I am ) do you resign Case and lose Teddy, or do you keep an unproven Teddy and lose Case? we wont get them both, I just dont see it happening.
Quote: @"golfervike" said:
@"greediron" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"golfervike" said:
@"SFVikingFan" said:
I'm starting to get really irritated with this line of questioning and even Zimmer's responses honestly. Zimmer can put this shit to bed but has allowed this uncertainty to continue. Case has saved our season, been playing lights out, and has done everything asked of him on and off the field. He deserves to be the starter and its bullshit that every week we have to keep hearing rumors of him getting benched and questions about when is he finally going to shit the bed.
Case deserves more than that.
i agree 100% but it's well documented his love of Teddy, and IMO his overestimate of Teddy's game. he's just begging for a reason to put him in the game. it is becoming more and more apparent each week. he seems upset that he has to play Case, because Case is playing so well.
Why not give Mike Zimmer the credit he deserves? You're suggesting that Zimmer wants to put Teddy in only because he "likes" him, and not because of what he has seen in practices. I think that's pretty ridiculous, don't you?
I'm not able to witness practices, but by almost all accounts Teddy has been pretty spectacular. And it's far more likely that he, and not Case Keenum, is our future at QB. So it would not be that crazy to suggest that Zimmer is dying to see what Teddy can do in this offense. And probably senses, as many of us do, that his offense would be even better with Teddy.
But he knows, as many of us do, that you can't bench a QB as white-hot as Keenum has been. You just can't. And so on it goes.... It's an awkward situation and you can see that awkwardness in almost every interview Zimmer does.
Yes, I think the cold calculations say that Keenum is on an unsustainable path. But Zimmer recognizes the hot hand/lucky horseshoe and it is working right now. Very tough spot for a coach and I think he is handling it rather honestly. Keenum makes some dumb plays that could really hurt the team, but while we are winning and putting up good offense, it really is tough to change.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but before the EIGHTEEN MONTH LAYOVER, and teddy last played, he made dumb plays, or terrible deep throws, each and every week... If Teddy put up these numbers there would be in no way these Teddy guys clamoring for Case.
Everyone keeps stating "play the hot hand" are they suggesting that after a season's worth of good/even great QB play, if he has one bad game, we bench him?
Probably won't even take a full game. I tend to think two or three bad series would do it.
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