Case Keenum has “a horseshoe right now” but how long will he have starting job?
MINNEAPOLIS – The Vikings faced second-and-5 from the Los Angeles 30-yard line late in the first quarter Sunday when Case Keenum dropped back and came under heavy pressure.The quarterback managed to evade linebacker Robert Quinn and ducked as linebacker Connor Barwin somehow slipped off him. And then, as he was about to take a hit from defensive tackle Michael Brockers, Keenum lofted the ball into the air.
It came down in Adam Thielen’s hands, a split second before cornerback Trumaine Johnson arrived, for a 12-yard gain to the Rams 18. Five plays later, Latavius Murray scored on an 8-yard run to tie the score at 7 in what became a 24-7 victory for the Vikings.
So Vikings coach Mike Zimmer had to be thrilled with his quarterback’s Houdini-like act to avoid the sack, right?
“Yeah, um, it was a good ending,” Zimmer said afterward showing little enthusiasm for the play.
Zimmer, who has called Keenum excitable in recent weeks, later elaborated on seeing his QB launch a pass that just as easily could have been intercepted. “I’m thinking a lot of things at that point,” he said. “But, he’s got a horseshoe right now.”
http://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2017/11/case-keenum-horseshoe-right-now-long-will-starting-job/
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
@"Mike Olson" said:thats up to Zimmer. I dont think its something that can be pre determined, its a gut thing. if/when Case loses his midas touch it will need to be addressed quick enough to not lose to much ground in the playoff seeding. 1 bad game, 4 bad quarters in 2 consecutive games, I dont know. do the wheels fly off or just wobble enough that the cart wont roll? it really is a question that cant be answered without seeing whats happening. If Case hadnt come out and played as good as he did early against the Skins and then follow it up with a good performance yesterday... he would likely be under some serious scrutiny right now regardless of the W-L results.@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"Mike Olson" said:Honestly, the next pick he throws, this board is going to freak the hell out. because heaven forbid a QB ever throw an int. Teddy clearly wouldnt have made that pass. (whatever pass it is)@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"golfervike" said:@"greediron" said:
What amazes me is the lack of trust people have in the coaches that are paid to do this, have their livelihood depend on it and watch them every day.Nothing amazes me about what people will discuss on a football board. That is what we do. But to think that some man crush would make an NFL coach throw a season down the toilet is rather odd.
TB seemed to learn from his WTF plays and rarely repeated mistakes. But Case and his horseshoe seem to thrive on them, so he isn't exactly cutting out the mistakes.
I hashed it out last week and won't waste more time on it. I think Case is on an unsustainable path. Film and defenses and lady luck will all catch up. That is my opinion and I stand by it. But I enjoy the ride.
I was waiting for this argument to come out.
" The coaches have forgotten more than we'll ever know!"
" Zim sees them every day in practice"OF COURSE the coaches know more than we do, and have their livelihood dependent on this, but does that exclude them from making biased or incorrect decisions? if that was the case nobody would be fired...
And yes, there are proven cases where a Head Coach has tied his wagon to a QB he loves for whatever reason the reason might be. and When did you see Teddy learn from his WTF moments, two years ago? in a Preseason game against the Chargers? that's what you're basing this off of?You're certainly entitled to your opinion and i am mine, i guess it boils down to people's faith in Teddy, who has always had a divided fan base regarding how good of an NFL qb he is/will be, despite everyone loving him as a person.
So in other words, you have some preset arguments you are looking to use? Glad we could check that box.You are amazed that we are debating football on the internet.
And you keep dropping the line that Zim would sacrifice his job because he loves Teddy. That is rather an odd take. The players love playing for Zimmer because he actually cares about them. So for him to talk about how great a young man that Teddy is doesn't mean he would risk his career for that feeling.
As to Teddy learning from his mistakes, that was a common thread in many of the articles I have read on Teddy over the years, and not just Zimmer.
And it doesn't boil down to unreasonable faith in Teddy. It boils down to watching football. I see Case make plenty of WTF plays, but somehow he usually ends up lucky. The "horseshoe theory". Zimmer sees that too. So obviously our eyes are telling us something that a career coach is seeing as well. Is it enough to put a leash on Case? Dunno. That is why we are debating it.
@"golfervike" said:thats hardly a fair statement to make. if its another stare the guy down and throw it anyway pick, or chuck it up for grabs when the pressure gets to hot, yes he will catch some shit, but any QB should in those situations. If its a tipped ball or the defender just makes a good play on a well thrown ball.... well thats football.@"Mike Olson" said:Honestly, the next pick he throws, this board is going to freak the hell out. because heaven forbid a QB ever throw an int. Teddy clearly wouldnt have made that pass. (whatever pass it is)@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"Mike Olson" said: But he made a couple bad throws....
But, I can make a meme that means nothing... So I must be right.
@"greediron" said:Yes i am amazed we're debating benching him. many others are too.@"golfervike" said:@"greediron" said:
What amazes me is the lack of trust people have in the coaches that are paid to do this, have their livelihood depend on it and watch them every day.Nothing amazes me about what people will discuss on a football board. That is what we do. But to think that some man crush would make an NFL coach throw a season down the toilet is rather odd.
TB seemed to learn from his WTF plays and rarely repeated mistakes. But Case and his horseshoe seem to thrive on them, so he isn't exactly cutting out the mistakes.
I hashed it out last week and won't waste more time on it. I think Case is on an unsustainable path. Film and defenses and lady luck will all catch up. That is my opinion and I stand by it. But I enjoy the ride.
I was waiting for this argument to come out.
" The coaches have forgotten more than we'll ever know!"
" Zim sees them every day in practice"OF COURSE the coaches know more than we do, and have their livelihood dependent on this, but does that exclude them from making biased or incorrect decisions? if that was the case nobody would be fired...
And yes, there are proven cases where a Head Coach has tied his wagon to a QB he loves for whatever reason the reason might be. and When did you see Teddy learn from his WTF moments, two years ago? in a Preseason game against the Chargers? that's what you're basing this off of?You're certainly entitled to your opinion and i am mine, i guess it boils down to people's faith in Teddy, who has always had a divided fan base regarding how good of an NFL qb he is/will be, despite everyone loving him as a person.
So in other words, you have some preset arguments you are looking to use? Glad we could check that box.You are amazed that we are debating football on the internet.
And you keep dropping the line that Zim would sacrifice his job because he loves Teddy. That is rather an odd take. The players love playing for Zimmer because he actually cares about them. So for him to talk about how great a young man that Teddy is doesn't mean he would risk his career for that feeling.
As to Teddy learning from his mistakes, that was a common thread in many of the articles I have read on Teddy over the years, and not just Zimmer.
And it doesn't boil down to unreasonable faith in Teddy. It boils down to watching football. I see Case make plenty of WTF plays, but somehow he usually ends up lucky. The "horseshoe theory". Zimmer sees that too. So obviously our eyes are telling us something that a career coach is seeing as well. Is it enough to put a leash on Case? Dunno. That is why we are debating it.
whatever dude, we're just going round in circles, you 100% ignore the fact that Teddy has just as many WTF moments, and yes. i'm amazed we're debating this, but go find someone else to argue with, because you're just saying the same thing over and over.
and re-read what i said, i never said he'd sacrifice his job for teddy. I said he loves Teddy, and that can make you biased in your opinion, and he loves a check down safer QB. that's his choice as HC, i just happen to disagree with it. and that's ok too.
No i had no preset arguments, but if you disagree with someone here, and the coach agrees with the person you're arguing, it's common for them to say, COACH KNOWS best.
we're not going to change each others mind. and that's ok.
@"JimmyinSD" said:Like when Teddy held on to the ball for 8 years against the Cardinals and cost us the game? i understand that's cherry picking. but i was not calling for Teddy to be benched after that game, and we shouldnt call for Case to be benched if he has one poor game.@"golfervike" said:thats hardly a fair statement to make. if its another stare the guy down and throw it anyway pick, or chuck it up for grabs when the pressure gets to hot, yes he will catch some shit, but any QB should in those situations. If its a tipped ball or the defender just makes a good play on a well thrown ball.... well thats football.@"Mike Olson" said:Honestly, the next pick he throws, this board is going to freak the hell out. because heaven forbid a QB ever throw an int. Teddy clearly wouldnt have made that pass. (whatever pass it is)@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"golfervike" said:again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.@"JimmyinSD" said:Like when Teddy held on to the ball for 8 years against the Cardinals and cost us the game? i understand that's cherry picking. but i was not calling for Teddy to be benched after that game, and we shouldnt call for Case to be benched if he has one poor game.@"golfervike" said:thats hardly a fair statement to make. if its another stare the guy down and throw it anyway pick, or chuck it up for grabs when the pressure gets to hot, yes he will catch some shit, but any QB should in those situations. If its a tipped ball or the defender just makes a good play on a well thrown ball.... well thats football.@"Mike Olson" said:Honestly, the next pick he throws, this board is going to freak the hell out. because heaven forbid a QB ever throw an int. Teddy clearly wouldnt have made that pass. (whatever pass it is)@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"Mike Olson" said:I read it. Not really sure what that means. Has Hill saved the season at RT? Harris at S? Backups are suppose to come in and play well, otherwise they shouldn't be the backup.@"silverjoel" said:@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basicallysaved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. Bridgewater is a NFL QB, if he can't hack it, so be it and go back to Keenum. Again, if Zimmer feels Bridgewater is the best option, he should go with him. Play the best talent. To paraphrase Zimmer, good enough is the enemy of great.Isn't a little insulting to the rest of the team to say that Keenum saved the season? I would guess the defense feels like they're a part of the success of the team.
Maybe you should read my post a little closer...
@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable.I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.
Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
@"JimmyinSD" said:From the sounds of the interviews, Zimmer is playing this one by feel. He has a plan, but I think that includes how Case responds to the adversity, and to coaching. I think he played better this week than he did in Washington. So I expect Zimmer will continue to ride him until he sees a good enough reason to change. Dunno if that will happen, but it is obvious that he sees that writing on the wall.@"Mike Olson" said:thats up to Zimmer. I dont think its something that can be pre determined, its a gut thing. if/when Case loses his midas touch it will need to be addressed quick enough to not lose to much ground in the playoff seeding. 1 bad game, 4 bad quarters in 2 consecutive games, I dont know. do the wheels fly off or just wobble enough that the cart wont roll? it really is a question that cant be answered without seeing whats happening. If Case hadnt come out and played as good as he did early against the Skins and then follow it up with a good performance yesterday... he would likely be under some serious scrutiny right now regardless of the W-L results.@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
@"greediron" said:like i was saying. to many varaibles to say ahead of time what it would take.@"JimmyinSD" said:From the sounds of the interviews, Zimmer is playing this one by feel. He has a plan, but I think that includes how Case responds to the adversity, and to coaching. I think he played better this week than he did in Washington. So I expect Zimmer will continue to ride him until he sees a good enough reason to change. Dunno if that will happen, but it is obvious that he sees that writing on the wall.@"Mike Olson" said:thats up to Zimmer. I dont think its something that can be pre determined, its a gut thing. if/when Case loses his midas touch it will need to be addressed quick enough to not lose to much ground in the playoff seeding. 1 bad game, 4 bad quarters in 2 consecutive games, I dont know. do the wheels fly off or just wobble enough that the cart wont roll? it really is a question that cant be answered without seeing whats happening. If Case hadnt come out and played as good as he did early against the Skins and then follow it up with a good performance yesterday... he would likely be under some serious scrutiny right now regardless of the W-L results.@"JimmyinSD" said:Ok but what is the definition of changing the trajectory? Two bad plays? A bad half? A bad game? Two bad games?@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basically saved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. well not as long as Case keeps doing enough to win. if the trajectory changes I dont think that the team would have any issues with Teddy getting his chance.
@"silverjoel" said:@"Mike Olson" said:I read it. Not really sure what that means. Has Hill saved the season at RT? Harris at S? Backups are suppose to come in and play well, otherwise they shouldn't be the backup.@"silverjoel" said:@"Mike Olson" said: How fair would it be to Bridgewater to ask him to come in after not playing a meaningful football game since Jan 2016 and not screw up the current trajectory? That's a lot of time that he hasn't led a team. And that's a lot of pressure to welcome him back under. If it doesn't work you have a whole locker room full of folks that are going to ask why you went away from a guy that basicallysaved your season at the QB position. I just don't think we will see Teddy again this year. Bridgewater is a NFL QB, if he can't hack it, so be it and go back to Keenum. Again, if Zimmer feels Bridgewater is the best option, he should go with him. Play the best talent. To paraphrase Zimmer, good enough is the enemy of great.Isn't a little insulting to the rest of the team to say that Keenum saved the season? I would guess the defense feels like they're a part of the success of the team.
Maybe you should read my post a little closer...
LOL, that's hilarious. C'mon now, this is where a team's depth comes into play....and it varies greatly. Tell that to Dallas with backup RBs and OTs are sinking their season. Green Bay. Arizona. They are backups because their level of play is substantially lower than the starters otherwise they'd be starters on teams like Cleveland.Rashod Hill, Case Keenum, Anthony Harris, Danny Isidora, etc. have stepped up. More so than other team's backups and they are the reason the team is 8-2.
@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..because he had two bad passes?
@"golfervike" said:... he has 5 interceptions in 9 games... Teddy, every single week had a handful of plays that was a WTF moment. i'm simply amazed people still want teddy in there at this point, this team is behind Case, other than the HC.And i would argue it is a detriment to have a coach that doesn't want his QB to do anything other than not lose the game. hell most fans are that way, so many ripped our offense when Sam was asked to do that, and many more ripped Teddy for playing too conservative.
I am honestly amazed this is even a conversation anymore. different strokes for different folks i guess... but nothing will convince me Teddy needs to see time this season unless we have an Injury.
I just don’t see how you could come to the conclusion that
Zimmer wants QBs that just “don’t lose the game”? That was true for a brief period of time when
our OLine sucked and AD was still a stud that only worked when the offense went
through him, but he certainly isn’t hating on high performing QBs. Zimmer hates mistakes. He hates when players make bone-headed plays
that have a much higher chance for dramatic failure than they do for success. He consistently wants players to “do their
job” and “play within the scheme”. Our team
is renowned for having guys who “do their job” and don’t try to do too much
(too much meaning putting the team at risk by not doing their job).The team is behind both Case and Teddy. I haven’t seen anything to suggest otherwise.
I don’t agree that Teddy had as many or more WTF moments
than Case. One of the defining
characteristics of Teddy has been his lack of WTF moments.I also don’t agree that Zimmer doesn’t support Case. Zimmer supports his players by working with
them to become better. He doesn’t coddle
them and he isn’t afraid of pointing out their mistakes.I’m a fan of Case.
There’s a lot to like about him, but he’s really got to reign in the
egregious plays.
@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
@"greediron" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said: again, cant really pre-decide what it will take can we? it really has to be an in the moment type of decision IMO based on what else was happening at the time. I am not really remembering the play you are talking about, is that the one the Kalil completely was made to look the fool by freeny? if thats the play I think the blame is a bit arguable. I would say it can be pre determined. I know he's got the backup QB label, but that's like saying Big Ben should have been permanently benched after the Jags game because he was god awful. I know the equity/history of the QB's is different, but Case has been statistically just as good as big ben if not better this year.Just seems like Zim's got an itchy trigger finger for bridgewater... when our team has won 6 games in a row, and our QB mostly playing lights out and the team is behind Case. makes zero sense to me. every QB has WTF moments, or bad passes throughout the course of the game, and that seems to be the biggest argument against him, that he's not PERFECT.
so is it a WTF moment or is a string of poor moments with a really WTF moment? like I said, it cant be predetermined. would I let him take the second half if he shit the bed in a first half and the game was within 1 score... maybe, 2 scores probably not, 3 scores probably as I wouldnt put Teddy into a shit situation. it really depends the overall picture surrounding the situation.
in the past 9 games, how many times has this happened? i guess it's plausible, but not likely? other than the skins game with two bad passes (in a game he passed for 300 yards and 4td's on the road for the first time since Daunte) he's been pretty damn solid for our team.
uhm... second half of the redskins game. if he had played like that in the first half it would have been Teddys game in the second half I am pretty sure. but he didnt play like that in the first half and that bought him some lee way. he followed it up with a pretty good outing this week so he gets more leash. if he continues to grow and minimize the WTF moments it will be tough to remove him, but it remains to be seen what it would ultimately take.
right- so this entire discussion is based on a game where he had 300 yards and 4 TD's on the road. yes i know the TD's were short, but he still executed them..because he had two bad passes?
2? Sometimes I wonder if people actually watch the game.
with all due respect, go pound sand. my god. nope we all f***ing post on this have a healthy debate, but nope we dont watch the effing game because it doesnt fit your agenda or we disagree with you.I hadnt posted in a long time. perhaps i'll stop again. peace out.
Case Vs redskins
what a garbage performance, clearly he should be benched.
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