Is Tom Brady The Goat?
Short answer, no.
Long answer, I'm not even sure he's the greatest Patriot ever (John Hannah). I'm not even sure Brady makes my top 100 players of all time. He's probably not in my top ten QBs of all time. Ask yourself this, put him on the Cardinals next year and does their win total go up? If he's coached by Marvin Lewis does he win one SB?
Provocative take. I don't agree, but provocative nonetheless.
Barr, I get your point, but I could say the same thing about Joe Montana...take him away from the 49'ers and put him in Cleveland, does he even have a career?
All players are part of their teams, coaches and organizational systems. Would Rodgers fare any better in Jacksonville a decade ago?
As for a QB in a specific system, yes, Brady is the best I've ever seen. His record and team record bear that out.
its a team sport so its damn hard to talk about individual efforts and how much of a factor they have on the overall success of the team, but Brady has to be in any discussion of all time NFL greats. he has moxy and smarts that dont show up anywhere in the stat colums, but his resume is built on those traits. I think he is a smug prick, but I cant begrudge him his teams successes and the recognition of his part in those successes.
Brady can't hold Montana's jock...4-0 in Super Bowls, 11 TDs, zero picks, 3 SB MVPs...
This question came up on NFL Network this morning...Schrager went with Jim Brown, Burelson went with Deion...can't recall what Brandt had...
To me, the Goat has to be a game changer in that they either changed threat the game was played or accomplished something no one prior had done...
Lawrence Taylor changed the game...Jim Brown took the the single season rushing record and bested it by 500 yards...Bart Starr won more league championships and so did Otto Graham...
Couldn't hold Montana's jock? Please.
Brady has made it to the Super Bowl in over half his seasons (!!!) and over twice as many times as Montana. He's the GOAT.
From Wikipedia:
Brady has been honored with four Super Bowl MVP awards (Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, XLIX, and LI), the most ever by a player, and has won three league MVP awards (2007, 2010, 2017), with his latter wins for each award making him the oldest player to have won them. Brady has also been selected to 14 Pro Bowls, and has led his team to more division titles (16) than any other quarterback in NFL history. He is fourth all-time in career passing yards for regular season play, third in career touchdown passes, and fourth in career passer rating. For regular season and postseason combined, Brady is first all-time in career passing yards and touchdown passes.
The only quarterback to reach 200 wins in the regular season, Brady is the winningest quarterback in NFL history. With a postseason record of 30–10, he is first all-time in playoff wins and appearances for an NFL player. Brady has led the Patriots to an NFL-record eight consecutive AFC championship games since 2011 (thirteen overall), and has never had a losing season in his entire career.
NFL recordsRegular season (career)
- Most games won by a quarterback: 207
- Best touchdown to interception ratio in a season: 28:2
- Most wins on the road by a quarterback: 92
- Most wins at home by a quarterback: 115
- Only quarterback to have three consecutive games with 300+ passing yards, 3+ Touchdown-passes and 0 interceptions
- Oldest QB to lead the league in passing yards: 40
- Most yards in a single season for a quarterback aged 40 and older (age 40): 4,577
- Most touchdown passes with one team: 517
- Oldest QB to win NFL MVP: 40
- Most career passing yards with one team: 70,514
Postseason (career)
|
Super Bowl (career)
- Most touchdown passes: 18
- Most passing yards: 2,838
- Most passes completed: 256
- Most passes attempted: 392
- Most wins as starting QB: 6
- Most passes completed in first half of a single Super Bowl: 20 (XLIX)
- Most passes completed in a single Super Bowl: 43 (LI)
- Most passes attempted in a single Super Bowl: 62 (LI)
- Most passing yards in a single Super Bowl: 505 (LII)
- Most Super Bowl appearances: 9
- Most passing attempts without an interception in a single Super Bowl: 48 (XLII & LII)
- Oldest QB to start a Super Bowl: 41 yrs 6 months 0 days
- Oldest QB to win a Super Bowl: 41 yrs 6 months 0 days
- Most consecutive completions in a single Super Bowl: 16 (XLVI)
- Most wins as a player: 6.
LOL this site wouldn't even let me fit all of his NFL records into a single post.
He has also accomplished all of the above with a constantly rotating cast of players on offense, and a lot of times average to below average RBs/WRs. If you don't agree, please post a list of accomplishments that is greater than the list above.
Brady has 1 TD pass in two Super Bowl wins vs the Rams...
from
https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/01/53-super-bowl-stats-that-show-tom-brady-is-the-goat/
53. Age when he won his first Super Bowl: 24. He was the second youngest quarterback to win a Super Bowl.
52. Age in his most recent Super Bowl: 41. The
oldest quarterback to start a Super Bowl. The second oldest? Tom Brady
(in Super Bowl LII against the Philadelphia Eagles).
24. Most passes without an interception: 28. (Brady hit that mark twice.)
17. Fact: Brady has more Super Bowl passing yards than 32 former first round quarterbacks had in their entire NFL career.
4. Percentage of Super Bowl appearances: 50 percent. Brady has been to the Super Bowl 9 of his 18 years in the league.
2. Number of Super Bowl rings: Five. Only the Pittsburgh Steelers as an entire franchise have more rings (6). (now 6)
Can't stand him, but can't argue 50% superbowl attendance. He has only lost to the eagles and the giants (twice).
there was a stat a year or so ago that Brady had more playoff wins in his career than the browns had team wins... or something crazy like that. I dont remember it exactly, but it was astounding to think that one person could have that much playoff success.... and that one franchise could have that much suckage. maybe it was Brady had more wins than the Bills franchise... no matter it was astounding.
Brady has spent his entire career playing for a man who began training for his career as a HC at the age of 8...He's average at best without him...
I have no doubt he is, and this year I sort of "re-programmed" my mind to realize that disliking an athlete just because we are weary of him and his team is ridiculous. He's on a par with Jordan and Gretzky and I think in 15 years we will be looking back on this era with nostalgia.
The real test will be to see what the Patriots do when he finally retires. I would really like to see Belichick remain as coach after Brady, to see who made the biggest difference - but I think BB will wisely hang it up at the same time as Brady, so we will never see which of the two was the key ingredient.
fun fact.... belicheat is the last coach to win a playoff game with the browns.
@"BarrNone55" said: Brady has 1 TD pass in two Super Bowl wins vs the Rams...I think this confirms my belief that some people think a QB only had a good drive/game if they throw the TD pass. So, that beautiful throw to Gronk that set the Patriots at the 1 yard line had nothing to do with Brady because Sony ran it in on the next play? It was the same thing in the AFCCG. A QB that sets up easy TDs for his teammates is a very good (and in this case great) QB.
You total QB stat guys...
I always think these posts that try to see who is THE greatest always come off as, "Well my dad could beat your dad up" ... "No my dad can definitely beat your dad up".
Brady is 100% in the conversation for GOAT. I think the majority of fans probably would consider Brady to be the GOAT without waffling. I think Brees career is an example of an elite QB that has had a defense, and has also not had a defense. Belichek definitely makes Brady's numbers go up, but that doesn't take anything away from Brady. I think the chiefs offense shows what happens when you have an elite offensive mind and switch from a midlevel QB to one capable of an MVP-caliber season. Brady definitely makes Belicheks numbers go up. If you switched Brady and Goff, the Rams are winning that game and not the Pats.
Brady is clearly a game changer. He just makes things look so easy that it appears like he has it easy. Elite QBs don't have to make game changing throws. Football isn't about spectacular looking plays, it's about not having to make them. Elite QBs know what the highest % options are on every play, even as the defense is changing it's looks midplay. They just keep making the right decision over and over again.
@"BarrNone55" said: Brady has 1 TD pass in two Super Bowl wins vs the Rams...I bolded the key takeaway in your sentence.
He also threw for 505 yards and 3 TDs in last year's SB and lost.
You know what's crazy? When you are around long enough and are great enough that you start having rematches in the Super Bowl against teams (Rams, Eagles) that were good enough to get to the Super Bowl originally, then went through years of rebuilding and multiple head coaches, and finally became good enough again to make it back to the Super Bowl, and yet you've been there throughout that entire time.
Not sure how you can't see Brady as the GOAT, IMO. 6 Superbowl rings. 9 Superbowl appearances. 6-3 record in Superbowls. Its staggering.
@"medaille" said: I always think these posts that try to see who is THE greatest always come off as, "Well my dad could beat your dad up" ... "No my dad can definitely beat your dad up".Brady is 100% in the conversation for GOAT. I think the majority of fans probably would consider Brady to be the GOAT without waffling. I think Brees career is an example of an elite QB that has had a defense, and has also not had a defense. Belichek definitely makes Brady's numbers go up, but that doesn't take anything away from Brady. I think the chiefs offense shows what happens when you have an elite offensive mind and switch from a midlevel QB to one capable of an MVP-caliber season. Brady definitely makes Belicheks numbers go up. If you switched Brady and Goff, the Rams are winning that game and not the Pats.
Brady is clearly a game changer. He just makes things look so easy that it appears like he has it easy. Elite QBs don't have to make game changing throws. Football isn't about spectacular looking plays, it's about not having to make them. Elite QBs know what the highest % options are on every play, even as the defense is changing it's looks midplay. They just keep making the right decision over and over again.
Even the bad decisions are recognized. The INT he threw was a duck, but it seems that he recognized his error in reading the D a split second late and tried to pull it back.
He makes spectacular throws as well, that feather to Gronk that set up the TD was amazing. right where it had to be at the perfect time. Not taking sacks, not killing drives.
Can't stand him, but he certainly is in the conversation
Edit Post (mod action — author will see a notice)
Warn Poster
Suspend User (3 days)
The user will be suspended for 3 days and will receive an email with the reason and information about how to appeal.