Vikings better hope they're right about draft and PFF is Wrong

Teams picking OL to fill their need is not INSANE.  It’s been talked about for years since the rules changes favored the pass.  Protecting the QB is vital and worthy of a first round pick.

I think the poster that talked about Ricks “need” to have 10 picks strikes to the heart of his draft process and it’s shortfalls.  Needing 10 picks tells me he’s not sure about his picking and needs at least 10 to get some talent.  Playing the odds instead of knowing what he’s doing.  

The OL had better be addressed before the season starts or that $84 million investment will be in some real danger of becoming a clipboard holder in a cast.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

he still needs to take the best football players when he does get to pick,  clearly Rick (and many others) had Hughes rated higher than what was available at 30.  we are hearing that a trade down for value wasnt available so he stayed put and got a potentially great football player.  just because he didnt get the OLman that you, i, or some others thought he needed to take doesnt make his approach wrong.  the draft didnt fall the way we wanted,  but he still improved our team,  and likely did a better job than if he had reached for an OLman,  or taken a poor value trade down.  In no way did I think he should have traded up in the first.  we arent that deep that we can afford to lose another top half of the draft selection or an even higher selection next year.   

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  they added a couple vets, and lost a couple vets,  but also added a nice OT which should pay higher dividends long term than any G that was available at 30 would ever do.

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year. The run on lineman was obvious for all of us to see and they guessed wrong. Then Rick tries to justify the O'Neill pick by saying they didn't anticipate the run and picked the best O'Lineman available at #62. Not the BPA, but the best O'Lineman available which contradicts his own draft strategy. He gambled that there would be a starter at #62 even though it was apparent to all of us what was transpiring in front of our eyes. O'Neill is also a Left Tackle who I think they will leave at Left Tackle as they work on building his strength up to eventually replace Reiff and his big contract. I don't see the Vikings moving him to the right side of the line which is where we needed to upgrade our talent for this season. Williams, Daniels, and Hernandez were all first round talents that were available at 30. Vikings didn't like Hernandez due to scheme fit, but they did like Williams who would've have gone much higher this year had it not been for his injury plagued 2017 Junior season with the Meniscus Tear and Ligament Sprains in his left knee. He was a First Team All-American after his Sophomore Season and a higher rated prospect compared to Hughes on most Top 100 Prospect lists. I guess we will see what happens once the season starts but I'm not feeling good about the current state of the right side of our offensive line for this year. 

i was with you on wanting to see C/G or T/G in the first,  but I dont think anybody outside of Nelson merited that high of a selection.  Maybe Wynn with his T/G flexibility,  I am fine with how this turns out.  I think the team had a fallback plan in place when they took Hughes,  hell they had to have one in place or they would have weighted OG much higher on their board.   I am wondering why everybody is overlooking Compton and the philly guy,  are they that shitty that their addition to the roster is completely ignored?  It would have been nice to get more young affordable blood on the line,  I doubt they are looking to replace Reiff anytime soon,  I actually see them looking to replace Remmers before Reiff.  I cant speculate on those others that they passed on,  either way nobody can judge a draft until players get a chance to show what they can offer,   and we dont know what changes to expect from Flipper so I am moving on and waiting to see what we end up with in Sept before I get to pissy on Rick for following his plan.  I think the right side will be OK, as long as we dont get a bunch of injuries.  Hill and Isidora should be improved with another offseason,  and flipper showed that he schemes very well to cover up warts in his offense.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"TBro" said:

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year.

At the expense of a starting offensive lineman...  you mean to say the Vikings were GUARANTEED a starting OG if they just took one of the guys that were left at #30?
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me...  some of you are acting like we would have gotten a legit Day 1 starter at RG if we had just taken "Player X".  There are no guarantees in the draft.  None.

We'll see. I have a feeling #33 pick Austin Corbett would have started here immediately; he might start at LT for the Browns, who have a better line than we do. #34 pick Will Hernandez is a probable starter for the Giants.

@"Poiple" said:
There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up.
I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

Were CBs that scarce? 29 were drafted, some of the later ones were pretty good. DJ Reed, very similar to Hughes, was drafted early in round 5,  Anthony Everett - Bryant McKinnie's nephew, yay!! - was picked in the 4th, Parry Nickerson (fastest CB in this draft) in the 6th. Undersized CBs with potential as nickels were plentiful in rounds 4-6 - the three above, plus Avonte Maddox, Taron Johnson, Darius Philips, Tremon Smith.  Other teams pick their nickel back late day 2 or day 3 and train them; we picked one in the 1st - and I'm sure he will still need 2 years of training.
Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?

@"greediron" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"TBro" said:

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year.

At the expense of a starting offensive lineman...  you mean to say the Vikings were GUARANTEED a starting OG if they just took one of the guys that were left at #30?
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me...  some of you are acting like we would have gotten a legit Day 1 starter at RG if we had just taken "Player X".  There are no guarantees in the draft.  None.

We'll see. I have a feeling #33 pick Austin Corbett would have started here immediately; he might start at LT for the Browns, who have a better line than we do. #34 pick Will Hernandez is a probable starter for the Giants.

@"Poiple" said:
There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up.
I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

Were CBs that scarce? 29 were drafted, some of the later ones were pretty good. DJ Reed, very similar to Hughes, was drafted early in round 5,  Anthony Everett - Bryant McKinnie's nephew, yay!! - was picked in the 4th, Parry Nickerson (fastest CB in this draft) in the 6th. Undersized CBs with potential as nickels were plentiful in rounds 4-6 - the three above, plus Avonte Maddox, Taron Johnson, Darius Philips, Tremon Smith.  Other teams pick their nickel back late day 2 or day 3 and train them; we picked one in the 1st - and I'm sure he will still need 2 years of training.
Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?

Lol, now that is some seriously weird conspiracy theory right there.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"TBro" said:

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year.

At the expense of a starting offensive lineman...  you mean to say the Vikings were GUARANTEED a starting OG if they just took one of the guys that were left at #30?
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me...  some of you are acting like we would have gotten a legit Day 1 starter at RG if we had just taken "Player X".  There are no guarantees in the draft.  None.

We'll see. I have a feeling #33 pick Austin Corbett would have started here immediately; he might start at LT for the Browns, who have a better line than we do. #34 pick Will Hernandez is a probable starter for the Giants.

@"Poiple" said:
There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up.
I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

Were CBs that scarce? 29 were drafted, some of the later ones were pretty good. DJ Reed, very similar to Hughes, was drafted early in round 5,  Anthony Everett - Bryant McKinnie's nephew, yay!! - was picked in the 4th, Parry Nickerson (fastest CB in this draft) in the 6th. Undersized CBs with potential as nickels were plentiful in rounds 4-6 - the three above, plus Avonte Maddox, Taron Johnson, Darius Philips, Tremon Smith.  Other teams pick their nickel back late day 2 or day 3 and train them; we picked one in the 1st - and I'm sure he will still need 2 years of training.
Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Poiple" said: There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up. I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

I think some people are getting confused about what was actually said...  Stephenson said "There was a big run, obviously, I’ve never seen that many offensive guards go this high in the draft." 
And Spielman had this to say "There’s not much talk or discussion on it at all, but I know sitting there watching peel off at the top of the second round, they were flying off the board quicker than any time I can remember." 
The whole "surprised" aspect that keeps getting brought up wasn't a direct quote from either Stephenson or Spielman.  That was conjured up by the author of the article.  It's been said multiple times since the draft... this was a strange draft with so many C/OG prospects going in the top 50 picks.  There were 4 in the first round alone and then another 3 taken in the first 5 picks of the second round.  So 7 interior offensive linemen were taken in the first 37 picks of the draft.  That is INSANE.
Let me say it again...  THAT... IS...  INSANE.  Show me a draft where this have EVER happened.  You'll probably need to go back 30+ years.
In a typical draft, you'll see maybe 5-7 interior guys gone in the first 100 picks.  I don't think any of the guys taken in the 20's or early 2nd round of this draft are better prospects than Forrest Lamp, Pat Elflein, Cody Whitehair, or a host of others were in the last two drafts.
In 2017, there were no interior OL drafted in the 1st round.  The first one taken was Forrest Lamp at #38, then Ethan Pocic at #58, Dion Dawkins at #63, Taylor Moton at #64, Pat Elflein at #70, and Dan Feeney at #71.  The next interior offensive lineman wasn't taken until the early 4th round.  So that's 6 interior OL taken in the first 100 picks.  The run didn't start until late 2nd round and ended early 3rd round.
In 2016, you had C Ryan Kelly go #18 and OG Joshua Garnett go #28.  These guys were better prospects than anyone besides Quenton Nelson in the 2018 draft.  Then the next interior OL wasn't taken until #50 when Nick Martin came off the board.  He was followed by C/OG Cody Whitehair at #56, C Max Tuerk at #66, OG Joe Thuney at #78, and C Graham Glasgow at #95.  So that's 7 interior OL taken in the first 100 picks.  The run didn't start until mid-2nd round and ended in the middle of the 3rd round.
In 2015, you had bust C Cameron Erving go #19 and decent starter OG Laken Tomlinson go #28.  That's it for the first round...  the next interior OL didn't go until #49 when OG Mitch Morse was drafted.  OG Ali Marpet then went at #61, OG Jeremiah Poutasi went #66, OG A.J. Cann went #67, C Hroniss Grasu went #71, and OG John Miller went #81.  So that's 8 interior OL drafted in the first 100 picks.  After 2 first round interior OL were taken, the run didn't start until the mid-2nd round and ended in the early 3rd.
Just in the last 3 drafts, you would have expected some good interior OL prospects to be available at #62.  I am willing to bet if we looked back at the last 10 drafts, that would be true as well.  The way this draft went in the first two rounds is unprecedented with 5 QBs taken and 7 C/OG taken in the first 40 picks.  That NEVER happens.
It was a strange draft.  That's the bottomline.  I guess we can keep ragging on Spielman and the Vikings coaching staff for not satisfying your desire for a 1st round pick at OG, but history shows those guys aren't typically drafted in the first round.  Most are drafted in the 2nd-4th because there are typically QB, RB, WR, OT, CB, and pass rushers that are more valued positions and hence...  get taken earlier in the draft.

“Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?“

Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmm, looks like Vikings have a really urgent need at CB “
Vikings: “ With the 30th overall pick we select a CB “
Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmmm, looks like the Vikings have a really urgent need at OL now”
 B) 

@"Maple Surple" said: “Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?“

Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmm, looks like Vikings have a really urgent need at CB “
Vikings: “ With the 30th overall pick we select a CB “
Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmmm, looks like the Vikings have a really urgent need at OL now”
 B) 

I was thinking more along the line that Newman's absence made it easier to "sell" the public on the idea of picking a CB at the top of the draft for the 3rd time in 6 years. How many stories about the Hughes pick included something like, "Without Terence Newman, the Vikings only have 3 experienced cornerbacks"? Now, unless there are injuries, Hughes will be our 5th CB.
Of course, that implies that Spielman and Zimmer were planning to go CB for a while.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Maple Surple" said: “Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?“

Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmm, looks like Vikings have a really urgent need at CB “
Vikings: “ With the 30th overall pick we select a CB “
Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmmm, looks like the Vikings have a really urgent need at OL now”
 B) 

I was thinking more along the line that Newman's absence made it easier to "sell" the public on the idea of picking a CB at the top of the draft for the 3rd time in 6 years. How many stories about the Hughes pick included something like, "Without Terence Newman, the Vikings only have 3 experienced cornerbacks"? Now, unless there are injuries, Hughes will be our 5th CB.
Of course, that implies that Spielman and Zimmer were planning to go CB for a while.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Maple Surple" said: “Funny how they didn't re-sign Terence Newman until a few days after the draft...his absence helped make it seem like CB was a really urgent need on draft day, didn't it?“

Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmm, looks like Vikings have a really urgent need at CB “
Vikings: “ With the 30th overall pick we select a CB “
Rest of NFL: “ Hmmmmm, looks like the Vikings have a really urgent need at OL now”
 B) 

I was thinking more along the line that Newman's absence made it easier to "sell" the public on the idea of picking a CB at the top of the draft for the 3rd time in 6 years. How many stories about the Hughes pick included something like, "Without Terence Newman, the Vikings only have 3 experienced cornerbacks"? Now, unless there are injuries, Hughes will be our 5th CB.
Of course, that implies that Spielman and Zimmer were planning to go CB for a while.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

What's back handed about the truth?  Seriously your love of case has clouded your perception of the past.

love of case?  more backhanded insults.   Im wondering what your aze to vrins is.  I give a man credit for doing a job well.  There are a dew of you here that get creative with the truth just to fit your version.

screw you.  you know that you have come to his rescue anytime somebody has said anything even remotely close to disparaging about keenum.  go ahead and start that poll as was suggested by another poster.  I am not alone in saying that case was far from perfect last season.  I have said on many occasions that he played better than I expected,  and even stood up for him in some instances,  but I am not going to blow smoke and say that he wasnt part of the issue with our offense at times including holding the ball to long or locking onto targets.  I am done with you on this matter,  keenum is gone and 2017 is over.  

I'll try and divert back to OP:

When the vast majority of us reflect back before the draft the Vikings showed strong interest in both Price and Ragnow.  Not as much in Wynn but I thought he was the best fit and I think he was a real target for us at 30.  I didn't see one pre draft report that showed those 3 all gone by pick 23.

Even though a lot of poster liked Hernandez ( I know I did initially) it is clear the Vikings did not deem him as a fit for us, we will see.  I don't know if I would call it a risk to pass on a guy that we didn't rate very high for our team like Hernandez.  I am assuming the Giants run a man blocking scheme so we won't even be able to judge because of scheme.  I think their is a higher risk of just taking Hernandez and trying the square peg then to draft a guy that we deemed as a perfect scheme fit in hughes and even O'Neil.  O'Neil's strength is his movement skills.  His highlights show a guy that can move his feet and get downfield very easily which is ideal for our ZBS.   

Back to the big 3 above - Price/Ragnow/Wynn - did folks want us to move up for them pre draft or during?  I know I was looking at Wynn but we did not even have the ammo to move up past 23 and grab Wynn - we would have had to given up our 1st, 2nd and 4th and maybe more and still missed out on all our targets.  Plus you need a trade partner.

Once those 3 were gone I think our whole strategy changed and we went BPA at a position of need in CB - which many of us predicted pre draft.  Hughes is going to see the field a lot more then people think because Zimmer is going 4 CB's and rotations with a guy like Newman/Alex.  I can even see Zimmer moving Waynes in the slot on some plays and sliding a guy like Alexander or Hughes outside on some plays.  Hughes looks like a utility knife for Zimmer's secondary that he has been looking for the last few years.  I can see us playing a corner in place of a 2nd safety or even a second LB'er.  It is clear on defense that we don't value ILB very highly because we keep decreasing those snaps in favor of the above.

I don't think we got "lucky" the way the draft fell but I do think we stuck to our plan of BPA at several positions of need in both CB/OT in the first two rounds.  I'll add the ole saying "sometimes its better to be good then lucky", yep I reversed it :)

@"MaroonBells" said:

Well...it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was a strange draft in that no one could've predicted that so many interior linemen would go off the board in the top two rounds. When, in fact, many did. Brandt had 11 interior offensive linemen ranked in his top 64. 11! Now THAT'S insane. Mayock had 9. So I'd argue that the CLASS was strange, not the draft. Those interior guys went about where they were supposed to.

I said many times that I would prefer a tackle, but that the real VALUE in this draft was at G/C, and most of those guys were clumped in the 20 to 40 range. And, hey, how fortunate are we to have a pick right in that value cluster? That we weren't able to tap into that great interior class is a source of frustration for many. It's understandable.

That said, if TBro's right in that we decided before the draft to move Remmers inside, then what we did makes a lot more sense: guard was not a pressing need and there were no tackles worth taking there. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. And if it is, our draft looks a lot better. We didn't reach for anyone and we drafted several promising players. 

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Well...it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was a strange draft in that no one could've predicted that so many interior linemen would go off the board in the top two rounds. When, in fact, many did. Brandt had 11 interior offensive linemen ranked in his top 64. 11! Now THAT'S insane. Mayock had 9. So I'd argue that the CLASS was strange, not the draft. Those interior guys went about where they were supposed to.

I said many times that I would prefer a tackle, but that the real VALUE in this draft was at G/C, and most of those guys were clumped in the 20 to 40 range. And, hey, how fortunate are we to have a pick right in that value cluster? That we weren't able to tap into that great interior class is a source of frustration for many. It's understandable.

That said, if TBro's right in that we decided before the draft to move Remmers inside, then what we did makes a lot more sense: guard was not a pressing need and there were no tackles worth taking there. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. And if it is, our draft looks a lot better. We didn't reach for anyone and we drafted several promising players. 

I am suggesting that.  You reference Gil Brandt's top 150...  well 7 of those 11interior OL in his rankings were clustered between 35 and 64....  not 20-40.  Most of them went much earlier than expected and one (Crosby) dropped big time.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Well...it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was a strange draft in that no one could've predicted that so many interior linemen would go off the board in the top two rounds. When, in fact, many did. Brandt had 11 interior offensive linemen ranked in his top 64. 11! Now THAT'S insane. Mayock had 9. So I'd argue that the CLASS was strange, not the draft. Those interior guys went about where they were supposed to.

I said many times that I would prefer a tackle, but that the real VALUE in this draft was at G/C, and most of those guys were clumped in the 20 to 40 range. And, hey, how fortunate are we to have a pick right in that value cluster? That we weren't able to tap into that great interior class is a source of frustration for many. It's understandable.

That said, if TBro's right in that we decided before the draft to move Remmers inside, then what we did makes a lot more sense: guard was not a pressing need and there were no tackles worth taking there. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. And if it is, our draft looks a lot better. We didn't reach for anyone and we drafted several promising players. 

I am suggesting that.  You reference Gil Brandt's top 150...  well 7 of those 11interior OL in his rankings were clustered between 35 and 64....  not 20-40.  Most of them went much earlier than expected and one (Crosby) dropped big time.

To clarify, I was the one who said they were clustered between 20 and 40, not Gil. And that's exactly where they piled up. Ragnow, Price, Wynn, Corbett, Hernandez, Daniels and Braden Smith all went between 20 and 39. You might be able to argue that Corbett and Smith went a little higher than they were predicted to go, but not much. Corbett especially was getting late 1st round buzz. The point is that it was fairly clear before the draft that the meat of this great interior class would be off the board by 62. And that held true. After Daniels went at 39, there would be another 40 selections before the next interior guy was taken. Not that any of it really matters. If we decided Remmers would move inside before the draft, it's mostly irrelevant. 

@"TBro" said:

As much as I would like to give them credit for that strategy, I don't think it was the case. I tried to convince myself, you, and others that it was a calculated plan and why they took Hughes. However, with the lack of tackle depth, and guys like Kolton Miller going off the board at 15, it wouldn't have made sense to stick with that approach. The quality of interior line prospects was outstanding in this draft and that certainly was proven right by the teams that invested high draft picks on those players in the first two rounds. Rick admitting they were surprised by the "run" on interior lineman didn't blindside them. It was obvious what was going on right in front of their eyes as those picks were methodically selected ahead of us. I think they had Mike Hughes as their #1 selection from the minute the first round started and felt they could get an O'Line starter with their second pick. As we know, that didn't work out and Rick was forced into taking the Best Offensive Lineman left on the board who is a fantastic developmental prospect for Left Tackle, but won't fix out issues for this season on the right side. 

@"TBro" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Well...it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was a strange draft in that no one could've predicted that so many interior linemen would go off the board in the top two rounds. When, in fact, many did. Brandt had 11 interior offensive linemen ranked in his top 64. 11! Now THAT'S insane. Mayock had 9. So I'd argue that the CLASS was strange, not the draft. Those interior guys went about where they were supposed to.

I said many times that I would prefer a tackle, but that the real VALUE in this draft was at G/C, and most of those guys were clumped in the 20 to 40 range. And, hey, how fortunate are we to have a pick right in that value cluster? That we weren't able to tap into that great interior class is a source of frustration for many. It's understandable.

That said, if TBro's right in that we decided before the draft to move Remmers inside, then what we did makes a lot more sense: guard was not a pressing need and there were no tackles worth taking there. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. And if it is, our draft looks a lot better. We didn't reach for anyone and we drafted several promising players. 

I am suggesting that.  You reference Gil Brandt's top 150...  well 7 of those 11interior OL in his rankings were clustered between 35 and 64....  not 20-40.  Most of them went much earlier than expected and one (Crosby) dropped big time.

To clarify, I was the one who said they were clustered between 20 and 40, not Gil. And that's exactly where they piled up. Ragnow, Price, Wynn, Corbett, Hernandez, Daniels and Braden Smith all went between 20 and 39. You might be able to argue that Corbett and Smith went a little higher than they were predicted to go, but not much. Corbett especially was getting late 1st round buzz. The point is that it was fairly clear before the draft that the meat of this great interior class would be off the board by 62. And that held true. After Daniels went at 39, there would be another 40 selections before the next interior guy was taken. Not that any of it really matters. If we decided Remmers would move inside before the draft, it's mostly irrelevant. 

As much as I would like to give them credit for that strategy, I don't think it was the case. I tried to convince myself, you, and others that it was a calculated plan and why they took Hughes. However, with the lack of tackle depth, and guys like Kolton Miller going off the board at 15, it wouldn't have made sense to stick with that approach. The quality of interior line prospects was outstanding in this draft and that certainly was proven right by the teams that invested high draft picks on those players in the first two rounds. Rick admitting they were surprised by the "run" on interior lineman didn't blindside them. It was obvious what was going on right in front of their eyes as those picks were methodically selected ahead of us. I think they had Mike Hughes as their #1 selection from the minute the first round started and felt they could get an O'Line starter with their second pick. As we know, that didn't work out and Rick was forced into taking the Best Offensive Lineman left on the board who is a fantastic developmental prospect for Left Tackle, but won't fix out issues for this season on the right side. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Well...it sounds as if you're suggesting that this was a strange draft in that no one could've predicted that so many interior linemen would go off the board in the top two rounds. When, in fact, many did. Brandt had 11 interior offensive linemen ranked in his top 64. 11! Now THAT'S insane. Mayock had 9. So I'd argue that the CLASS was strange, not the draft. Those interior guys went about where they were supposed to.

I said many times that I would prefer a tackle, but that the real VALUE in this draft was at G/C, and most of those guys were clumped in the 20 to 40 range. And, hey, how fortunate are we to have a pick right in that value cluster? That we weren't able to tap into that great interior class is a source of frustration for many. It's understandable.

That said, if TBro's right in that we decided before the draft to move Remmers inside, then what we did makes a lot more sense: guard was not a pressing need and there were no tackles worth taking there. So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's true. And if it is, our draft looks a lot better. We didn't reach for anyone and we drafted several promising players. 

I am suggesting that.  You reference Gil Brandt's top 150...  well 7 of those 11interior OL in his rankings were clustered between 35 and 64....  not 20-40.  Most of them went much earlier than expected and one (Crosby) dropped big time.

To clarify, I was the one who said they were clustered between 20 and 40, not Gil. And that's exactly where they piled up. Ragnow, Price, Wynn, Corbett, Hernandez, Daniels and Braden Smith all went between 20 and 39. You might be able to argue that Corbett and Smith went a little higher than they were predicted to go, but not much. Corbett especially was getting late 1st round buzz. The point is that it was fairly clear before the draft that the meat of this great interior class would be off the board by 62. And that held true. After Daniels went at 39, there would be another 40 selections before the next interior guy was taken. Not that any of it really matters. If we decided Remmers would move inside before the draft, it's mostly irrelevant. 

As much as I would like to give them credit for that strategy, I don't think it was the case. I tried to convince myself, you, and others that it was a calculated plan and why they took Hughes. However, with the lack of tackle depth, and guys like Kolton Miller going off the board at 15, it wouldn't have made sense to stick with that approach. The quality of interior line prospects was outstanding in this draft and that certainly was proven right by the teams that invested high draft picks on those players in the first two rounds. Rick admitting they were surprised by the "run" on interior lineman didn't blindside them. It was obvious what was going on right in front of their eyes as those picks were methodically selected ahead of us. I think they had Mike Hughes as their #1 selection from the minute the first round started and felt they could get an O'Line starter with their second pick. As we know, that didn't work out and Rick was forced into taking the Best Offensive Lineman left on the board who is a fantastic developmental prospect for Left Tackle, but won't fix out issues for this season on the right side. 

We'll see. I think there's still a very good chance that dino-arms moves inside and starts at RG, where he's much better suited. That's a nice competition at RG between Isadora, Remmers and Compton. Easton, Gossett and Andrews compete for LG. Then Hill, O'Neill and Collins compete for the RT spot. If O'Neill doesn't win that, then they'll probably just put him on the left right away to backup Reiff.

Vikings typically keep 9 OL. So maybe...

LT - Reiff, O'Neill
LG - Easton, Gossett
C - Elflein, Easton
RG - Remmers, Isadora
RT - Hill, Collins

A very experienced Compton doesn't make this list, so I it's possible that if Isadora beats out Remmers, Remmers is released and Compton stays. Or we try to sneak Gossett onto the PS. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

after the mash unit approach to OL last year,  I think Zim should consider keeping 10 OL this year to avoid having to reshuffle the deck as soon as we have 2 starters out.   There has to be another position that we dont need as much depth (thinking LB since we rarely play 3)

@"JimmyinSD" said:

after the mash unit approach to OL last year,  I think Zim should consider keeping 10 OL this year to avoid having to reshuffle the deck as soon as we have 2 starters out.   There has to be another position that we dont need as much depth (thinking LB since we rarely play 3)