Vikings better hope they're right about draft and PFF is Wrong

@"greediron" said:

@"FSUVike" said: I think you guys are missing my point. Or I'm explaining it poorly.

When you're at the bottom of every round and the runs start at a position you have your eyes on with players you like you have to be ready to react.

Pittsburgh, New England, and....are there really any other teams always picking low? Anywho, they don't always wait out the run and go BPA. They will also move up as needed. Even though the cost is high.

I feel that when the O-Line runs happened in both o the first 2 Rounds Rick wanted to move up by was surprised by how early those runs came and unwilling to pay the price to move up.

I'm not arguing against his performance this year. As others !mentioned some of these kids didn't grade higher than Elf but still went in the 1st. And the team lost a lot of depth in FA that needed replacing.

But in future years the team should have fewer needs and Rick will need to recognize runs when they start to happen and be willing to expend draft capital to go get his guy, regardless of position.

A very understated point.  I hear where you are coming from and it is a good theory as any here.  But yes, with fewer holes, we could do with less picks.  Or as Rick did this year, took more risks on high upside players.

all these arguments are made with 20/20 hind sight. if hughes turns into something and oneil starts at LT in 2019 and beyond this will have been a homerun draft. 

All I know is that the Vikings had a hole at right guard or right tackle.

The did need some corner depth.  They also probably knew they would bring back Newman too.

I do not understand why Zimmer is unable to get a corner later in the draft and polish him up.

He is good with the first round corners.  That is a concern for me and I know it is harder.

Isn't that his specialty?  Coaching corners?

I really hated to hear Spielman say he did not want to touch the picks next year.  WTF not?

He has at least an extra 3rd round comp pick coming for Keenum.

He also could get a few 7th rounders for Johnson, Stephen, and Brock or Lamur.

I like what the Bears, Saints, and Lions did.  They moved up to go get their guy.

The Vikings have 6 key players 29 or older.

Griffen, Joseph, Sendejo, Reiff, Remmers, and Smith.

Building for the future is nice when you are not very close to getting to the Super Bowl.

The time is NOW.  In 2 or 3 years several of these players could be declining.

The odds are not in their favor as NFL players start to decline at age 30.

But Rick Spielman wants to keep building for the future.

Great!

Meanwhile, the trophy case in Minnesota still does not have a Lombardi Trophy.

To me, the only job Rick has is to win a freaking Super Bowl.

Even if it is only one it will be more than enough for long suffering Vikings fans.

As an addendum, for those who are against trading future picks.

Why did he trade a 1st and 4th to get Bradford in 2016?

Was that an ALL IN move or was that just getting abused by Roseman (it was the latter)?

The team was further away from getting to the Super Bowl in 2016 than they are now.

But he wants to save his precious picks next year.

So he can trade down and accumulate more 7th round picks.

6 key players 29 or older is hardly and argument that supports trading away future draft picks IMO.  Ricks job is to keep this team loaded both for now and the future,  not pull a daniel snyder and put all his eggs in one basket for a one and done run at a superbowl.

it would be interesting to hear about all these proposed trades that people wanted Rick to make?  how far up were they wanting to go and what were they wanting to spend to get there?  it would have taken pretty much the rest of our draft, minus the 2nd rounder, to move up in the first to get into the OG movement.  or dipping into next years pick it would have likely taken our 2nd rounder and more to move from 30 to 20.  it didnt make sense then and it still doesnt to move up for a decent (not great) player.

Rick cant win with some people,  he gets blasted for making to many moves,  or reaching for players,  but then when he doesnt move up and reach for a player he fucked up?

Um, Mark, half that great Eagles O-Line is 30 or near to it.

As for developing CBs, he's clearly looking for unfinished guys with big upside vs. polished guys that he can trust on an island that will play right away but have significantly lower ceilings.

Look at Jackson that GB picked up. Good player, questionable speed. Heard one analyst after another worry that he'll need to play with a lot of cushion because he lacks the speed to close on guys that get by him. Doesn't sound like a Zimmer guy to me in that nobody can teach speed.

But the fudgers will start him right away. And I bet the first time Adam or Diggs get behind him they're endzone bound.

It's frustrating to not get the instant gratification that comes with a kid who can start right away. But the payoff of having the better player in two or three years is worth it. 

And the special ones like Hunter contribute right away.

@"JimmyinSD" said: 6 key players 29 or older is hardly and argument that supports trading away future draft picks IMO.  Ricks job is to keep this team loaded both for now and the future,  not pull a daniel snyder and put all his eggs in one basket for a one and done run at a superbowl.

it would be interesting to hear about all these proposed trades that people wanted Rick to make?  how far up were they wanting to go and what were they wanting to spend to get there?  it would have taken pretty much the rest of our draft, minus the 2nd rounder, to move up in the first to get into the OG movement.  or dipping into next years pick it would have likely taken our 2nd rounder and more to move from 30 to 20.  it didnt make sense then and it still doesnt to move up for a decent (not great) player.

Rick cant win with some people,  he gets blasted for making to many moves,  or reaching for players,  but then when he doesnt move up and reach for a player he fucked up?

One thing not mentioned much is that Spielman said there was a run on offensive linemen that surprised him. But it wasn't over when they picked. Why didn't they pick Austin Corbett, the Nevada G/T who was one of the most polished line prospects available? He was picked #33; would it have been a shameful reach to take him at #30?
The drafting of Ragnow, Price, and Wynn was the BEGINNING of the offensive line run. Spielman could have seen it happening and realized he wouldn't be able to wait until late round 2 or 3 to get a decent lineman. Those 3 went 20, 21, 23, but then offensive linemen were picked at 33, 34, 37, 39, and 50. Apparently Spielman thought, "Oh 3 linemen were picked earlier than I expected, I'm sure the rest will still be there for me to choose at #62"...

I've never suggested he should have moved up; for one thing, I couldn't guess what the cost would be, and Spielman hates giving up quantity for higher picks. But he opened himself to criticism by saying the run on linemen surprised him.
How would everyone feel if our first 2 picks had been:
1 G/T Austin Corbett, Nevada
2 DB  Justin Reid, Stanford
That's not projections, those were players available when we picked.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

Put up a poll and see how many of us thought your boy Case would hold the ball forever at times waiting for his first read to come open.

LOL!!!

I love the latest chapter (#12) being written for the "Ricky's EXCUSES Handbook".

Sooooo.... the Vikings were AWARE of the FACT that they would be drafting in the 30th slot in each round of the draft since the end of JANUARY, but only REALIZED that this  meant 29 selections would be made PRIOR to their pick on draft night??!! THAT'S an "EXCUSE" ? Wow.

Too funny. I swear, if the Vikings had the 1st pick and fucked it up, there would be a legion of fans EXCUSING it because "Ricky isn't accustomed to picking that high!"

As for my thoughts on this draft....head scratching is how I'd describe it. But, we'll have to wait at LEAST 2 seasons to judge. By 2021 at the latest, the proof will be on the field ( AND in the record book) instead of on a fan board.

It is funny, however, how the "waiting" period theme only seems to come up in response to a critical/negative comment on ANY draft pick. 

OPINIONS that the draft selection(s) were great, however, seem to be embraced, and even encouraged... but without any caveat about waiting to see what transpires on the field for the next 2-3 years before judgement. Interesting.  

But then again, what do I know. Apparently 2 playoff wins since 2006 (actually 2005, but that was BS, Before, well, you know) makes an organization a "perennial" Super Bowl contender, or so I've read ad nauseam. I happen to think that playoff record sucks ass.

 Yup, that  whole ONE consecutive playoff appearance (and once in a lifetime miracle win) is the envy of championship WINNING teams everywhere.

Just prove it on the field in the PLAYOFFS. Hanging your hat on # of starters or "Pro Bowl" drafted is becoming increasingly meaningless with the current streak of playoff impotence. 

The freaking Jaguar's had a MUCH more impressive playoff run than the Vikings last season, btw. Let's stop with all the self congratulatory celebrations and focus on wining a CHAMPIONSHIP. 

@"Wetlander" said:

@"FSUVike" said: TBro, Daniels went 9 picks later and has many of the functional strength questions that O'Neill has.

Something nobody is taking about so far: this was a real learning experience for Rick and Mike. They aren't used to picking this deep in the Draft. And it showed.

Lesson learned for future years as I'm sure they will be in this spot again for the next 2-3 years and hopefully longer.

I don't think this was inexperience in picking this late...  it was just a really weird draft with how some of these players came off the board.  First time in how long that 5 QBs were drafted in the first round...  then tell me the last draft where there were 4 OGs picked in the first round...
Most drafts will have a couple OTs go in the first and maybe 1-2 C/OGs in any given year, but to have four selected in the first round???  And then have 3 more C/OGs go in the first five picks of the 2nd round???  That's INSANE.
I really think that the Vikings were expecting at least one of Price, Ragnow, or Corbett to be there at 62.  I also think they expected Wynn to be available at #30 and I have a feeling they would considered taking him there.  When Wynn, Price, and Ragnow came off the board before their first round pick, I don't doubt for a second that the Vikings figured the next best OGs would drop into the latter half of the 2nd round.
They didn't...  but I would say it was more of a strange draft than anything the Vikings did wrong.

There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up.
I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

What's back handed about the truth?  Seriously your love of case has clouded your perception of the past.

@"Poiple" said: There are a couple of things dont sound right in all of this.  If they were surprised then they misguessed.  If they filled their second need first and werent able to fill their first need, they messed up. I think corner was a secondary need but there was fewer of them so they took one first and then got exposed when the rest of the lineman went away.

Maybe its a hard lesson about how to pick when you are picking last.  Get the guy you really need and want, FIRST.  Get it right.  Dont muck about. 
Sure the CB is or will probably be a fine player but the starting RT is a more pressing need than a #3-4 CB.  They guessed wrong and have to look elsewhere.  Not much mystery.

I think some people are getting confused about what was actually said...  Stephenson said "There was a big run, obviously, I’ve never seen that many offensive guards go this high in the draft." 
And Spielman had this to say "There’s not much talk or discussion on it at all, but I know sitting there watching peel off at the top of the second round, they were flying off the board quicker than any time I can remember." 
The whole "surprised" aspect that keeps getting brought up wasn't a direct quote from either Stephenson or Spielman.  That was conjured up by the author of the article.  It's been said multiple times since the draft... this was a strange draft with so many C/OG prospects going in the top 50 picks.  There were 4 in the first round alone and then another 3 taken in the first 5 picks of the second round.  So 7 interior offensive linemen were taken in the first 37 picks of the draft.  That is INSANE.
Let me say it again...  THAT... IS...  INSANE.  Show me a draft where this have EVER happened.  You'll probably need to go back 30+ years.
In a typical draft, you'll see maybe 5-7 interior guys gone in the first 100 picks.  I don't think any of the guys taken in the 20's or early 2nd round of this draft are better prospects than Forrest Lamp, Pat Elflein, Cody Whitehair, or a host of others were in the last two drafts.
In 2017, there were no interior OL drafted in the 1st round.  The first one taken was Forrest Lamp at #38, then Ethan Pocic at #58, Dion Dawkins at #63, Taylor Moton at #64, Pat Elflein at #70, and Dan Feeney at #71.  The next interior offensive lineman wasn't taken until the early 4th round.  So that's 6 interior OL taken in the first 100 picks.  The run didn't start until late 2nd round and ended early 3rd round.
In 2016, you had C Ryan Kelly go #18 and OG Joshua Garnett go #28.  These guys were better prospects than anyone besides Quenton Nelson in the 2018 draft.  Then the next interior OL wasn't taken until #50 when Nick Martin came off the board.  He was followed by C/OG Cody Whitehair at #56, C Max Tuerk at #66, OG Joe Thuney at #78, and C Graham Glasgow at #95.  So that's 7 interior OL taken in the first 100 picks.  The run didn't start until mid-2nd round and ended in the middle of the 3rd round.
In 2015, you had bust C Cameron Erving go #19 and decent starter OG Laken Tomlinson go #28.  That's it for the first round...  the next interior OL didn't go until #49 when OG Mitch Morse was drafted.  OG Ali Marpet then went at #61, OG Jeremiah Poutasi went #66, OG A.J. Cann went #67, C Hroniss Grasu went #71, and OG John Miller went #81.  So that's 8 interior OL drafted in the first 100 picks.  After 2 first round interior OL were taken, the run didn't start until the mid-2nd round and ended in the early 3rd.
Just in the last 3 drafts, you would have expected some good interior OL prospects to be available at #62.  I am willing to bet if we looked back at the last 10 drafts, that would be true as well.  The way this draft went in the first two rounds is unprecedented with 5 QBs taken and 7 C/OG taken in the first 40 picks.  That NEVER happens.
It was a strange draft.  That's the bottomline.  I guess we can keep ragging on Spielman and the Vikings coaching staff for not satisfying your desire for a 1st round pick at OG, but history shows those guys aren't typically drafted in the first round.  Most are drafted in the 2nd-4th because there are typically QB, RB, WR, OT, CB, and pass rushers that are more valued positions and hence...  get taken earlier in the draft.

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  

Do you stay up late dreaming up new backhanded insults... I mean compliments?  lol. some crazy insane shit ur smokin.

What's back handed about the truth?  Seriously your love of case has clouded your perception of the past.

love of case?  more backhanded insults.   Im wondering what your aze to vrins is.  I give a man credit for doing a job well.  There are a dew of you here that get creative with the truth just to fit your version.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

he still needs to take the best football players when he does get to pick,  clearly Rick (and many others) had Hughes rated higher than what was available at 30.  we are hearing that a trade down for value wasnt available so he stayed put and got a potentially great football player.  just because he didnt get the OLman that you, i, or some others thought he needed to take doesnt make his approach wrong.  the draft didnt fall the way we wanted,  but he still improved our team,  and likely did a better job than if he had reached for an OLman,  or taken a poor value trade down.  In no way did I think he should have traded up in the first.  we arent that deep that we can afford to lose another top half of the draft selection or an even higher selection next year.   

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  they added a couple vets, and lost a couple vets,  but also added a nice OT which should pay higher dividends long term than any G that was available at 30 would ever do.

@"TBro" said:

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year.

@"TBro" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"TBro" said: We can spend the rest of the offseason arguing Rick's draft strategy. I know I could because I started this thread and I'm still not happy with his approach. I don't care how good your Corners are, without a good pass rush they will be exposed. We saw it first hand the last quarter of the season and definitely in the playoffs when Griff was hurt and the Pass Rush became non-existent. Is starts up front on both sides of the ball and I don't think Rick has ever placed enough importance on building an Offensive Line through early round draft picks. He has always prided himself into thinking he can outsmart everyone else and find value in the lower rounds. That was the old model that doesn't work anymore. Too many teams are investing their high draft picks on offensive line talent. What's left are prospects who more than likely won't pan out. I won't even begin to list the late round offensive line talent failures we've had since he's been here. For every Pat Elflein, there are 10 TJ Clemmings and Willie Beavers that never made it. Clearly a lot of you feel differently by defending the Hughes pick and thinking the other career backups and developmental players we have for offensive line will be able to get it done. I don't agree because we didn't do what we needed to do and that was upgrading the starting 5 with better talent in this draft for 2018. We are in a window to win now and need to show some urgency. I think he failed to do that this year with the draft by over-evaluating existing offensive line players with a hope and prayer model they will somehow miraculously improve into solid starters when they haven't show any signs they are capable to do so.  

he still needs to take the best football players when he does get to pick,  clearly Rick (and many others) had Hughes rated higher than what was available at 30.  we are hearing that a trade down for value wasnt available so he stayed put and got a potentially great football player.  just because he didnt get the OLman that you, i, or some others thought he needed to take doesnt make his approach wrong.  the draft didnt fall the way we wanted,  but he still improved our team,  and likely did a better job than if he had reached for an OLman,  or taken a poor value trade down.  In no way did I think he should have traded up in the first.  we arent that deep that we can afford to lose another top half of the draft selection or an even higher selection next year.   

Our OL is not the shit show that its made out to be,  yes at times Keenum made them look better than they were,  but his damn holding the ball and waiting for his favorite target to come open created a fair amount of pressure as well.  they added a couple vets, and lost a couple vets,  but also added a nice OT which should pay higher dividends long term than any G that was available at 30 would ever do.

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year. The run on lineman was obvious for all of us to see and they guessed wrong. Then Rick tries to justify the O'Neill pick by saying they didn't anticipate the run and picked the best O'Lineman available at #62. Not the BPA, but the best O'Lineman available which contradicts his own draft strategy. He gambled that there would be a starter at #62 even though it was apparent to all of us what was transpiring in front of our eyes. O'Neill is also a Left Tackle who I think they will leave at Left Tackle as they work on building his strength up to eventually replace Reiff and his big contract. I don't see the Vikings moving him to the right side of the line which is where we needed to upgrade our talent for this season. Williams, Daniels, and Hernandez were all first round talents that were available at 30. Vikings didn't like Hernandez due to scheme fit, but they did like Williams who would've have gone much higher this year had it not been for his injury plagued 2017 Junior season with the Meniscus Tear and Ligament Sprains in his left knee. He was a First Team All-American after his Sophomore Season and a higher rated prospect compared to Hughes on most Top 100 Prospect lists. I guess we will see what happens once the season starts but I'm not feeling good about the current state of the right side of our offensive line for this year. 

@"Wetlander" said:

@"TBro" said:

I agree with you that they truly believed that Hughes was the best player available when they picked at 30, but it came at the expense of getting a starting lineman for this year. Not 2 years from now, this year.

At the expense of a starting offensive lineman...  you mean to say the Vikings were GUARANTEED a starting OG if they just took one of the guys that were left at #30?
This is where the whole argument falls apart for me...  some of you are acting like we would have gotten a legit Day 1 starter at RG if we had just taken "Player X".  There are no guarantees in the draft.  None.