The buzz seems to say Teddy

@"Jor-El" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"AGRforever" said: health in my opionion tosses Teddy out.  Id rather risk it on Sam knowing if he stays healthy like 2 yrs ago hes the best option.  if you want a more sure thing sign cousins or case. 

I thought I read at some point Sam's knee is feeling ok and it was debunked he was bone on bone? But based on DeFillipo's comments on mobility, I wonder about Sam. Maybe they'll decide to go with him being less mobile because of his arm and accuracy? 

Zim was asked about the knee in his season ending PC and he said that the issue for the surgery this year was not likely to be a career threatening issue going forward.  bone on bone would IMO certainly be a career threatening issue,  but he could have also been just being nice since Sam is slated to become a free agent and he didnt want to make any disparaging comments about a players health.

That's an interesting thought, because you would not do that - give an overly-strong endorsement of a player about to become a free agent - if you wanted him back. Sounds a bit like "buttering someone's bread", where a manager sings the praises of an employee that someone else is considering hiring away. But we're probably reading too much into every comment. Just as likely, it could mean Zimmer hopes Bradford will be his QB next year and was beginning the process of reassuring fans he will be healthy.

How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

Healthy Sam is a very good QB. but he's never healthy, so it's a invalid point.

besides, Guru has been saying he's 75/25 going to retire, so he's really out of the picture. 

@"golfervike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"golfervike" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Ralphie" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Take it for what it's worth. I don't think any of these guys know any more than the rest of us, but in Googling the latest chatter on Vikings' QB debate, there's definitely a buzz in the media that the Vikings may be leaning toward Teddy.... 

https://thevikingage.com/2018/02/12/rumor-vikings-to-offer-short-term-contract-bridgewater/
NFL Update@MySportsUpdateExecutives around the league expect the #Vikings to give QB Teddy Bridgewater a short term and incentive based “prove it” type deal this offseason. They have not come to a conclusion on what they’ll do with Case Keenum.

Back in November, Over The Cap’s Jason Fitzgerald said he could see the Vikings giving Bridgewater a short-term contract this offseason worth, “between $6 million and $7 million a year plus incentives.” He also mentioned Minnesota probably will not fight to toll the quarterback’s current deal if it ends up looking like something that requires the NFLPA to get involved.

It just makes the most sense.  Taking the emotion out of it.  He has the most longterm upside of the 3.  Give him a contract that pays him as a starter with a chance to build on it.  Players usually will bet on themselves.  Pay him to avoid the tolling and earn a starters salary, but allowing him to prove himself and earn the big payday.  If he does, then the Vikings will be happy to pay him a top salary.  If not, he made decent money and gave it a shot.

https://thevikingage.com/2018/01/23/who-will-be-the-vikings-quarterback-2018/

The above article puts the odds of the three being QB in 2018:
Sammy...20%
Case...60%
TB...80%
And the reasoning is pretty straightforward.  He'd be the least expensive to sign with the best upside.
My fear is we could see a repeat with Sammy's situation...the Vikes are in the midst of a great season and TB goes down with that bad wheel.  Who would be our backup and could we hope to see Case-clone 2.0?

That would be a fear with anyone. No matter who the QB is, he has to be backed up with someone qualified. Read the 3rd article I linked above. Rick calls the backup QB the 2nd most important position on the roster. And with so few appealing options out there in free agency, I keep coming back to the most ideal situation: Sam and Teddy. 

Despite preferences what makes it ideal is we have 2 firsts and a 4 th invested in these 2

Ah, that's not "ideal", that's "justifying spent draft picks". I actually hope the team management is not weighing that as a factor, because it can lead to clouded judgment and weaker decision-making. If a draft pick was a mistake - and I am NOT saying either was, just IF - a smart and confident GM admits it and moves on, rather than handicapping a team with a bad Ponder. I mean bad player.

you’re a little off in your own world of Speilly bashing i think. sure it is ideal.  we have 2 franchise QB’s in Teddy and Sam. Whats more ideal than that?  a system QB game manager that may get 20 million a year on the open market?

yikes, thank god you're not a GM....

Sam/Teddy are FAR from franchise QB's.....  and then in the same sentence you call Cousins a system game manager.

just yikes. i rarely call people flat out wrong, it's all opinions mostly...

but that take is just wrong. 

pretty sure he was referring to Case as the game manager.

oh, my mistake then. for sure. Case is a game manager- did a really good job until the playoffs too for that role.

Sam with a healthy knee would be a franchise QB, and if Teddy never got hurt, i think he would be at this point, at least closer to it. now they have a ton of red flags that scare me, personally. 

@"golfervike" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Ralphie" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Take it for what it's worth. I don't think any of these guys know any more than the rest of us, but in Googling the latest chatter on Vikings' QB debate, there's definitely a buzz in the media that the Vikings may be leaning toward Teddy.... 

https://thevikingage.com/2018/02/12/rumor-vikings-to-offer-short-term-contract-bridgewater/
NFL Update@MySportsUpdateExecutives around the league expect the #Vikings to give QB Teddy Bridgewater a short term and incentive based “prove it” type deal this offseason. They have not come to a conclusion on what they’ll do with Case Keenum.

Back in November, Over The Cap’s Jason Fitzgerald said he could see the Vikings giving Bridgewater a short-term contract this offseason worth, “between $6 million and $7 million a year plus incentives.” He also mentioned Minnesota probably will not fight to toll the quarterback’s current deal if it ends up looking like something that requires the NFLPA to get involved.

It just makes the most sense.  Taking the emotion out of it.  He has the most longterm upside of the 3.  Give him a contract that pays him as a starter with a chance to build on it.  Players usually will bet on themselves.  Pay him to avoid the tolling and earn a starters salary, but allowing him to prove himself and earn the big payday.  If he does, then the Vikings will be happy to pay him a top salary.  If not, he made decent money and gave it a shot.

https://thevikingage.com/2018/01/23/who-will-be-the-vikings-quarterback-2018/

The above article puts the odds of the three being QB in 2018:
Sammy...20%
Case...60%
TB...80%
And the reasoning is pretty straightforward.  He'd be the least expensive to sign with the best upside.
My fear is we could see a repeat with Sammy's situation...the Vikes are in the midst of a great season and TB goes down with that bad wheel.  Who would be our backup and could we hope to see Case-clone 2.0?

That would be a fear with anyone. No matter who the QB is, he has to be backed up with someone qualified. Read the 3rd article I linked above. Rick calls the backup QB the 2nd most important position on the roster. And with so few appealing options out there in free agency, I keep coming back to the most ideal situation: Sam and Teddy. 

Despite preferences what makes it ideal is we have 2 firsts and a 4 th invested in these 2

Ah, that's not "ideal", that's "justifying spent draft picks". I actually hope the team management is not weighing that as a factor, because it can lead to clouded judgment and weaker decision-making. If a draft pick was a mistake - and I am NOT saying either was, just IF - a smart and confident GM admits it and moves on, rather than handicapping a team with a bad Ponder. I mean bad player.

you’re a little off in your own world of Speilly bashing i think. sure it is ideal.  we have 2 franchise QB’s in Teddy and Sam. Whats more ideal than that?  a system QB game manager that may get 20 million a year on the open market?

yikes, thank god you're not a GM....

Sam/Teddy are FAR from franchise QB's.....  and then in the same sentence you call Cousins a system game manager.

just yikes. i rarely call people flat out wrong, it's all opinions mostly...

but that take is just wrong. 

lol

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

@"FSUVike" said

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.

And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

@"Norse" said:

@"FSUVike" said

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.

As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.

@"Zanary" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.

And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"FSUVike" said

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.

As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.

Context, as always. First, Norv running his Air Corryel system best suited for a guy like Ben or Rivers with a QB that best fits a WCO system.

Second, Norv's ultra-predictable run AP up the gut on first and second down playcalling.

Third, people quickly forget that Teddy played behind one of the worst O-Lines we had ever seen until the one Sam had to deal with. Does that all the sudden make the Line Teddy had not god awful or are we just victims of recency bias.

Fourth, no WRs. Diggs was a Rookie that was on the bench for a good chunk of the season. Thielen was a non factor. Wallace was a one trick pony. The best WR option was actually Wright.

And are you already forgetting the year where Foles tore up the League?

@"Norse" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"FSUVike" said

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

I have to disagree...What did Teddy do more of? I wouldn't be bragging about a 30th ranked passing attack.
Sam had way less...he went through 14 different linemen and he had no AP. He pretty much had no running back at all.

As far as past behavior is indicative of the future. Take Foles for instance He didn't last a season as the starting QB for the Rams and Jeff Fisher as coach.
keenum had his worst season as a Ram and his best as a Viking.

Context, as always. First, Norv running his Air Corryel system best suited for a guy like Ben or Rivers with a QB that best fits a WCO system.

Second, Norv's ultra-predictable run AP up the gut on first and second down playcalling.

Third, people quickly forget that Teddy played behind one of the worst O-Lines we had ever seen until the one Sam had to deal with. Does that all the sudden make the Line Teddy had not god awful or are we just victims of recency bias.

Fourth, no WRs. Diggs was a Rookie that was on the bench for a good chunk of the season. Thielen was a non factor. Wallace was a one trick pony. The best WR option was actually Wright.

And are you already forgetting the year where Foles tore up the League?

Teddy was on an 11-5 team with a RB who won the rushing title. "terrible line"

Sam and Keenum played for Jeff Fisher and the Rams had the worst years of their careers  
But there is no excuses for them..They were lousy and couldn't get it done.
But Teddy has a book full of excuses some stated above.

The bottom line is until Teddy puts up the numbers that Keenum did this year, he is not as good as Keenum. 
Are we willing to chance a season to see what Teddy has? Or is our time right now.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.

And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.

And yet he got his team with less weapons to the Playoffs where Sam couldn't.

@"Zanary" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"FSUVike" said: How is a healthy Sam a Franchise QB? When has he ever put a team on his back and carried them to an important win? 

I love the arm talent, but there's zero GUMP factor. Hell, Rivers has played many seasons with comparable talent to what Bradford has had around him most of his career and yet Rivers is the one who consistently gets his teams in the Playoff hunt, not Sam.

I would agree that in terms of "IT" factor, leadership, moxie, whatever you want to call it, Sam doesn't appear to have it quite to the level of Teddy.

But for someone who (correctly) insists on factoring in context, you seem to be ignoring a lot with this. Last year was the first time in his career that Bradford had any kind of supporting cast. And that was with a terrible offensive line. 

There's no doubt in my mind if Bradford had remained our starter, we'd be talking about him now as one of the elite QBs in the NFL. A franchise QB. 

Many Tier 2 QBs have had mediocre supporting casts and managed to stay in the Playoff hunt. Sam has not.

And I have doubts that had he stayed healthy he would have continued to play at the level he did against the Saints.

I recruit people for one of the most well known companies in the world. One of our mantras is that Past Behavior is indicative of Future Performance.

Using that line of legitimate thinking we're actually seen Teddy do more with less than we've seen Sam.

Yet, we've also seen Teddy have far higher turnover ratios and essentially nothing consistent in his long-pass game...so...if past is prologue, Teddy is, by your logic, very limited.

And yet he got his team with less weapons to the Playoffs where Sam couldn't.

Huh...that's funny, I'm pretty sure the TEAM did it...including 1485 yards from AP, who was always the first focus of the opposing defenses.  Kind of a HUGE omission there...dontcha think?

He also had Mike Wallace, but couldn't seem to use him effectively.  Funny thing, he's been a pretty good weapon with other QBs...but had the fewest of his career with Teddy.  Hell, he more than doubled his production the next season, with Baltimore.

14 TDs vs 9 INTs...whereas Sam did 6 more TDs and 4 less INTs, and didn't start 'til week 2.

I'm afraid I wouldn't trust your analytics too far.

Love the cherry picking of stats.

Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally. 

But that was about the team and Adrian.  But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.

Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask. 

Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win.  But he had an awful line with injuries galore. 

So there, we have it on the table.  Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion.  There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts".  Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.

@"greediron" said: Love the cherry picking of stats.

Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally. 

But that was about the team and Adrian.  But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.

Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask. 

Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win.  But he had an awful line with injuries galore. 

So there, we have it on the table.  Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion.  There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts".  Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said: Love the cherry picking of stats.

Teddy QBed his team to a NFCN title and the playoffs in his second year professionally. 

But that was about the team and Adrian.  But Adrian sucked and was a one trick pony and Norv sucked but Teddy held the offense back.

Case led his team to the #2 seed and a bye in the playoffs and was magical or just a system QB depending on who you ask. 

Sam changed teams/offenses right before the season and was a miracle worker and set records yet he didn't win.  But he had an awful line with injuries galore. 

So there, we have it on the table.  Pick your excuses, figure out what stats you want to cherry pick to concoct your opinion.  There is plenty of data here for everyone to pick some random player or stat that will bolster your "facts".  Get here early to use the best ones before they are beaten like a dead horse.

I think the horse has been dead for quite a while.

The horse is gonna get beaten into the ground until the QB situation gets addressed.  That will be a nice, big, shiny distraction from this discussion...but inevitably lead to more armchair coaching/managing until preseason at least.

Ah, fandom.