Who gives us best chance to win? Cousins or one of the current 3?

Can we also assume Teddy and Sam are 100% healthy?

1) Sam
2)Cousins
3)Case
4)Teddy

I'm not a fan of Cousins.  He's ok, but doesn't do it for me long term for big $$s.  I really don't see him being that much better than Case.  He doesn't really have that "big arm" either. 

I still haven't ruled out the possibility of Teddy.  He's a smart QB that can move better than all these guys.  I still hope if Teddy can be healthy, he can be Russell Wilson like.

I'd take Bradford first if they even think the knee is looking pretty good. There has to be some reasons that Washington is so against Cousins....it concerns me. Case or Teddy is a wash for me, I've soured on Teddy's upside some.

Cousins is probably the most reliable at this point...  you'll pay a lot more than you would for Teddy, Bradford, or Case...  but there are no knee issues to worry about (Sam and Teddy) and no ceiling to worry about (Case and Teddy). 
His numbers in his 3 seasons as a starter put Bradford, Teddy, and Keenum to shame.  He's the safest bet to achieve top 12 QB production, but he'll also be the most expensive of the bunch.  Basically the Vikings need to ask themselves whether they are comfortable paying a bunch of a money for a proven option at QB for the next 5 years or hope that one of their 3 in-house candidates can play at Cousins level in 2018 and beyond?

@"Wetlander" said: Cousins is probably the most reliable at this point...  you'll pay a lot more than you would for Teddy, Bradford, or Case...  but there are no knee issues to worry about (Sam and Teddy) and no ceiling to worry about (Case and Teddy).  His numbers in his 3 seasons as a starter put Bradford, Teddy, and Keenum to shame.  He's the safest bet to achieve top 12 QB production, but he'll also be the most expensive of the bunch.  Basically the Vikings need to ask themselves whether they are comfortable paying a bunch of a money for a proven option at QB for the next 5 years or hope that one of their 3 in-house candidates can play at Cousins level in 2018 and beyond?

why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

I will say this: although Cousins concerns me a bit, he's highly productive. And I think his skills would be maximized by playing indoors a minimum of 9 games a year like he would in Minnesota (Lions game on the road). He's 6'3", around 215 lbs and has an underrated arm. 29 years old, same as Keenum and 9 months younger than Bradford. 

I just don't think Minnesota is going to get involved with him.

Assuming that Smith and Brees are not in the conversation
and that we don’t know what Bridgewater or Bradford looked like in practice, I
think Cousins is the best short term pick, just because he’s the lowest risk to
not seeing the field while providing competent play, but he’s probably not
worth the cost.  We’d probably get 2
years of keeping the D together before his cost inhibited that.  As Wetlander said, he doesn’t have knee
issues and you know his floor/ceiling pretty well.

I think so much of it comes down to the stuff we don’t know,
but the coaches should know.  Did
Bradfords knee just need to be cleaned or is it a perennial problem?  Is Bridgewater really killing it in practice
such that a dramatic jump in performance is likely.

I think if you feel comfortable at all with either Bradford
or Bridgewater, you roll with them, if not try to get Cousins.  If the knee gods destroy our QB for the 3rd
year in a row, we’ll have to send a nuke into the sun.

@"JimmyinSD" said: why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

Because he's been at least a top 12 QB in just about every major statistical category since he took over as Washington's starter.  He had Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, and Jordan Reed as his top targets in 2015 and 2016.  Those two left in 2017 and Reed was injured most of this past season...  and he still put up very good numbers with Jamison Crowder (good slot WR), the oft-injured Josh Doctson, Ryan Grant (who?), and an old Vernon Davis. 2015 CMP: 69.8% (1st) PY: 4,166 (10th) YPA: 7.67 (8th) TDs: 29 (Tied 12th) QBR: 101.6 (5th) 2016 CMP: 67.0% (8th) PY: 4,917 (3rd) YPA: 8.11 (3rd) TDs: 25 (13th) QBR: 97.2 (7th) 2017 CMP: 64.3% (9th) PY: 4,093 (7th) YPA: 7.58 (9th) TDs: 27 (8th) QBR: 93.9 (12th) Further...  Cousins played in a West Coast scheme under Jay Gruden similar to what we ran here.  I would assume the Vikings would try to keep a similar scheme to what Shurmur ran since our offensive line is suited to that type of blocking scheme and our offensive skill players fit that system.  Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and Cook are a much better supporting cast than anything he's had in Washington. Most of these same players helped Bradford have a career year in 2016 behind a shitty offensive line and helped Case have a career year this season.  It's not that hard to project that Cousins would be able to replicate the same statistical success he had in Washington.  In fact, he could even have his best season to date.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: why can we assume that cousins will be a top 1/3 QB in what ever system that we use?  we have argued that this guy or that guy is a system player,  its tough for me to stomach giving an unproven player that much cash unless we were to know that he can perform in our system,  sure we could change our system to fit his strengths,  but then does that play into the strengths of our other offensive players.   IMO Cousins has would have just as many questions around him as the other 3.

Because he's been at least a top 12 QB in just about every major statistical category since he took over as Washington's starter.  He had Pierre Garcon, Desean Jackson, and Jordan Reed as his top targets in 2015 and 2016.  Those two left in 2017 and Reed was injured most of this past season...  and he still put up very good numbers with Jamison Crowder (good slot WR), the oft-injured Josh Doctson, Ryan Grant (who?), and an old Vernon Davis. 2015 CMP: 69.8% (1st) PY: 4,166 (10th) YPA: 7.67 (8th) TDs: 29 (Tied 12th) QBR: 101.6 (5th) 2016 CMP: 67.0% (8th) PY: 4,917 (3rd) YPA: 8.11 (3rd) TDs: 25 (13th) QBR: 97.2 (7th) 2017 CMP: 64.3% (9th) PY: 4,093 (7th) YPA: 7.58 (9th) TDs: 27 (8th) QBR: 93.9 (12th) Further...  Cousins played in a West Coast scheme under Jay Gruden similar to what we ran here.  I would assume the Vikings would try to keep a similar scheme to what Shurmur ran since our offensive line is suited to that type of blocking scheme and our offensive skill players fit that system.  Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and Cook are a much better supporting cast than anything he's had in Washington. Most of these same players helped Bradford have a career year in 2016 behind a shitty offensive line and helped Case have a career year this season.  It's not that hard to project that Cousins would be able to replicate the same statistical success he had in Washington.  In fact, he could even have his best season to date.

Just not a Kirk fan - can't really say why. I just don't think he's "The Guy". I see his stats over the past three years, and I SHOULD think we should go get him. But my head just can't wrap my head around having him. Probably illogical on my part. I do think he kind of flamed out the last 1/4 of the year - Skins averaged 17.3 points a game - including only 10 points against the Giants the last game of the season - He  was 20 for 37 / 158 total yards / 0 TD's / 3 Ints. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

sorry,  i am just not all that thrilled with him as a QB.  stats can be very misleading.

heres some that can be considered as well.

2015   9-7
2016   8-7-1
2017   7-9

big time stats are great,  but they dont tell a whole picture.  how much of those gaudy numbers are built on prevent defenses because they are playing from behind?   

I dont watch a ton of skins games,  but what I have watched of him has left me thinking that he is a good (not great) QB with some glaring deficiencies in his game and that snyder was dumb to get into a pissing match with him,  but even dumber to make him stay and grossly overpay for the performance he was getting.  good not great and certainly not worth 25+ million per year IMO.

If he would sign for a contact that built up to bigger money after he shows that he can play better,  maybe,  but I would be hesitant to pay what others might.

His win/loss record looks a lot like Bradford with Philly and the Rams... and similar to Stafford and Carr.  Keenum was 4-5 in St. Louis before coming here. 
I get it...  I would be hesitant to hand him a ridiculous contract, but if the Vikings can sign him to a contract similar to what Stafford and Carr just signed...  I wouldn't be upset at all if the Vikings went that route.

@"NorthernCalVike" said: Just not a Kirk fan - can't really say why. I just don't think he's "The Guy". I see his stats over the past three years, and I SHOULD think we should go get him. But my head just can't wrap my head around having him. Probably illogical on my part. I do think he kind of flamed out the last 1/4 of the year - Skins averaged 17.3 points a game - including only 10 points against the Giants the last game of the season - He  was 20 for 37 / 158 total yards / 0 TD's / 3 Ints. 

thats where I am at with him... I see the stats and agree that they paint a pretty picture,  but I trust my gut and my eyes before stats when it comes to players.   sometimes I am wrong,  but quite often than not I am not.  I will stick with my gut.

Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's. 

in an offense friendly system that was dying to get rid of him... something just doesn't seem right there

I wish it were that simple. Who gives the best chance to win? Win what? Go 13-3 or take us to an entirely different level and win the Super Bowl? When? Next season or long term? Are injuries a factor? Is money? Problem is, ALL of those have to be factors in the decision. 

I think Cousins would look fantastic in our offense and we'd be happy with the results, but his contract would cripple our chances for remaining competitive in the long term. Bradford has more arm talent than any of them. But did someone say bone on bone? How long before that knee starts aching again? I think Case would give us another competitive season. His intangibles are through the roof; I just don't think he has the arm talent to take this offense to the next level. I think Teddy is the option that is the most likely to become our long-term, franchise QB. But even if he's past his knee issue, there have to be questions about his durability moving forward. 

There is no clear answer. 

Cousins has done all he could the last 3 years and no one is mentioning the lack of a running game there.

Also, there defense has been terrible the last 3 years.  This past year the pass defense was much better but the run defense was ranked 29th.

Give Cousins a running game (the Vikings have that), a reliable tight end (the Vikings have that), two really good receivers (the Vikings have that), a decent offensive line (the Vikings are working on that), and a top defense (the Vikings most definitely have that) and you just might be surprised.

Paying him 25 to 27 mil per year is not going to hurt the team at all.

They paid 22 mil for all 4 QBs this year.

The money is not an issue.

The odds of Cousins continuing his level of play have to be higher than Case repeating or Teddy coming back and improving.

I just cannot see how Spielman looks at this roster and then does not look very very seriously at Cousins who he can get without using any draft picks.

@"mgobluevikes" said: Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's. 

so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational?  I have played and watched the game my whole life,  I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say,  imo that is rational.   I have no emotion involved with the decision,  basing it on emotion would be irrational.  I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with,  but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only  above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

sorry,  i am just not all that thrilled with him as a QB.  stats can be very misleading.

heres some that can be considered as well.

2015   9-7
2016   8-7-1
2017   7-9

big time stats are great,  but they dont tell a whole picture.  how much of those gaudy numbers are built on prevent defenses because they are playing from behind?   

I dont watch a ton of skins games,  but what I have watched of him has left me thinking that he is a good (not great) QB with some glaring deficiencies in his game and that snyder was dumb to get into a pissing match with him,  but even dumber to make him stay and grossly overpay for the performance he was getting.  good not great and certainly not worth 25+ million per year IMO.

If he would sign for a contact that built up to bigger money after he shows that he can play better,  maybe,  but I would be hesitant to pay what others might.

His win/loss record looks a lot like Bradford with Philly and the Rams... and similar to Stafford and Carr.  Keenum was 4-5 in St. Louis before coming here. 
I get it...  I would be hesitant to hand him a ridiculous contract, but if the Vikings can sign him to a contract similar to what Stafford and Carr just signed...  I wouldn't be upset at all if the Vikings went that route.

@"Neptizzle" said: in an offense friendly system that was dying to get rid of him... something just doesn't seem right there

Offensive friendly system? you mean the one where he had ZERO playmakers other than a decent slot wideout? ok.... 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's. 

so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational?  I have played and watched the game my whole life,  I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say,  imo that is rational.   I have no emotion involved with the decision,  basing it on emotion would be irrational.  I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with,  but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only  above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.

@"golfervike" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

sorry,  i am just not all that thrilled with him as a QB.  stats can be very misleading.

heres some that can be considered as well.

2015   9-7
2016   8-7-1
2017   7-9

big time stats are great,  but they dont tell a whole picture.  how much of those gaudy numbers are built on prevent defenses because they are playing from behind?   

I dont watch a ton of skins games,  but what I have watched of him has left me thinking that he is a good (not great) QB with some glaring deficiencies in his game and that snyder was dumb to get into a pissing match with him,  but even dumber to make him stay and grossly overpay for the performance he was getting.  good not great and certainly not worth 25+ million per year IMO.

If he would sign for a contact that built up to bigger money after he shows that he can play better,  maybe,  but I would be hesitant to pay what others might.

His win/loss record looks a lot like Bradford with Philly and the Rams... and similar to Stafford and Carr.  Keenum was 4-5 in St. Louis before coming here. 
I get it...  I would be hesitant to hand him a ridiculous contract, but if the Vikings can sign him to a contract similar to what Stafford and Carr just signed...  I wouldn't be upset at all if the Vikings went that route.

this one is a no brainer here... W-L has nothing to do with the QB.

He had very little to work with the last couple years. he would be a big improvment over case/teddy. and you can't trust Sam to stay healthy at all.

and people complaining about the money just dont see the market like it really is i guess. they just see the $$$'s. 

If Carr got 25 mill- and Stafford got 26 mill. that's just the price you gotta pay unless you want a below average QB...