Who gives us best chance to win? Cousins or one of the current 3?

I think Bradford or Cousins would allow the team to reach a higher plane than Teddy or Case....and more consistently. But the Vikings need to be bold in whatever it is they decide: go for it and don't look back. 

@"Canthony" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"kmillard" said: Qb and a dominant offensive line will take this team a long way.

IT would rival 98 in record lol! 

Better OL and Dalvin Cook going into Philly and I would have liked our chances...

...
Bring in a guy like Cousins... I think you have a recipe for greatness

I think that the only reason the "team" considers Teddy a "franchise" QB is because Zim wants a game-manager who can keep their emotions under control and not make mistakes.  Maybe that's THEIR definition of a "franchise" QB... but not mine.  I don't know if Cousins is- or isn't- the answer, but I think he gives the offense more potency than any of the other QBs on our roster last year.  No, we may not be able to sign a stud DL... but if our damn offense could out-score someone for a change, we wouldn't need to have All-Stars at every defensive position.

@"pumpf" said: I think that the only reason the "team" considers Teddy a "franchise" QB is because Zim wants a game-manager who can keep their emotions under control and not make mistakes.  Maybe that's THEIR definition of a "franchise" QB... but not mine.  I don't know if Cousins is- or isn't- the answer, but I think he gives the offense more potency than any of the other QBs on our roster last year.  No, we may not be able to sign a stud DL... but if our damn offense could out-score someone for a change, we wouldn't need to have All-Stars at every defensive position.

@"pumpf" said: I think that the only reason the "team" considers Teddy a "franchise" QB is because Zim wants a game-manager who can keep their emotions under control and not make mistakes.  Maybe that's THEIR definition of a "franchise" QB... but not mine.  I don't know if Cousins is- or isn't- the answer, but I think he gives the offense more potency than any of the other QBs on our roster last year.  No, we may not be able to sign a stud DL... but if our damn offense could out-score someone for a change, we wouldn't need to have All-Stars at every defensive position.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

@"pumpf" said: I think that the only reason the "team" considers Teddy a "franchise" QB is because Zim wants a game-manager who can keep their emotions under control and not make mistakes.  Maybe that's THEIR definition of a "franchise" QB... but not mine.  I don't know if Cousins is- or isn't- the answer, but I think he gives the offense more potency than any of the other QBs on our roster last year.  No, we may not be able to sign a stud DL... but if our damn offense could out-score someone for a change, we wouldn't need to have All-Stars at every defensive position.

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Canthony" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"kmillard" said: Qb and a dominant offensive line will take this team a long way.

IT would rival 98 in record lol! 

Better OL and Dalvin Cook going into Philly and I would have liked our chances...

...
Bring in a guy like Cousins... I think you have a recipe for greatness

Maybe. But at what cost? 25M? 30M? That ends all discussion of adding a 3T like Richardson, who I think would take our defense from very good to dominant. Pay no attention to his stats in Seattle. He drew constant double teams and holding penalties, and the Seahawks are pretty determined to get him back. Personally, I think he might be the most talented 3T in the NFL after Donald. 

And where does Bradford stack up to Cousins? It's close, but I think Bradford is better. And he'll cost a fraction as much because of the knee. But yes, the knee is obviously a concern, so you back him up with a tolled Teddy and Sloter. Bradford and Teddy together would cost half as much as Cousins...and allow this team to keep the QB they saw as its franchise QB, add an elite defender, and keep the defense together until they have to pay a QB. At that point we'll have a much better idea of where Sam, Teddy and Kyle are. 

I might change my mind, but that's where I'm at right now...

Hmmm. First, Sam has always been a guy who plays it safe and will take the checkdown rather than trying to throw someone open or allow them to try to make a contested catch.

That's really been his M.O. going all the way back to OU. I wasn't mad at Case for trying to get the ball to Adam and Diggs. I was mad that he didn't have the arm strength to hit them in stride when they were open and his pop flies turned into contested catches. He was also late on his reads or was just going to out right throw it to someone who was covered when an outlet was available.

Cousins can hit our guys as they uncover anywhere on the field. So can Sam, but he needs a really clean pocket or he'll bail to the checkdown. Kirk doesn't need that. He's used to playing behind backups and working the pocket enough to get room to go for chunk plays. 

Kirk isn't a gunslinger though. If it isn't open he's going to take the checkdown if the game situation allows it. That wasn't always the case with him but he's been growing ever since he became a permanent starter.

If Bradford was guaranteed healthy fine. I'd still argue for Cousins as I think he's naturally more aggressive and more likely to lead your team on a comeback late in a game.

As for the Defense, there's zero chance Richardson alone stops NO, Philly or NE from dropping 30+ in the Playoffs.

First half both Jacksonville and Philly pressured Brady. But they couldn't keep it up for 60 minutes and the points started to pile up.

The good Offenses have too many weapons and very creative play calling. Unless you pressure their QB on every snap, which isn't possible in the NFL, you either need to score the keep up or you need 5 guys who can flat out cover, and cover for long periods of time. And even then the opponent will just start running the ball.

Rub routes. WR bunches. Singling up their leaper like Gronk or Jeffery. RBs lining up on the outside and running routes like WRs. Teams going for it on 4th down like crazy I the Playoffs.,

All this crazy stuff and yet the teams in Minnesota's way never abandon the run,which keeps their play action viable.

I'm o.k.with Sam and Teddy if the team lands Richardson, signs two CBs in FA and finds an upgrade from Sendejo that can cover TEs while also using a high pick on a DE to rotate with Griffin and Hunter.

One or two pieces alone ain't gonna be enough to make this a Defense that can shut down anyone. If the cost of fixing all of it is not getting Cousins then fine. I'm just not sure the FO would devote enough resources to that side of the ball to take it over the top.

But Cousins and an RT in the first round sure would elevate the Offense in a hurry! 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

@"FSUVike" said:

...

Separately, I think you have some recency bias going
on.  In the last couple years, it sure
seems like offenses are dominating the playoffs and SB, but it wasn’t that long
ago that dominant defenses were what won championships.  It’s not like defenses are negligible and
scores are going to be 41-33 very often. 
The average score for both the last 10 and last 15 years is about 29.5 –
21.  So we definitely need to upgrade our
offense, but the winning teams are still holding SB caliber offenses to 21
points.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

This is probably the best way of simplifying the differences. There are exceptions, but very few QB's come into the league and are dominant until year 3 in their career. What you are looking for in years 1-2 is steady improvement and specific traits. Bridgewater did a lot of good things. His ability to maneuver the pocket was really the biggest chip he brought to the table. Without dropping his eyes he did a very good job of feeling pressure and finding enough space to get passes off. Within 15-20 yards he was lethally accurate and understood ball placement. Not only did receivers have a chance to run after the catch but they were often times protected from unnecessary hits. In no ways was Bridgewater a finished product in 2015/16. But he showed the traits that he had a good chance of significantly improving his production. Ponder didn't show those same qualities. 

Ultimately you need to know what you're letting walk out the door if you're the Vikings. At this point I am not sold they are 100% confident in their evaluation of where he's at. Part of that has to deal with the fact that he hasn't gotten into a meaningful game situation. Practice will give them a good idea, but you won't know what Teddy is until he is taking snaps with a live pass rush. Risky, yes. But it likely has the highest upside given the cost. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

Teddy always looked like a colt pushing against the reigns, wanting to do more and go farther...faster,   ... Christian always looked like a colt that was looking around for his mother for security.  ( and I liked Christian)  There was something about Teddy that said that he had a little more than what you see from most young players,  his confidence and quiet demeanor for me were reassuring that we had a made a good pick.  

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

Teddy always looked like a colt pushing against the reigns, wanting to do more and go farther...faster,   ... Christian always looked like a colt that was looking around for his mother for security.  ( and I liked Christian)  There was something about Teddy that said that he had a little more than what you see from most young players,  his confidence and quiet demeanor for me were reassuring that we had a made a good pick.  

I think that's a pretty fair analogy. Bad protection can ruin a QB. It shatters their confidence and makes them see ghosts. That can have a big impact on accuracy, even when there's adequate protection. There were times in his 2nd season when I thought we might be better served in the long term getting Bridgewater out of harms way, but danged if he didn't seem to have the mental toughness to endure it. Despite the constant jailbreaks, he was composed for the most part, he had good escapability and he wasn't afraid to the throw the ball away. And he was improving within those constraints. His performance under pressure, in come-from-behind games, suggested to me that if you could just take those constraints away and give him "league average" OL play, you would see him really take off. I never saw that in Ponder. Ponder was a wreck. My lasting impression of him is just chaos. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

This is probably the best way of simplifying the differences. There are exceptions, but very few QB's come into the league and are dominant until year 3 in their career. What you are looking for in years 1-2 is steady improvement and specific traits. Bridgewater did a lot of good things. His ability to maneuver the pocket was really the biggest chip he brought to the table. Without dropping his eyes he did a very good job of feeling pressure and finding enough space to get passes off. Within 15-20 yards he was lethally accurate and understood ball placement. Not only did receivers have a chance to run after the catch but they were often times protected from unnecessary hits. In no ways was Bridgewater a finished product in 2015/16. But he showed the traits that he had a good chance of significantly improving his production. Ponder didn't show those same qualities. 

Ultimately you need to know what you're letting walk out the door if you're the Vikings. At this point I am not sold they are 100% confident in their evaluation of where he's at. Part of that has to deal with the fact that he hasn't gotten into a meaningful game situation. Practice will give them a good idea, but you won't know what Teddy is until he is taking snaps with a live pass rush. Risky, yes. But it likely has the highest upside given the cost. 

any word on what Teddys agent is realistically looking for?  do they really think he will get an offer from somebody without any legit competition for the #1 spot or are they expecting to be in a camp battle no matter where they end up?

(the same questions with Sam and Case as well I guess)

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

This is probably the best way of simplifying the differences. There are exceptions, but very few QB's come into the league and are dominant until year 3 in their career. What you are looking for in years 1-2 is steady improvement and specific traits. Bridgewater did a lot of good things. His ability to maneuver the pocket was really the biggest chip he brought to the table. Without dropping his eyes he did a very good job of feeling pressure and finding enough space to get passes off. Within 15-20 yards he was lethally accurate and understood ball placement. Not only did receivers have a chance to run after the catch but they were often times protected from unnecessary hits. In no ways was Bridgewater a finished product in 2015/16. But he showed the traits that he had a good chance of significantly improving his production. Ponder didn't show those same qualities. 

Ultimately you need to know what you're letting walk out the door if you're the Vikings. At this point I am not sold they are 100% confident in their evaluation of where he's at. Part of that has to deal with the fact that he hasn't gotten into a meaningful game situation. Practice will give them a good idea, but you won't know what Teddy is until he is taking snaps with a live pass rush. Risky, yes. But it likely has the highest upside given the cost. 

any word on what Teddys agent is realistically looking for?  do they really think he will get an offer from somebody without any legit competition for the #1 spot or are they expecting to be in a camp battle no matter where they end up?

(the same questions with Sam and Case as well I guess)

No idea what his agent would be looking for, the market will dictate it. But whether his contract tolls is the conversation right now. The Vikings have expressed to Bridgewater's camp they would like him back though. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

This is probably the best way of simplifying the differences. There are exceptions, but very few QB's come into the league and are dominant until year 3 in their career. What you are looking for in years 1-2 is steady improvement and specific traits. Bridgewater did a lot of good things. His ability to maneuver the pocket was really the biggest chip he brought to the table. Without dropping his eyes he did a very good job of feeling pressure and finding enough space to get passes off. Within 15-20 yards he was lethally accurate and understood ball placement. Not only did receivers have a chance to run after the catch but they were often times protected from unnecessary hits. In no ways was Bridgewater a finished product in 2015/16. But he showed the traits that he had a good chance of significantly improving his production. Ponder didn't show those same qualities. 

Ultimately you need to know what you're letting walk out the door if you're the Vikings. At this point I am not sold they are 100% confident in their evaluation of where he's at. Part of that has to deal with the fact that he hasn't gotten into a meaningful game situation. Practice will give them a good idea, but you won't know what Teddy is until he is taking snaps with a live pass rush. Risky, yes. But it likely has the highest upside given the cost. 

any word on what Teddys agent is realistically looking for?  do they really think he will get an offer from somebody without any legit competition for the #1 spot or are they expecting to be in a camp battle no matter where they end up?

(the same questions with Sam and Case as well I guess)

No idea what his agent would be looking for, the market will dictate it. But whether his contract tolls is the conversation right now. The Vikings have expressed to Bridgewater's camp they would like him back though. 

i didnt know if he was in your circle of trust or not.  I am glad to hear the team wants Teddy back, but I would expect that they have expressed the same sentiment to Sam and Case as well even though they know that they wont be signing all 3.  one of those PC things they just have to say.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Disagree. I think too many try to retrofit Teddy into this game-manager straitjacket as if that's all he'll ever be. That's what he was his first two seasons because, like a lot of young QBs around that time, that's what he was asked to do on a run-first team with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running backs.

It's frustrating, too, because everyone seems to have forgotten that the idea was that the straitjacket was going to come off in his 3rd season. If you recall the buzz from that summer, Mike Zimmer talked about it. Norv talked about it. Even Adrian mentioned that he was going to have to adapt and be more of a pass catcher because the offense was changing. 

It would be like Matt Ryan missing the last couple of seasons and folks claiming that all he'll ever be is a game manager who averaged about 3,000 yards a season with 19 TDs and 13 INTs, because that's what he averaged his first two seasons.

It's kinda ridiculous. 

Do you mean if people ignored Ryan having 6 years averaging 28 TDs and 4,000 yards, and only looking at his first 2 years, that would be ridiculous? Well, yeah, it would.
But if the ONLY experience Ryan had in the NFL was his first two years - yes, some people would justifiably suggest he might never produce any more. Why would we assume otherwise? Not every rookie who is "decent" his first 2 seasons becomes a much better player, even if uninjured. Christian Ponder's stats were similar to Bridgewater's for his first two seasons, but he didn't turn into Matt Ryan.
Some people seem to see 6 great seasons by Bridgewater that haven't happened yet.

If you couldn't see the difference in composure and accuracy between the two in their first two seasons, then there's probably nothing I can say that will change your mind. Ponder was a 2nd to 3rd round QB taken in the first due to a run on QBs. Bridgewater was the consensus #1 overall pick until a bunch of idiots put too much stock into a bad pro day. His rookie year had most people rethinking their approach to pro days. You could SEE the cobwebs and chaos in Ponder's head from the beginning. 

This is probably the best way of simplifying the differences. There are exceptions, but very few QB's come into the league and are dominant until year 3 in their career. What you are looking for in years 1-2 is steady improvement and specific traits. Bridgewater did a lot of good things. His ability to maneuver the pocket was really the biggest chip he brought to the table. Without dropping his eyes he did a very good job of feeling pressure and finding enough space to get passes off. Within 15-20 yards he was lethally accurate and understood ball placement. Not only did receivers have a chance to run after the catch but they were often times protected from unnecessary hits. In no ways was Bridgewater a finished product in 2015/16. But he showed the traits that he had a good chance of significantly improving his production. Ponder didn't show those same qualities. 

Ultimately you need to know what you're letting walk out the door if you're the Vikings. At this point I am not sold they are 100% confident in their evaluation of where he's at. Part of that has to deal with the fact that he hasn't gotten into a meaningful game situation. Practice will give them a good idea, but you won't know what Teddy is until he is taking snaps with a live pass rush. Risky, yes. But it likely has the highest upside given the cost. 

any word on what Teddys agent is realistically looking for?  do they really think he will get an offer from somebody without any legit competition for the #1 spot or are they expecting to be in a camp battle no matter where they end up?

(the same questions with Sam and Case as well I guess)

No idea what his agent would be looking for, the market will dictate it. But whether his contract tolls is the conversation right now. The Vikings have expressed to Bridgewater's camp they would like him back though. 

i didnt know if he was in your circle of trust or not.  I am glad to hear the team wants Teddy back, but I would expect that they have expressed the same sentiment to Sam and Case as well even though they know that they wont be signing all 3.  one of those PC things they just have to say.

They haven't told anything to Sam or Case to this point.