Who gives us best chance to win? Cousins or one of the current 3?

Sigh. The concept of context once again comes up.

Am I the only one with the Redzone? The Skins played from behind a lot. So they were forced to become one dimensional. That meant Kirk had to throw the ball, a ton.

And he had to throw it a ton to players like Pryor (first season with the team), Doctson (always hurt and not exactly making Washington look like geniuses for taking and forcing Minnesota to take Treadwell), Grant (who?), Crowder, whom I like, and Old Man Davis because Reed was always hurt.

Remember how we all thought Washington would be without 3 or even 4 Starters on the O-Line when Minnesota played them? But then the Starters actually got healthy during the week and played. That was actually a rarity for them.

Folks, Cook fumbled a lot at FSU because he was trying to hard to make plays. Why? He was literally the only threat my 'Noles had. Same thing for Cousins. Too many picks for all the reasons I just described.

Amd yet, with a surfeit of talent he easily out produced Keenum, who had a surplus of talent.

And despite being about the same age Kirk has put what, 3 or 4 good seasons together to Case's one. Sure, you can say Keenum never had a roster like this to play with. You know what? Neither has Cousins. But he's still performed.

Now translate that to having better WRs, RB, O-Line and Defense. 

Another thing to consider. The Defense won't dominate for the 16 or so games Minnesota will need to win to lock up home field advantage and make it to the Super Bowl. We've already seen what happens when Case tries to carry the load by himself. Time for a QB that can actually bail out the Defense for a change.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"Ralphie" said: Somebody again explain why QB B is worth more money than QB A?

	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	TD	LNG	INT	FUM	QBR	RAT
"A" 2017 Regular Season	325	481	3,547	67.6	7.37	22	65	7	1	71.3	98.3

 

"B" 2017 Regular Season

347

540

4,093

64.3

7.58

27

74

13

13

50.5

93.9

Because QB A has a stat line of 3,023 yards at a 56.7 CMP% with 15 TD and 9 INT's over 16 games prior to this season. That scream regression. QB B has had a similar stat line the last three seasons. You'd arguably be paying additional money to hedge your risk against regression. 

FSU you eloquently stated what i've been trying to say. very well thought out post.  we hid our QB this year where the Redskins had to rely on Cousins for EVERYTHING.

Is he A-rod where he can drag his entire team to success? no. but we dont need that. we need a QB who is more than someone we hide, so we can rely on a running game and defense. 

@"golfervike" said:

@"Ralphie" said: I'm not saying Case is any better than Cousins.  Yes, he has a stronger arm and is a better deep ball passer.  But he hasn't been on the Browns and has had some very good WR's.  He's been in 1 1/2  playoff games, so it's not like he's this proven post-season asset.

If we could land him for a reasonable contract, fine.  But to back the Brinks truck up to his house is something that leaves me scratching my head.  As someone else posted, why is Wash. so willing to let him go for the likes of Alex Smith?

Who were his very good WR's?

But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.

But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.

I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.

You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.

So let's hear some names! 

@"FSUVike" said: Sigh. The concept of context once again comes up.

Am I the only one with the Redzone? The Skins played from behind a lot. So they were forced to become one dimensional. That meant Kirk had to throw the ball, a ton.

And he had to throw it a ton to players like Pryor (first season with the team), Doctson (always hurt and not exactly making Washington look like geniuses for taking and forcing Minnesota to take Treadwell), Grant (who?), Crowder, whom I like, and Old Man Davis because Reed was always hurt.

Remember how we all thought Washington would be without 3 or even 4 Starters on the O-Line when Minnesota played them? But then the Starters actually got healthy during the week and played. That was actually a rarity for them.

Folks, Cook fumbled a lot at FSU because he was trying to hard to make plays. Why? He was literally the only threat my 'Noles had. Same thing for Cousins. Too many picks for all the reasons I just described.

Amd yet, with a surfeit of talent he easily out produced Keenum, who had a surplus of talent.

And despite being about the same age Kirk has put what, 3 or 4 good seasons together to Case's one. Sure, you can say Keenum never had a roster like this to play with. You know what? Neither has Cousins. But he's still performed.

Now translate that to having better WRs, RB, O-Line and Defense. 

Another thing to consider. The Defense won't dominate for the 16 or so games Minnesota will need to win to lock up home field advantage and make it to the Super Bowl. We've already seen what happens when Case tries to carry the load by himself. Time for a QB that can actually bail out the Defense for a change.

Ultimately it comes down to two factors: 

1.) How much does a contract for Cousins end up being (the market will dictate this)
2.) Would he even be willing to come here (from what I've heard the answer is Yes) 

Everyone gets so caught up with the salary cap and jump to the conclusion that we can't resign our defensive starters. That isn't necessarily true (I'll write something up in the next few days). 

The Vikings account for the cap years in advance and if you think they didn't have a plan to pay up for Bradford if he would have had another strong season, you're simply wrong. That would have been in the range of $25M annually. If the Vikings deem Cousins provides a stable QB situation for the next 4+ years they'll make the contract work. 

But if you were to make a bet I wouldn't say the Vikings are the favorites. I'd still put my money on either Keenum or Bridgewater returning in 2018. 
 

@"FSUVike" said: But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.

But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.

I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.

You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.

So let's hear some names! 

The biggest decision the Vikings have to make is at QB.  Once that's done, I think we'll be relatively quiet...  re-sign a couple of our own FAs...  maybe a veteran CB if Newman decides to retire.  I would expect the biggest chunk of our off-season spending will go to whoever we sign at QB and extending Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and potentially Barr.

@"FSUVike" said: But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.

But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.

I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.

You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.

So let's hear some names! 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FSUVike" said: But still crappy compared to Thielen/Diggs/Rudolph. With a poor running game and perpetually dinged Line.

But Ralphie hit on something Jimmy also mentioned. The money spent on Cousins could be used to fix holes.

I get that idea in a vacuum but would like to hear who some of these players are as I've only looked at 3T so far and am not seeing a smart upgrade there.

You guys all get tired of me talking about opportunity vs.cost. But if the opportunity is there to upgrade multiple spots in FA that would be lost by the cost of signing Kirk I can certainly support that.

So let's hear some names! 

Really pointless to try until we get a better idea of what the pool will look like.  Still weeks away from looking for the who's among a lot of guys that won't see free agency.

See, I disagree Jimmy. If the Wish List is 3T, RT, TE,.FS,.etc. you can look at the UFAs right now.

For example, there are only 2 3Ts that have proven track record of rushing the QB are Richardson and Poe. Frankly, both have issues and I don't think signing Kirk equals missing out on fixing that hole.

Rick's not spending more money on FA Tackles. Guards maybe.

I'd like a pass catching TE to.pair with Rudy and a true Free Safety so Smith can be even more dynamic around the LOS, but that opportunity doesn't outweigh the chance to get a Franchise QB, IMO.

I need to see realistic, bona fide upgrades at at least two if not three positions to be swayed that signing them is more impactful than signing Kirk.

@"FSUVike" said: See, I disagree Jimmy. If the Wish List is 3T, RT, TE,.FS,.etc. you can look at the UFAs right now.

For example, there are only 2 3Ts that have proven track record of rushing the QB are Richardson and Poe. Frankly, both have issues and I don't think signing Kirk equals missing out on fixing that hole.

Rick's not spending more money on FA Tackles. Guards maybe.

I'd like a pass catching TE to.pair with Rudy and a true Free Safety so Smith can be even more dynamic around the LOS, but that opportunity doesn't outweigh the chance to get a Franchise QB, IMO.

I need to see realistic, bona fide upgrades at at least two if not three positions to be swayed that signing them is more impactful than signing Kirk.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's. 

so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational?  I have played and watched the game my whole life,  I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say,  imo that is rational.   I have no emotion involved with the decision,  basing it on emotion would be irrational.  I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with,  but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only  above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.

@"FSUVike" said: See, I disagree Jimmy. If the Wish List is 3T, RT, TE,.FS,.etc. you can look at the UFAs right now.

For example, there are only 2 3Ts that have proven track record of rushing the QB are Richardson and Poe. Frankly, both have issues and I don't think signing Kirk equals missing out on fixing that hole.

Rick's not spending more money on FA Tackles. Guards maybe.

I'd like a pass catching TE to.pair with Rudy and a true Free Safety so Smith can be even more dynamic around the LOS, but that opportunity doesn't outweigh the chance to get a Franchise QB, IMO.

I need to see realistic, bona fide upgrades at at least two if not three positions to be swayed that signing them is more impactful than signing Kirk.

@"mgobluevikes" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mgobluevikes" said: Sounds like most who aren't in favor of Cousins aren't looking at it rationally, but looking at it strictly from afar with just a gut feeling. Kinda weird. I think Cousins said yesterday in an interview that he wants to be paid, but at this point in his career, the most important thing is winning. I don't think his demands will be ridiculous in the landscape of NFL franchise QB's. 

so basing a decision strictly on limited stats is rational?  I have played and watched the game my whole life,  I will trust what I see more than what some limited numbers say,  imo that is rational.   I have no emotion involved with the decision,  basing it on emotion would be irrational.  I have said repeatedly that I am find with who ever Zim and Co. ultimately go with,  but top level money (25+what weve heard mentioned) for a guy that is only  above average in terms of what I (and others) have seen from him on the field... dumb.

Whose limited stats? There are more measurable stats over a prolonged period of time with Cousins than that of anyone currently on our roster, unless you want to go back to Sam's time in St. Louis. There is no denying the talent level that Cousins had to work with vs. our receivers, and yet put up very respectable numbers. 

I don't know what your trained eyes are telling you, but if not the numbers, and acknowledging the fact that he had a subpar set of skill players, then you can only be looking at it emotionally. You just don't like him. That's fine, but own it.  

@"Canthony" said:

@"FSUVike" said: See, I disagree Jimmy. If the Wish List is 3T, RT, TE,.FS,.etc. you can look at the UFAs right now.

For example, there are only 2 3Ts that have proven track record of rushing the QB are Richardson and Poe. Frankly, both have issues and I don't think signing Kirk equals missing out on fixing that hole.

Rick's not spending more money on FA Tackles. Guards maybe.

I'd like a pass catching TE to.pair with Rudy and a true Free Safety so Smith can be even more dynamic around the LOS, but that opportunity doesn't outweigh the chance to get a Franchise QB, IMO.

I need to see realistic, bona fide upgrades at at least two if not three positions to be swayed that signing them is more impactful than signing Kirk.

I like Poe a lot. Richardson would also be a force next to Joseph.

A healthy Sam Bradford has the most talent and upside of the 4.   But, is he healthy or will he ever be?   

@"comet52" said: A healthy Sam Bradford has the most talent and upside of the 4.   But, is he healthy or will he ever be?   

But Bone on Bone...Probably not ever going to be healthy....Not sure you could even count on him as a #2. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said: A healthy Sam Bradford has the most talent and upside of the 4.   But, is he healthy or will he ever be?   

  I agree Bradford is the best of the 3.

But Bone on Bone...Probably not ever going to be healthy....Not sure you could even count on him as a #2. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"comet52" said: A healthy Sam Bradford has the most talent and upside of the 4.   But, is he healthy or will he ever be?   

  I agree Bradford is the best of the 3.

But Bone on Bone...Probably not ever going to be healthy....Not sure you could even count on him as a #2.