Case being made...

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"comet52" said: The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing.   Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.

how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice?  isnt that just putting the best player on the field?  If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him?  I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.

Practice?  Where you don't get hit or face an actual opponent?   

It's the Vikings, I get that the franchise karma has always been to screw it up in some new, creative way.   And this will be no different.   There's no precedent that I can think of where an NFL team with a good record putting up good numbers offensively just decided one day to yank the qb in favor of a guy who hadn't seen the field in two years, whose leg/knee remained a question mark and who was statistically no better or arguably inferior to the guy who was playing the position and leading them to that good record.   There is no place outside of Viking fandom where TB holds some mythical legendary status, and the average NFL observer would tell the deluded Viking TB fans they are nuts on this matter.    I realize this doesn't make any difference to said fans.

We have an enormous contingent of fans offering a plethora of subjective rationales about TB which apparently mean we should stick to Viking karma and screw this up.    You may get your wish, fellows!

yep practice... remember Case isnt getting hit or facing a real opponent in practice either... if they see a much better player in Teddy in that environment,  knowing how much poise Teddy has shown in the past... they have a pretty good idea of what they will be getting when the lights come on... likely much better than any fans wouldnt you think?

I couldnt make this decision myself,  thats why I flip on this subject about every 5 minutes,  but I trust that if/when its made it will be the best thing for the team or Zim wouldnt be doing it.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"FSUVike" said: His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.

And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.

Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.

So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater?  Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.

I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.

It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.  

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.

It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.  

I see your point...but, if I'm going to start Teddy it won't be vs the Rams with a Thanksgiving Day game on the schedule...first time out I'd want to give him a full week to recover with that knee...start him vs Detroit, then he's got a few extra days to recover...

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"FSUVike" said: His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.

And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.

Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.

So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater?  Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.

I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.

i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week.  he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets.  he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production.  he is  a great back up QB,  but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1. 

as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.

the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well?  are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would,  and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond,  lets push all in this year,  I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"FSUVike" said: His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.

And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.

Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.

So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater?  Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.

I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.

i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week.  he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets.  he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production.  he is  a great back up QB,  but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1. 

as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.

the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well?  are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would,  and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond,  lets push all in this year,  I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.

11 TD's/5 INT's, 93% passer rating, 6-2 as a starter. Keenum is playing steady winning football at the QB position. If not for the two INT's late yesterday I don't know that we are having this conversation.

As far as next year and beyond, the team has to go with what is known. I'm hoping we do see Teddy at some point to see what is there moving forward...but he's a huge unknown. We have to see how the season plays out, but right now I would be more inclined to re-sign Keenum to start, continue to develop Sloter as the backup, and draft a QB in the first couple rounds of the draft. It's a good draft at the QB position and the Vikings could benefit.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

i would have to argue that Keenum hasnt improved each week.  he is still floating to many passes and starring down his targets.  he is wildly up and down in terms of success and production.  he is  a great back up QB,  but I dont see him being steady enough to be a legit playoff QB1. 

as far as the supporting cast... neither has Teddy.

the question for me is this... are we playing for this year alone or for the future as well?  are the Vikings going to resign Case as a starter for next year and beyond? I dont think they would,  and I am betting he sees a few teams looking for a bridge starter so he will likely be gone which takes us back to needing to find out about Teddy... of course if you a saying screw next year and beyond,  lets push all in this year,  I can see the arguement to stay with Case until the wheels really come flying off.

11 TD's/5 INT's, 93% passer rating, 6-2 as a starter. Keenum is playing steady winning football at the QB position. If not for the two INT's late yesterday I don't know that we are having this conversation.

As far as next year and beyond, the team has to go with what is known. I'm hoping we do see Teddy at some point to see what is there moving forward...but he's a huge unknown. We have to see how the season plays out, but right now I would be more inclined to re-sign Keenum to start, continue to develop Sloter as the backup, and draft a QB in the first couple rounds of the draft. It's a good draft at the QB position and the Vikings could benefit.

Let's not pretend we weren't all cussing when Keenum threw those horrible INTs in the 2nd half and should have thrown another one. Minnesota almost pissed away that lead. But roads wins are tough to come by and the Vikings got a big one. 

Only QB's I see who "rarely make mistakes" are Rogers and Brady, maybe Wilson is in that conversation...PRetty rough crowd regarding Case and there are definitely bias lenses. But everyone has their favorite player, nothing wrong with that. 

Putting Teddy in with 2 games in 10 days coming-up and arguably the 2 most important games in 2 seasons, doesnt sound right..

@"purplefaithful" said: Only QB's I see who "rarely make mistakes" are Rogers and Brady, maybe Wilson is in that conversation...PRetty rough crowd regarding Case and there are definitely bias lenses. But everyone has their favorite player, nothing wrong with that. 

Putting Teddy in with 2 games in 10 days coming-up and arguably the 2 most important games in 2 seasons, doesnt sound right..

I don't think Bridgewater can be returned back to the starting job until Keenum messes up....it would put undo pressure on him. You want him put back in to relieve a struggling Keenum who just lost the team a game, or is about to. Enter the hero type deal. The worst possible thing is to start TB against the Rams just because, watch him struggle and then having the fans chant, 'Kee-num, Kee-num!'. Nightmare for the team.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Its a different offensive under Shurmur with a good offensive line: does somebody really think Teddy wouldn't flourish also? Of course he would. But Case is going to start against the Rams....and should. He played very well. But those INTs were brutal. There is a leash on Keenum, just don't know the length of it.

I wouldn't peg it as a given that Bridgewater would also flourish the same in this offense. We would be taking a step down in mobility and deep ball accuracy at the position. I don't know that Bridgewater drops in those dimes to Thielen and Diggs like Keenum has. Keenum has made a lot of plays throwing on the run this season and I don't see Teddy being able to do the same and I am basing that on before he tore his knee up.

@"StickyBun" said: I don't think Bridgewater can be returned back to the starting job until Keenum messes up....it would put undo pressure on him. You want him put back in to relieve a struggling Keenum who just lost the team a game, or is about to. Enter the hero type deal. The worst possible thing is to start TB against the Rams just because, watch him struggle and then having the fans chant, 'Kee-num, Kee-num!'. Nightmare for the team.

 This really isn't that hard, Zimmer is going to put in the QB he feels gives the Vikings the best chance to win.  Looking through some of these responses, it seems fans are shooting to just make the playoffs.  Screw that, let's finally make some noise in the playoffs.

This wasn't questioned when it was Bradford/Keenum week to week.  Now, the Vikings organization is stupid for even thinking about making a switch.  It's a Bridgewater thing and that's it.  If one believes that Bridgewater is good, for the switch, and if one believes Bridgewater is bad, against the switch.  It's really that simple.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"FSUVike" said: His upside is better, Supra. That's just a fact. And the obvious projection is what he can do with all this talent around him on Offense that he never had before.

And let's face it, nobody on here honestly believes Case is a Franchise QB. Teddy might be, and the clock is ticking on finding out.

Keenum can get you a win at home in the Playoffs. But he's not a smart bet to get you to the Super Bowl.

So to Geoff's point, when do you mess with success and insert Bridgewater?  Classic 'damned if you do/damned if you don't' situation.

I think upside is arguable. Keenum is only 29 and has improved weekly since being inserted into the starting role. He has never played with a supporting cast like this in Houston and Los Angeles. How much better can he get leaving him in the starting position? Thielen and Diggs are having career years with Keenum under center and his mobility in the pocket has been a huge bonus in extending plays. Bridgewater has never shown me enough to make me think he's some huge "no-brainer" upgrade to Keenum as the starter and there is just so much damn unknown with him at this point.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"comet52" said: The fanbase is hungry and eager for the team to mess up a good thing.   Forcing TB onto the field will be the end of this good season.

how is it "forcing" if he is out performing Case in practice?  isnt that just putting the best player on the field?  If Teddy isnt looking markedly better than Case in practice why would they be considering starting him?  I am sure they are not going to put an inferior player out there just because it feels good.

I'd be more worried if they were throwing darts blindly. When Teddy gets into a game it will be because he is the better long-term solution, not because they want to see what happens. 

I admit I've not read the rest of the thread.  However, something on my mind currently is how people have been rating and seeing Case in a manner that's perhaps not much different than Thielen.  People put a cap on Adam and what he can do for various reasons that don't need to be mentioned.  Where we're at right now people are also putting a cap on Case.  We were told that he's simply a backup caliber QB so most are considering him as only that despite of what he's doing.  Regardless of what he accomplishes now, people are saying that someone else in his place would not only do what he has but would do even better.  He's performing as well or better than most QBs have for the Vikings but many are still expecting more.  If Case was out first round draft pick last season we'd be ecstatic, but since he's "just a backup" he's not good enough.

@"CLOBIMON" said: I admit I've not read the rest of the thread.  However, something on my mind currently is how people have been rating and seeing Case in a manner that's perhaps not much different than Thielen.  People put a cap on Adam and what he can do for various reasons that don't need to be mentioned.  Where we're at right now people are also putting a cap on Case.  We were told that he's simply a backup caliber QB so most are considering him as only that despite of what he's doing.  Regardless of what he accomplishes now, people are saying that someone else in his place would not only do what he has but would do even better.  He's performing as well or better than most QBs have for the Vikings but many are still expecting more.  If Case was out first round draft pick last season we'd be ecstatic, but since he's "just a backup" he's not good enough.

I think the extremes on both sides of this argument have tunnel vision when it comes to "their guy".  I can appreciate what Keenum has done and hopefully continues to do, but I won't fault the coaching staff for wanting to give Teddy a shot to show them he is our long-term QB moving forward. 

@"CLOBIMON" said: I admit I've not read the rest of the thread.  However, something on my mind currently is how people have been rating and seeing Case in a manner that's perhaps not much different than Thielen.  People put a cap on Adam and what he can do for various reasons that don't need to be mentioned.  Where we're at right now people are also putting a cap on Case.  We were told that he's simply a backup caliber QB so most are considering him as only that despite of what he's doing.  Regardless of what he accomplishes now, people are saying that someone else in his place would not only do what he has but would do even better.  He's performing as well or better than most QBs have for the Vikings but many are still expecting more.  If Case was out first round draft pick last season we'd be ecstatic, but since he's "just a backup" he's not good enough.

But the flaws get exposed now and then.  He is inconsistent.  Many here have pointed out how he stares down the WR.  He often determines where he is throwing before the snap, not after progressing through his reads.  See the INT he threw deep into triple coverage.  That type of play is really the issues.  It wasn't close to being caught by Rudolph, at no point did it look open. 

I think Shurmur is getting the most out of Keenum and dialing up some great plays.  But as teams get film on an offense, and IMO it takes about 8 games, they can start to get a read and play tendencies.  Eventually the QB needs to be able to make plays when the chips are stacked against him.  The Detroit game is another example of Case being a backup.  Multiple turnovers setting up detroit with a lead.  Still we had a chance and just needed a drive and score.  But instead, we took a sack and turned it over on downs. 

Case has gotten us to 7-2.  So he has done his part.  But some talking heads talk about backups having an expiration date, after which they start to stink.  I am afraid Case is about there.  He has played 8 games now and good defenses now have enough film to start to capitalize on his mistakes or his tendencies.  Don't forget Norman dropped an INT early that could have really changed that game.  The second INT was purely reading the QB and knowing where he was going.

We are 7-2 and bench the starting QB....just to see what we have in Teddy.
Only the Vikings  ;)

@"Norse" said: We are 7-2 and bench the starting QB....just to see what we have in Teddy. Only the Vikings  ;)