Case being made...

Teddy gets in the game when the division is ours, Case gets hurt or stinks it up for multiple straight games. (like less that 150 yards, and multiple picks per game).

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"FSUVike" said: If he'd played a completely clean game I think the argument could have been made that Keenum had a 2 game cushion over Teddy.

In other words he would have had to stink up the joint in two straight outings to get pulled for Bridgewater.

Now I believe it stands at one game. Can't pull him during the game no matter how bad he may play next week. Sends all kinds of wrong messages.

I don't disagree, I think Case has earned another game. But you also have to ask the question, does Bridgewater make the throws Case did early in the game? Hard to say. But its not like Case was throwing receivers open, many of the big plays were a result of his receiver/O-line. 

@"supafreak84" said: A couple things:

- I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play.

- I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.

as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl?  people forget how good teddy has been.  his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.

@"Bullazin" said:

@"supafreak84" said: A couple things:

- I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play.

- I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.

i dont remember you being  much into keenum,  but im not here all the time.

as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl?  people forget how good teddy has been.  his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"supafreak84" said: A couple things:

- I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play.

- I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.

i dont remember you being  much into keenum,  but im not here all the time.

as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl?  people forget how good teddy has been.  his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.

I thought Keenum was a huge step up from what we have done in past with the backup QB position. He really solidified that with a strong showing in the preseason.

Bridgewater only made the Pro Bowl due to other players not wanting to play (I believe he was a 3rd alternate). Has never thrown more than 14 TD's in a season and Keenum has 11 right now with an almost 93% passer rating. Case is playing at a level above what Bridgewater has ever played at the pro level. IMO people are overestimating Bridgewater as an "upgrade" based on anything more than good feelings because the stats don't support that.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Bullazin" said:

@"supafreak84" said: A couple things:

- I loved the Keenum signing this offseason. I thought he would be the best backup we have had in a long, long time and it was smart knowing the injury history with Bradford. Keenum has played beyond imagination leading this team. I love his intangibles, mobility in the pocket, and ability to throw on the run. I see a little Drew Brees watching him play.

- I don't get people that think making a QB change at this point to Bridgewater helps us in any way for numerous reasons. The offense is clicking right now and Bridgewater has not played a meaningful snap of football in a year and a half. On top of that Bridgewater has never played at the level Keenum is playing at right now. Bridgewater needs to play at some point to see what we have moving forward, but just handing him the reigns would be a huge mistake.

i dont remember you being  much into keenum,  but im not here all the time.

as far as your second paragraph, i dont think you could be more mistaken. when was the last time keenum played in a pro bowl?  people forget how good teddy has been.  his game is similar to keenum and while keenum has played very well, he is not as good as a healthy bridgewater level yet.

I thought Keenum was a huge step up from what we have done in past with the backup QB position. He really solidified that with a strong showing in the preseason.

Bridgewater only made the Pro Bowl due to other players not wanting to play (I believe he was a 3rd alternate). Has never thrown more than 14 TD's in a season and Keenum has 11 right now with an almost 93% passer rating. Case is playing at a level above what Bridgewater has ever played at the pro level. IMO people are overestimating Bridgewater as an "upgrade" based on anything more than good feelings because the stats don't support that.

I think a lot of fans have forgotten how much #5 checked-down, couldn't throw a back-shoulder fade, mediocre arm strength, low accuracy downfield etc. All of that on him? Probably not, not with that OL and what Norv asked of him. But a lot of it was. 

I think Case can make some throws now that we rarely saw from a young #5.

The hope for all of us was that those real warts Teddy had were going to start to wane year 3. I thought so and was really looking forward to that season. 

I guess we're right back there again, but where there is I'm not sure. Year 2 again? Or the precipice of year 3? We and the Vikings need to know. That much we all probably agree on. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"FSUVike" said: If he'd played a completely clean game I think the argument could have been made that Keenum had a 2 game cushion over Teddy.

In other words he would have had to stink up the joint in two straight outings to get pulled for Bridgewater.

Now I believe it stands at one game. Can't pull him during the game no matter how bad he may play next week. Sends all kinds of wrong messages.

I don't disagree, I think Case has earned another game. But you also have to ask the question, does Bridgewater make the throws Case did early in the game? Hard to say. But its not like Case was throwing receivers open, many of the big plays were a result of his receiver/O-line. 

Its a different offensive under Shurmur with a good offensive line: does somebody really think Teddy wouldn't flourish also? Of course he would. But Case is going to start against the Rams....and should. He played very well. But those INTs were brutal. There is a leash on Keenum, just don't know the length of it.

If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

@"Norse" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

And everyone said Case wasn't good enough to win against Washington. Guess what...The offense got the win for us. If Teddy gets in and does good...Great!! If he has a bad game,I'll start tallying the excuses being made.

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

And everyone said Case wasn't good enough to win against Washington. Guess what...The offense got the win for us. If Teddy gets in and does good...Great!! If he has a bad game,I'll start tallying the excuses being made.

They did? I don't recall anything of the sort...can you link a thread?

Nope...not being a dick...I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't beat the Redskins with Case...

@"BarrNone55" said: Nope...not being a dick...I don't recall anyone saying we couldn't beat the Redskins with Case...

@"Norse" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

And everyone said Case wasn't good enough to win against Washington. Guess what...The offense got the win for us. If Teddy gets in and does good...Great!! If he has a bad game,I'll start tallying the excuses being made.

@"StickyBun" said: Its a different offensive under Shurmur with a good offensive line: does somebody really think Teddy wouldn't flourish also? Of course he would. But Case is going to start against the Rams....and should. He played very well. But those INTs were brutal. There is a leash on Keenum, just don't know the length of it.

I wouldn't peg it as a given that Bridgewater would also flourish the same in this offense. We would be taking a step down in mobility and deep ball accuracy at the position. I don't know that Bridgewater drops in those dimes to Thielen and Diggs like Keenum has. Keenum has made a lot of plays throwing on the run this season and I don't see Teddy being able to do the same and I am basing that on before he tore his knee up.

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.  

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.

It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.  

@"StickyBun" said: Its a different offensive under Shurmur with a good offensive line: does somebody really think Teddy wouldn't flourish also? Of course he would. But Case is going to start against the Rams....and should. He played very well. But those INTs were brutal. There is a leash on Keenum, just don't know the length of it.

My concern moving forward is that inserting Teddy into a game after Case struggles doesn't give you a clear view of Teddy. Like I responded to Barr, you'd be playing catch-up on offense and the defense will be pinning their ears back. Bluntly, if you're putting Teddy into the game the contest is probably already out of hand. So although its harder to know what you'll get, let Teddy start. 

Last, timing is also a bit of a concern. The team has 7 games left (3 at home, 4 on the road). The game that means the most of the schedule right now is Thanksgiving @Det. Regardless the outcome vs. LA, If the Vikings can win that game Det is going to have trouble catching them. Starting Teddy on Thanksgiving coming off a short week is not realistic. You can push it to week 13 @ATL, but then you start pushing yourself against the wall on what you want to do in the playoffs. If you think Bridgewater is going to perform to his upside in this offense it will take some time and I don't know if its worth kicking the can down the road to see if they work that out down the stretch. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: If he starts the Rams game like he finished the Redskins game, Teddy will be in for the second half vs LA...

This is why you start Bridgewater against the Rams. You need to put him into a controlled environment, throwing him into the game at halftime is not ideal. If Case has a bad 1st half and you insert Bridgewater you already aren't giving him a chance to run the full offense since you'll be playing to catch up. The Rams could also play much more aggressively on defense.

It would be an easier transition to put start Bridgewater and revert back to Case if needed. Going the opposite way has many challenges.  

Yeah I just don't get that. To me at this point it makes all the sense in the world to continue to start Keenum until it doesn't make sense anymore. We are 6-2 with him as a starter and his passer rating is 93%. Huge roll of the dice inserting a guy as a starter who hasn't played a snap of football in a year and a half (against the Rams no less). Balls of steel if Zimmer does this.