Zimmer -- what does he need to do?

I think the expectations at the start of the year were championship game,  a poor start shouldn't change those expectations so I stick with that.    Simply making the playoffs or winning a single playoff game shouldn't be enough, especially with the expanded playoffs.  This team was supposed to compete and beat with the best in the league and to date thats all they've done is compete.

No try hard trophies in this league. 

Championship game or bust. Hell get to the NFCCG. It is not happening but it would be helpful. No more excuses. No more moral victories. No more woulda, shoulda, coulda. No more what ifs. 

@"Vikergirl" said: Championship game or bust. Hell get to the NFCCG. It is not happening but it would be helpful. No more excuses. No more moral victories. No more woulda, shoulda, coulda. No more what ifs. 

Yep. And he needs to stop being a sissy by hiding his red man in a bag of sunflower seeds. Just pull out that chew straight from the bag you pansy.

Wilfs wont show him the door if he wins a playoff game. I'm not sure they'll move on if they have 9 wins and dont make the playoffs either. 

I think Cleveland was a very good barometer to let us know how we stack up to elite teams.  Yes, I do think the Browns are a SB contender.   The Vikes are a good team, but I don't see elite anything so far this season.  I see an improved team from last year, but not a top 5 team.  I'm not sure if this team can even beat the Bears or compete with GB.

He at least needs to make the playoffs. For the first time in his tenure with Minnesota, defense is a problem. You can't blame Zimmer for losing half his defense to injury last year. But the Vikings brought in a dozen free agents and it's still no better. 

Zimmer was never a top game planner or game manager. So if you take away the one thing he does very well, then he's left with nothing. 

Missing the leader of the defense in Barr has likey had an impact, so we'll see if his return makes a difference.

@"purplefaithful" said: Wilfs wont show him the door if he wins a playoff game. I'm not sure they'll move on if they have 9 wins and dont make the playoffs either. 

This absolutely pisses me off. Also injuries happen every year. Last year was obviously an exception but they still have not resolved the OL issues. After this many years? That is completely and utterly unacceptable. Maybe Zimmer has hit the wall on defense. This is like the on again off again relationship that sucks you back in. If you want different results, you can't do the same thing over and over again.

If we make the playoffs I think his job is safe.
If it were up to me, the bar would be higher and he'd need to win some playoff games, but I'm not an uber-rich NFL franchise owner.

I do see that Zimmer himself voted in this poll.

I don’t think it’s really number of wins, but maybe the tone
of our wins and losses.  Restricting it
down to purely number of wins, 9 is probably pretty safe.  8 is moderately safe.  7 is a risky amount of wins.  I think you could probably summarize his safety
level in terms of how we do in close games. 
If our losses are heartwrenching close losses where we underperformed
and our wins are walk through the park, win by 8 points, I think that’s bad for
Zimmer.

In all actuality, I think that Zimmer and Cousins are tied
together for the length of Cousins contract, unless something really bad
happens.  I think the most likely
situation is that Cousins and Zimmer end up being middle of the road in terms
of wins, and they are both given next year and they end up being middle of the
road that year as well and are both replaced.  My traditional view of Cousins is that he puts
up great stats but that it doesn’t lead to wins and that he has too many off
days, where just a little bit more would have led us to a win.  I’m starting to warm to him more, but I still
think he’s got this thing where meh days are acceptable, you know if he dies,
he dies, and if the team loses, the team loses.

I think Zimmer has continually made some questionable
decisions regarding his coaching staff and he’s had some bad luck happen to him
with his offensive coordinators leaving and having no continuity on offense
almost every single season.  I think that
having inexperienced coordinators is a challenge.  I think having co-coordinators that are
splitting their focus between coordinating and positional coaching is a
challenge.  I’d be curious to know how
much Kubiak the elder is participating. 
I’d have really liked to have seen him participating part time in a
mentorship type role, but he might be doing that already.  I think Zimmer’s defensive scheme is a
challenge to learn and execute at a high level. 
It seems like we bring in non-Zimmer FAs and it takes them a while to buy
into the team defense concept, where they just have to do their job and it
works, but if they play hero ball it’s a struggle.

If I were him, I think if we end up with a mediocre record,
I’d figure out how to trade Cousins and put Mond in for 2022.  I think Zimmer needs to break away from mediocre
and find a spark, and Cousins is like the definition of bland.  I think, public relations wise, he’d be
better off going with the riskier QB, where it’s new, exciting and you can
point to him and say, well he’s a rookie, so it’s part of the learning curve.

This is also the first time in a while I am questioning RS...

6 new pieces on d will take a while to gel, but to-date those are not (Woods aside) looking like great signings.

Lack of early contribution from this years draft class isn't a feather in a cap either. In a vacuum that doesnt sound awful, but in light of the last 3-4 years its just another bad to mediocre data-point. 

The Barr signing in retrospect has been awfully disappointing as well. 

I sure hope we're not going to regret letting Paton and Stefanski leave. 

9 wins and make the playoffs? The bar is really low and that's ridiculous. It is one excuse after another. Make the playoffs, then what? Win a game? Get ass blasted? No wonder Zimmer is still here. I remember at that introductory training camp he was all about bringing a championship here and now it's making the playoffs. Whoop dee doo.

@"MaroonBells" said: He at least needs to make the playoffs. For the first time in his tenure with Minnesota, defense is a problem. You can't blame Zimmer for losing half his defense to injury last year. But the Vikings brought in a dozen free agents and it's still no better. 

Zimmer was never a top game planner or game manager. So if you take away the one thing he does very well, then he's left with nothing. 

Missing the leader of the defense in Barr has likey had an impact, so we'll see if his return makes a difference.

I think it's a stretch to say our defense is a problem this year...  no one (other than the Jags of all teams) has stopped the Cardinals offense...  the defense did a great job in the 2nd half of that game.  We had a few mistakes really hurt us against Cincy in Week 1 but our offense was mostly to blame with all the penalties and failed drives in the first half.  Otherwise we shut down the Seahawks most of the game and held the Browns to 14 points.  Not sure what the defense could have done better in other games?  Let's face it, all these new faces on defense need time to gel, but they've played good enough for this team to be 3-1.  Our kicker let us down one game and our offense was inconsistent in 2 others.

I think Zimmer is gone after this season.

50/50 on what the Wilf's do with Spelly.

I think you need to start with expectations.  From what I can see, this is an "all in" year.  Zimmer got lots of new toys this year on the defense on one year contracts.  He got the DT he wanted.  My expectations were this team should compete for the SB.

Then you look at Zimmer's overall record.  Playoffs every other year.  Only one playoff win.  Losing record against winning teams.  I believe he is the longest tenured coach never to make it to the SB.  At some point, you have to get off the "good enough" train even if you don't know what the next train looks like.

So, 8 games clearly not enough (clearly Zimmer voted for this).  9 same.

Make playoffs.  We have seen this before.  If you are happy making the playoffs every other year, good for you.  At my age that is not good enough. 40 years of fandom requires the Vikings to truly go for it.  Dare to be great.

One playoff win.  That will make 3 during Zim's reign.  Not enough.  No progress.  We need higher standards.

I require them to make the SB this year.  Pull it together or get out.  Put up or shut up.  I need to see that Zim has championship pedigree instead of 9-7 pedigree.  Dream big and require more.

Here is another way to look at it:

It is 2013 and you are hiring a new coach.  If you were told that coach would lead the Vikings to an overall record of 65-48-1 record across 8 seasons, a playoff record of 2-3, 2 division crowns and a 17-41 (29%) record against teams that finish with winning records -- would you have hired him?  That is 8 years of your Viking fandom that you will never get back.  Maybe as you get older, you understand that better.

@"VikingOracle" said: Here is another way to look at it:

It is 2013 and you are hiring a new coach.  If you were told that coach would lead the Vikings to an overall record of 65-48-1 record across 8 seasons, a playoff record of 2-3, 2 division crowns and a 17-41 (29%) record against teams that finish with winning records -- would you have hired him?  That is 8 years of your Viking fandom that you will never get back.  Maybe as you get older, you understand that better.

My greatest time as a fan during the Zimsu tenure was 2015...Young and promising QB, upcoming and fearsome D - winning the division @ Lamblow...

Zimmer hasn't been awful ala Steckel or Frasier or even Ticey (who had to deal with McCombs)...He's had his snakebite to overcome, but he also had better rosters to field than any of those 3. 

I'd put him @ #4 overall 

Grant
The Sheriff
Burns
Zimmer

Not terrible, but not enough.

As a fan since the 70's, I share much of your perspective on the team. Never/EVER would I have guessed we'd not reach a SB again since 1977. 

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: He at least needs to make the playoffs. For the first time in his tenure with Minnesota, defense is a problem. You can't blame Zimmer for losing half his defense to injury last year. But the Vikings brought in a dozen free agents and it's still no better. 

Zimmer was never a top game planner or game manager. So if you take away the one thing he does very well, then he's left with nothing. 

Missing the leader of the defense in Barr has likey had an impact, so we'll see if his return makes a difference.

I think it's a stretch to say our defense is a problem this year...  no one (other than the Jags of all teams) has stopped the Cardinals offense...  the defense did a great job in the 2nd half of that game.  We had a few mistakes really hurt us against Cincy in Week 1 but our offense was mostly to blame with all the penalties and failed drives in the first half.  Otherwise we shut down the Seahawks most of the game and held the Browns to 14 points.  Not sure what the defense could have done better in other games?  Let's face it, all these new faces on defense need time to gel, but they've played good enough for this team to be 3-1.  Our kicker let us down one game and our offense was inconsistent in 2 others.

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: He at least needs to make the playoffs. For the first time in his tenure with Minnesota, defense is a problem. You can't blame Zimmer for losing half his defense to injury last year. But the Vikings brought in a dozen free agents and it's still no better. 

Zimmer was never a top game planner or game manager. So if you take away the one thing he does very well, then he's left with nothing. 

Missing the leader of the defense in Barr has likey had an impact, so we'll see if his return makes a difference.

I think it's a stretch to say our defense is a problem this year...  no one (other than the Jags of all teams) has stopped the Cardinals offense...  the defense did a great job in the 2nd half of that game.  We had a few mistakes really hurt us against Cincy in Week 1 but our offense was mostly to blame with all the penalties and failed drives in the first half.  Otherwise we shut down the Seahawks most of the game and held the Browns to 14 points.  Not sure what the defense could have done better in other games?  Let's face it, all these new faces on defense need time to gel, but they've played good enough for this team to be 3-1.  Our kicker let us down one game and our offense was inconsistent in 2 others.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: He at least needs to make the playoffs. For the first time in his tenure with Minnesota, defense is a problem. You can't blame Zimmer for losing half his defense to injury last year. But the Vikings brought in a dozen free agents and it's still no better. 

Zimmer was never a top game planner or game manager. So if you take away the one thing he does very well, then he's left with nothing. 

Missing the leader of the defense in Barr has likey had an impact, so we'll see if his return makes a difference.

I think it's a stretch to say our defense is a problem this year...  no one (other than the Jags of all teams) has stopped the Cardinals offense...  the defense did a great job in the 2nd half of that game.  We had a few mistakes really hurt us against Cincy in Week 1 but our offense was mostly to blame with all the penalties and failed drives in the first half.  Otherwise we shut down the Seahawks most of the game and held the Browns to 14 points.  Not sure what the defense could have done better in other games?  Let's face it, all these new faces on defense need time to gel, but they've played good enough for this team to be 3-1.  Our kicker let us down one game and our offense was inconsistent in 2 others.

Well, if you look at my other post on the topic, I'm not just blaming the defense. The whole team is out of sync, each week finding new and different ways to drop games. 

The OL is lights out one game, terrible the next. Kicker's been really good but misses a 37-yard game winner. That IDL group should be playing the run a lot better than they have. The whole defensive scheme is predicated on the idea that the run can be managed by the DL, and they just haven't been doing that as well as they should. And who knows what's going on with Breeland and Dantzler? 

I expect it to gel eventually and render this thread moot. I just hope it's not too late when it does.