Which stage of grief are you in about Zimmer?

@"AGRforever" said: I’m over Zim. I moved to acceptance last year. 

I’m also over Kirk. He needs to go. Its past time we realize that “decent” or “game manager” shouldnt also mean top salary. 

I think Id hang onto Speileman at this point?  Though our lack of 1st round difference makers is starting to show. I almost wish they’d let someone else do the first pick and let slick rick handle the rest. 

I wrote something up on this a couple of weeks ago and the only response I noticed was one seeing it as saying Cousins does no wrong. It wasn’t about Cousins, it was about this staff and it starts at the top.
I like Zimmer and he’s the kind of defensive coordinator you like, but as a head coach he’s far too inflexible. Cousins should have been calling most of our plays at the line starting a couple of years ago. He does well in hurry up because it’s on him to do it. He’s more than capable. As is, he nearly always runs the play and works the progressions exactly as instructed. For the most part, he’s a robot out there. This is Zimmer. He’s a “system” guy. He believes that’s the way to win - follow orders from the coaches to a T. Zimmer simply can’t let go of that control. 
The same can be said for defense. Anyone think Kendricks is capable of calling a needed adjustment? Of course he is. Is he allowed much flexibility? Heck no. It’s Zimmer’s way or the highway. 
Good coaches can adapt. Good coaches learn to trust players. Good coaches run game plans to their players strengths, taking advantage of them. 
Good coaches have their team prepared! Good coaches give them reps as a unit so they’re ready for week one. Good coaches build disciplined units, not sloppy penalty producing juggernauts. 
What we’ve seen over and over are undisciplined and ill prepared defensive and offensive units taking the field to start our year. Sometimes by sheer luck or unique talent they pull off a win or two, but for the most part the team is often having to overcome itself as much as the opposition. 
Personally, I’ve been over Zimmer’s inability to put out a disciplined and cohesive unit after seeing the preseason. As much as I like the guy and want him to succeed, he just can’t get out of his own way. 
Unless things change and change quickly, it’s going to be a very long year in my opinion.

I gave up on Zimmer in 2016.   Too much weird behavior and obvious shortcomings from him, he was not HC material it was plain to me.  Spielman more like 2-3 years ago. 

This franchise had a great opportunity to clean house, promote Stefanski and/or Paton and start over after that embarrassment in San Fran.   I was pleading for it.   But ownership just seems stubbornly attached to the familiar and to whatever mythology they've built around imagined potential.   So the mediocrity disguised as "being in contention" drags on for years.   

The team that showed up today and lost to a bottom feeder like Cincy isn't going to win a single road game outside of maybe Detroit, and it isn't going 8-0 at home.   Off this performance you'd have to call them maybe a 5 win team.   

If you are going to scapegoat Zimmer and give Spielman a free pass, you can knock this crap off.
They both need to go. 
The Wilf family may be getting a good financial gain for their investment, but I don't think they are getting the performance gain they would like, or deserve.
The first game isn't terribly predictive, but if things don't turn around, I think it is time for a new plan.

I have been ready to move on the last two years. (Both Rick and the CB whisperer)

I was trying to be optimistic leading into yesterday's game given how bad everything went last year. Zimmer got his way with Free Agents, basically getting every DL and CB/S he wanted. The result? 127 yards from Mixon and 128.8 QB rating from a guy who hasnt played since week 10 of last year. Throw in the embarrassment of penalties in the first half and you have to wonder what the hell Zimmer was even doing for preparation. 

He truly has been one of Minnesota's best coaches, but it's time. We need a young mind leading the team and I'm all in on Kellen Moore as next HC.

@"Havoc1649" said: I wrote something up on this a couple of weeks ago and the only response I noticed was one seeing it as saying Cousins does no wrong. It wasn’t about Cousins, it was about this staff and it starts at the top.

I like Zimmer and he’s the kind of defensive coordinator you like, but as a head coach he’s far too inflexible. Cousins should have been calling most of our plays at the line starting a couple of years ago. He does well in hurry up because it’s on him to do it. He’s more than capable. As is, he nearly always runs the play and works the progressions exactly as instructed. For the most part, he’s a robot out there. This is Zimmer. He’s a “system” guy. He believes that’s the way to win - follow orders from the coaches to a T. Zimmer simply can’t let go of that control.  The same can be said for defense. Anyone think Kendricks is capable of calling a needed adjustment? Of course he is. Is he allowed much flexibility? Heck no. It’s Zimmer’s way or the highway.  Good coaches can adapt. Good coaches learn to trust players. Good coaches run game plans to their players strengths, taking advantage of them.  Good coaches have their team prepared! Good coaches give them reps as a unit so they’re ready for week one. Good coaches build disciplined units, not sloppy penalty producing juggernauts.  What we’ve seen over and over are undisciplined and ill prepared defensive and offensive units taking the field to start our year. Sometimes by sheer luck or unique talent they pull off a win or two, but for the most part the team is often having to overcome itself as much as the opposition.  Personally, I’ve been over Zimmer’s inability to put out a disciplined and cohesive unit after seeing the preseason. As much as I like the guy and want him to succeed, he just can’t get out of his own way.  Unless things change and change quickly, it’s going to be a very long year in my opinion.

As far as Zimmer being inflexible and having archaic schemes...  anyone notice how we mixed in 3-4 looks in the first half yesterday?  It worked and had Burrow confused.  The tale of the game was offensive penalties in the first half...  they killed drives or put the offense in a tough spot to overcome them.  I don't really put the pre-snap penalties on Zimmer.  Players need to pull their heads outta their ass, not sure how that's Zimmer's fault when Ham has two false starts and a couple other players go early too? At the end of the day, players need to make sure they are mentally ready to play.  That's not the coaches job.  The coaches job is to make sure the gameplan is good and everyone understands what we're trying to do on offense, defense, and special teams.

Zimmer has his own faults (that he freely admits when he fucks up), but this just seems like piling on.  I mean look at McVay and others...  Zimmer gave his starters as much time as Andy Reid in preseason and more than Sean McVay who didn't play any of his starters at all in preseason.  It didn't stop them from playing well on offense and getting a win.

We'll see how this season goes, but lots of overreacting to Week 1.  And not just our fanbase...  it's every team, every year.  Lets give it a few weeks.  We all knew all these new faces on defense needed some time to gel.  I was most surprised our offense looked as flat as it did for so long.

I’ve accepted he was a bad coach for at least three years.  He no longer is able to even get their attention it seems.  Uninspired football for quite some time now

"We have a lot of work to do"

You've been here what, 7 years?

Bring in 2 new DT's, new DBs and get this result:

Joe Mixon 29 carries 127 yards 4.4 ypc

Meanwhile our new OC with Dalvin Cook:  20 carries 61 yards

After witnessing a pro team rack up 17 penalties, that's coaching and discipline.  Hire an OC, only because he's the son of your last coach, who has never called plays before???   That's your pick for OC, a rookie playcaller?  And how did that offense look despite Thielen, JJ, Cook as weapons?  

It's over. The post-draft grades for MN always look good until 5 years later.

I don't care that it's Week 1, the entire coaching staff and GM need to go at end of season 

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Havoc1649" said: I wrote something up on this a couple of weeks ago and the only response I noticed was one seeing it as saying Cousins does no wrong. It wasn’t about Cousins, it was about this staff and it starts at the top.

I like Zimmer and he’s the kind of defensive coordinator you like, but as a head coach he’s far too inflexible. Cousins should have been calling most of our plays at the line starting a couple of years ago. He does well in hurry up because it’s on him to do it. He’s more than capable. As is, he nearly always runs the play and works the progressions exactly as instructed. For the most part, he’s a robot out there. This is Zimmer. He’s a “system” guy. He believes that’s the way to win - follow orders from the coaches to a T. Zimmer simply can’t let go of that control.  The same can be said for defense. Anyone think Kendricks is capable of calling a needed adjustment? Of course he is. Is he allowed much flexibility? Heck no. It’s Zimmer’s way or the highway.  Good coaches can adapt. Good coaches learn to trust players. Good coaches run game plans to their players strengths, taking advantage of them.  Good coaches have their team prepared! Good coaches give them reps as a unit so they’re ready for week one. Good coaches build disciplined units, not sloppy penalty producing juggernauts.  What we’ve seen over and over are undisciplined and ill prepared defensive and offensive units taking the field to start our year. Sometimes by sheer luck or unique talent they pull off a win or two, but for the most part the team is often having to overcome itself as much as the opposition.  Personally, I’ve been over Zimmer’s inability to put out a disciplined and cohesive unit after seeing the preseason. As much as I like the guy and want him to succeed, he just can’t get out of his own way.  Unless things change and change quickly, it’s going to be a very long year in my opinion.

You can't run hurry up all game...  and Cousins might have more autonomy if our OCs that Zimmer hired weren't so good they keep getting hired as HCs.  The players are learning a new offense again, sure it's similar to what older Kubiak ran last year, but this is Klint's offense.  Before Older Kubes it was Stefanski's offense.  I'd buy your argument a little more if we had been in the same offense since Kirk was signed in 2018...  but that isn't the case.

As far as Zimmer being inflexible and having archaic schemes...  anyone notice how we mixed in 3-4 looks in the first half yesterday?  It worked and had Burrow confused.  The tale of the game was offensive penalties in the first half...  they killed drives or put the offense in a tough spot to overcome them.  I don't really put the pre-snap penalties on Zimmer.  Players need to pull their heads outta their ass, not sure how that's Zimmer's fault when Ham has two false starts and a couple other players go early too? At the end of the day, players need to make sure they are mentally ready to play.  That's not the coaches job.  The coaches job is to make sure the gameplan is good and everyone understands what we're trying to do on offense, defense, and special teams.

Zimmer has his own faults (that he freely admits when he fucks up), but this just seems like piling on.  I mean look at McVay and others...  Zimmer gave his starters as much time as Andy Reid in preseason and more than Sean McVay who didn't play any of his starters at all in preseason.  It didn't stop them from playing well on offense and getting a win.

We'll see how this season goes, but lots of overreacting to Week 1.  And not just our fanbase...  it's every team, every year.  Lets give it a few weeks.  We all knew all these new faces on defense needed some time to gel.  I was most surprised our offense looked as flat as it did for so long.

Year after year we tell ourselves we have so much talent on this team and yet we are consistently mediocre on the field game after game, season after season.  Are we as talented as we think or are we just not coached-up to capitalize on the talent?  

I think we have a ton of talent that is not coached well enough to put us into consistent winner contender.  

Now, well before this season, I have been down on Zimmer and said that this is probably his last year.  I also consistently said that I don't think Spelly and Zimmer are tied together.  If we have the ton of talent I will give the GM credit for that and the coaches the blame for not getting enough out of the talent.  

This offseason, I flipped on my support of Kirk.  I think he is a weirdo moron who has the opposite of the "it" factor needed to be the guy!  But we are locked-in on the Cousins contract for this and next season at 72 million and that is a Spelly decision - that I supported at that time just to be honest.  I also wanted us to look really hard in the first round for a future QB despite our sunk-cost  on Cousins.  

Basically, the point of my disjointed thoughts:

I have been down on Zimmer since Philly
I am down on Kirk after this offseason
I am starting to waver on Spelly

Christian Ponder
Matt Kalil
Harrison Smith 
Shariff Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Cordarrelle Patterson
Anthony Barr
Teddy Bridgewater
Trae Waynes
Laquon Treadwell
Mike Hughes
Garrett Bradbury
Justin Jefferson
Jeff Gladney
Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

I think we're missing one thing that worried a few of us going into this game. Things Jake Browning could've done to bite us in the ass:

1. Guys, this young line is being to taught to strategically hold. Everyone holds. Some just know how to get away with it more than others. Coaches to refs before the game: "watch the holding." Result: every single damned close-call hold was called. The entire bar was laughing it was so ridiculous. I've honestly never seen anything like it. 

2. Rashod HIll crosses his feet on deep pass sets. An upfield, outside rush will beat him every time. 

3. Vikings will do A when they're in formation B. 

4. Here are the changes to the Vikings defense. They'll disguise 4-3 and jump into 3-4. Here are the keys to watch for. 

5. Here are the things Cousins is struggling with in KK's new playbook. Here are KK's blind spots. 

There have to be about two dozen things he could've told them. Typically you get this stuff from film. Week 1 there is no film. Browning was our QB2 for three years and through training camp. He would've known it all. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Ponder--BUST
Matt Kalil--BUST
Harrison Smith--DEFINITE HOME RUN
Shariff Floyd--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Xavier Rhodes-- SUCCESS
Cordarrelle Patterson--BUST ( Especially considering the draft capital spent to get him )
Anthony Barr--SUCCESS ( But not when you consider that they passed on Aaron fricking Donald , but Barr has been a starter for many years)
Teddy Bridgewater--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Trae Waynes--Success... but not by much
Laquon Treadwell--BUST
Mike Hughes--BUST
Garrett Bradbury--STILL Early but I am saying BUST
Justin Jefferson--Early,  but looks like a SUCCESS
Jeff Gladney--BUST

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

@"Skodin" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Ponder--BUST
Matt Kalil--BUST
Harrison Smith--DEFINITE HOME RUN
Shariff Floyd--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Xavier Rhodes-- SUCCESS
Cordarrelle Patterson--BUST ( Especially considering the draft capital spent to get him )
Anthony Barr--SUCCESS ( But not when you consider that they passed on Aaron fricking Donald , but Barr has been a starter for many years)
Teddy Bridgewater--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Trae Waynes--Success... but not by much
Laquon Treadwell--BUST
Mike Hughes--BUST
Garrett Bradbury--STILL Early but I am saying BUST
Justin Jefferson--Early,  but looks like a SUCCESS
Jeff Gladney--BUST

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

Which is a great reason to trade 1st for DeShaun Watson.  Give them 3 firsts and Cousins, some later picks.  

We draft better beyond the first and with Watson and these weapons, we would be a threat in every game.  

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Ponder--BUST
Matt Kalil--BUST
Harrison Smith--DEFINITE HOME RUN
Shariff Floyd--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Xavier Rhodes-- SUCCESS
Cordarrelle Patterson--BUST ( Especially considering the draft capital spent to get him )
Anthony Barr--SUCCESS ( But not when you consider that they passed on Aaron fricking Donald , but Barr has been a starter for many years)
Teddy Bridgewater--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Trae Waynes--Success... but not by much
Laquon Treadwell--BUST
Mike Hughes--BUST
Garrett Bradbury--STILL Early but I am saying BUST
Justin Jefferson--Early,  but looks like a SUCCESS
Jeff Gladney--BUST

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

@"Rigby" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Ponder--BUST
Matt Kalil--BUST
Harrison Smith--DEFINITE HOME RUN
Shariff Floyd--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Xavier Rhodes-- SUCCESS
Cordarrelle Patterson--BUST ( Especially considering the draft capital spent to get him )
Anthony Barr--SUCCESS ( But not when you consider that they passed on Aaron fricking Donald , but Barr has been a starter for many years)
Teddy Bridgewater--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Trae Waynes--Success... but not by much
Laquon Treadwell--BUST
Mike Hughes--BUST
Garrett Bradbury--STILL Early but I am saying BUST
Justin Jefferson--Early,  but looks like a SUCCESS
Jeff Gladney--BUST

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

You are more gracious than me. Was not a fan of either the Waynes or Barr picks. Saw a lot of Floyd in college as well, never had particularly high hopes for him. Rick has had some success in the 2nd (so, why trade a 2 for Ngakoue?) but has to be better in the first. Lack of success there creates the depth issues we've seen. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Rigby" said: Christian Ponder Matt Kalil Harrison Smith  Shariff Floyd Xavier Rhodes Cordarrelle Patterson Anthony Barr Teddy Bridgewater Trae Waynes Laquon Treadwell Mike Hughes Garrett Bradbury Justin Jefferson Jeff Gladney Christian Darrisaw

You have to be better than this in the 1st.

Christian Ponder--BUST
Matt Kalil--BUST
Harrison Smith--DEFINITE HOME RUN
Shariff Floyd--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Xavier Rhodes-- SUCCESS
Cordarrelle Patterson--BUST ( Especially considering the draft capital spent to get him )
Anthony Barr--SUCCESS ( But not when you consider that they passed on Aaron fricking Donald , but Barr has been a starter for many years)
Teddy Bridgewater--BUST ( injury, could happen to anybody )
Trae Waynes--Success... but not by much
Laquon Treadwell--BUST
Mike Hughes--BUST
Garrett Bradbury--STILL Early but I am saying BUST
Justin Jefferson--Early,  but looks like a SUCCESS
Jeff Gladney--BUST

Christian Darrisaw--WAY TO EARLY.

9 BUSTS ( 7 if you dont count the 2 injuries to Teddy and Shariff) 
5 SUCCESSES

The NFL average is 53%, success on first round picks.  Looks like Speilman is under 42%.

@"MaroonBells" said: I think we're missing one thing that worried a few of us going into this game. Things Jake Browning could've done to bite us in the ass:

1. Guys, this young line is being to taught to strategically hold. Everyone holds. Some just know how to get away with it more than others. Coaches to refs before the game: "watch the holding." Result: every single damned close-call hold was called. The entire bar was laughing it was so ridiculous. I've honestly never seen anything like it. 

2. Rashod HIll crosses his feet on deep pass sets. An upfield, outside rush will beat him every time. 

3. Vikings will do A when they're in formation B. 

4. Here are the changes to the Vikings defense. They'll disguise 4-3 and jump into 3-4. Here are the keys to watch for. 

5. Here are the things Cousins is struggling with in KK's new playbook. Here are KK's blind spots. 

There have to be about two dozen things he could've told them. Typically you get this stuff from film. Week 1 there is no film. Browning was our QB2 for three years and through training camp. He would've known it all.