Could The Vikings Trade Diggs This Offseason?

@"BlackMagic7" said: If we're reflecting on how little he is used for what he's getting paid...

I want to know why he was extended in the first place - then Thielen - then Cousins brought in - to run THIS offense?! How much money do you need into the passing game to rely on a rookie offensive coordinator and a 2nd round RB you aren't going to want to pay anyway?

I mean, take just a step or two back in time past justifying moving Diggs because we're 30th in attempts - how the hell did we ever get to this point? It bothers me thinking about how shit our passing game recently was - to have Diggs emerge and get paid to continue doing it - to have Thielen get paid - then bringing in Cousins - and being right back where we were with all of them here!

Then promoting Kevin Stefanski and having the offense go 30th in passing attempts. I don't understand how Irv Smith is on the Kyle Rudolph career trajectory. I don't understand why Kyle doesn't run more routes (except, he's getting older and older). I want to pull my hair out contemplating how dis-coordinated it all really is.  

I want to pull my hair out because you guys are right - we don't need to pay for that shit if we aren't going to use it. We absolutely should be utilizing all of our WRs more. Usually you give extensions and pay players for what they are going to do on the field, not what they have already done. We've paid dudes and have gotten some pretty disconnected, directionless results.

Pretty much all of this went right down the drain this season with Dalvin. And more hair pulling; a lot of us don't want to resign him at a high price tag. So after resigning and spending so much money on the passing game, our offense now went through a lucky 2nd round pick who nobody wants to pay. What are we doing? How does all of this calculated, planned out shit from the front office culminate in that?

This a great point.
I think the answer to, "how did we end up here?", is that we've had something like 5 OCs in 5 years. And now we have another new one.
You could have the best GM in the world but when every offseason you have a brand new OC telling you he needs a certain kind of player, it makes it impossible to build a perfect unit. Not to mention how annoying it must be for the actual players to learn a new system every year.
Continuity has helped our defense, and crippled our offense. Our Head Coach taking little-to-no ownership over said offenses every year also has an affect.
I'm hopeful that FSUVike and some others are right and that a piece here, a piece there can get the Vikings over the hump. But the more I think about it, the more skeptical I become. However, once the draft is closer I'm sure I will be fully back on board the hype train. And if the draft goes well, it's on to training camp, the season, and the Super Bowl babay!!!

Some people think that a great oline and average QB is the key. I don't. I think it starts with a great QB with an average oline. The Cowboys have a top oline and an average QB. I think if we are keeping our average QB then we need to keep our top WR's, they are definitely worth more than our average QB.

I'm not an optimist. I'm a realist. No one can deny the reality of how much better Josh Kline, a borderline Tier 2/3 Free Agent, played compared to Remmers. Nobody was banging the drum to sign this guy. But Rick, certainly with input from Gary and Rick Dennison, inked him. Very late if Free Agency IIRC.

Pat Elflien just turned in a worse performance than his predecessor,  Compton. In many ways as bad as Remmers. Upgrading from that to League Average will go just as far as what Kline did this year. 

And there's the lesson we learned from the 9ers. A former Bust at LG. Backup Center. Journeyman RG. Look what Kyle got out of them using a very similar system to Gary's. 

Yes, Bradbury struggled a lot. But he improved. And will add strength. There's no reason to believe he won't get better just like Ragnow did. And he won't have a gaping hole playing on his left. 

2nd year in a system that maximizes the strengths of the QB but now will be called by a far more experienced Coordinator. One we've actually seen making in-game adjustments. One we've actually seen cobble together high-performing Lines without premium picks and yet already has a 1st and 2nd Rounder to build around. 

And just as importantly, we've seen him get production from 2 great Receivers. Emmanuel Sanders and Demaryius Thomas combined for 181 catches, over 2,400 yards and 12 TDs during their Super Bowl season. With a QB that could hardly go deep!

Think about that. He got a thousand yard season from both of his stud Receivers with Manning barely able to throw the ball. That's coaching, plain and simple.

So now Gary gets a better duo, at least in my opinion. With a QB that's Top 10 in going deep. AND two TEs and RBs that will kill teams underneath if they double team both WRs. But before he can even get to play mad scientist you want to trade Diggs. With absolutely zero viable pieces on the roster to replace him. And why? Because the last two Barely Legal OCs weren't smart enough to unlock the full potential of Thielen & Diggs? Because Diggs can be high maintenance? As if there's a single team in the League with no player on their entire roster like that. 

The only way it would make sense would be a good Starter at a position of need plus a high pick. Like a  Thuney-type player and a 2nd . Really, it would need to be a young guy that wouldn't need an extension right away. CB or 3T would make more sense given Gary's track record with fielding good to great Lines without a lot of high picks.

Would be hard to look around the League and find a team that is just 1 Wide Receiver away from serious contention that also has a young Starter and would give up a high pick. Probably isn't one. So the value just isn't there.

Another thing to consider is that Gary and Rick Dennison probably had huge input on the Samia and Udoh picks. Dru had all the measurables and the nasty streak in school but he was still fairly raw from a technique perspective. And technique is king in the OZBS. I'm not as down on him failing to beat out Elf during the season. He was picked specifically to go into the oven and bake for a year, just like Oli. 

Look how quick Kline developed after looking done in Tennessee. Adding another Kline-type player to compete with Samia and probably another mid-round Draft pick has a very high probability of yielding a League Average Left Guard. Which will be a major improvement. There's also Free Agency and the Draft to look into upgrading from Reiff, who's still serviceable, though overly pricey.

Cousins in the 2nd straight year in the system Shanahan wanted so desperately to put him in. With an actually experienced playcaller who can make in-game adjustments. A better Line. A full offseason for Irv and Bisi to develop. And two lethal WRs. All this coming off of a season where the team already had a Top 10 Offense. I'm not optimistic. I'm being realistic. Improvement to say a Top 5 Offense is the most likely outcome without a slew of injuries. 

@"FLVike" said: Some people think that a great oline and average QB is the key. I don't. I think it starts with a great QB with an average oline. The Cowboys have a top oline and an average QB. I think if we are keeping our average QB then we need to keep our top WR's, they are definitely worth more than our average QB.

if only we had an average OL,  but unfortunately we have an average QB and a below average OL,  so having above average WR doesnt really compute at this time since when teams have above average DL they make our OL and QB look like chicken shit which makes to above average WR spectators,  which is why they throw tantrums from time to time.

@"BarrNone55" said:

Adam Patrick

@Str8_Cash_Homey

Cool...

Quote Tweet

DIGGS

@stefondiggs

· 4m

I don’t forget or forgive...

fuck... i cant find my decoder ring.

This seems to be his thing...tilting at windmills...

@"BarrNone55" said:

Adam Patrick

@Str8_Cash_Homey

Cool...

Quote Tweet

DIGGS

@stefondiggs

· 4m

I don’t forget or forgive...

The comments on that thread are hilarious and ridiculous.

You have a QB that can't deliver the ball when he's open, and you want to get rid of the receiver?
Have you not figured out why Thielen and Diggs have had dust ups on the sidelines with Cousins?
I wouldn't be surprised if Diggs wanted to play elsewhere, but I can't believe anyone can't see the reason for his frustrations. 
You actually have two of the best wide receivers in the league. You might want to get a guy in here who can deliver the ball.

There is always a potential deal too good to pass up, but...I think a team is admitting they are rebuilding when they start trading away young talent that's under contract. Are we rebuilding? I sure don't think Spielman and Zimmer would say we are. Also, I think Spielman is very proud of the most talented players he has drafted and doesn't want to watch them play elsewhere.

Diggs isn't Percy Harvin, not in terms of attitude or contract, and is far more accomplished. Spielman got almost as much for Harvin as most of the trade suggestions here. No way would he do it for a deal like that - and I hope he doesn't.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FLVike" said: Some people think that a great oline and average QB is the key. I don't. I think it starts with a great QB with an average oline. The Cowboys have a top oline and an average QB. I think if we are keeping our average QB then we need to keep our top WR's, they are definitely worth more than our average QB.

if only we had an average OL,  but unfortunately we have an average QB and a below average OL,  so having above average WR doesnt really compute at this time since when teams have above average DL they make our OL and QB look like chicken shit which makes to above average WR spectators,  which is why they throw tantrums from time to time.

@"FLVike" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"FLVike" said: Some people think that a great oline and average QB is the key. I don't. I think it starts with a great QB with an average oline. The Cowboys have a top oline and an average QB. I think if we are keeping our average QB then we need to keep our top WR's, they are definitely worth more than our average QB.

if only we had an average OL,  but unfortunately we have an average QB and a below average OL,  so having above average WR doesnt really compute at this time since when teams have above average DL they make our OL and QB look like chicken shit which makes to above average WR spectators,  which is why they throw tantrums from time to time.

I didn't see the 49ers going through our oline any faster than the Chiefs oline.

I'm not going to pay much attention to Digg's cryptic tweets. His emotions live at the tips of the spectrum so when people are talking about not wanting him or he's not getting the ball then he's going to post stuff like that. When he's on a hot streak he gives good interviews and his comments are usually positive. It is what it is with him, not much to see here IMO.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/02/07/5-trade-destinations-minnesota-vikings-diggs/

would the bengals go their 2021 first rounder as well as their 2nd or 3rd rounder this year?

@"BarrNone55" said: https://thevikingage.com/2020/02/07/5-trade-destinations-minnesota-vikings-diggs/

I think the most likely is the Broncos. 15th pick, not too high, not too low, and three 3rd rounders. Plenty of cap space, similar offense, young QB, opposite Sutton, Diggs would thrive. And they have an interesting left guard in Dalton Risner. 1st and a 3rd for Diggs. Or maybe Risner and a 2nd.  

Either way, it would take a pretty big haul before I'd support it. And before the Vikings would.

With both Zim and Speilman as lame ducks, I doubt we do anything, but the speculation won't quit.

@"BarrNone55" said: With both Zim and Speilman as lame ducks, I doubt we do anything, but the speculation won't quit.

Agree...but I don't think they'll be lame ducks for long. I could be wrong, but I think they both get extended this spring. Because until they do, they won't be making moves for the long-term betterment of the franchise. Only for getting the most out of '20.

I think Cousins gets extended too, but only after we see what happens in the draft. 

A coach, GM, and QB all hinged on one season... I don't see Diggs going anywhere. Be stupid to rid yourself of your best and most talented WR and a receiver that takes coverage away for others to get open. 

@"FSUVike" said: Of all the Playoff Teams which ones didn't want to establish an effective rushing attack early and often? Kansas City. Maybe Houston or New Orleans? I'd argue that all three wanted to but just didn't have the personnel.

The percentage of money vs. the cap tied up in the passing attack will change by the end of those contracts. Minnesota paid them when they had to bjt those combined deals will be less than the next big QB extension and say retaining 1 good WR.

What you're really complaining about is the lack of innovative ways to involve both Diggs and Thielen. That has been on the OCs. Every team wants to establish the run to make it easier to throw. So it's not the philosophy. 

The problem has been when the run isn't working and Play Action is less of a threat because of it why can't Diggs and Thielen take over? Because D-Flopper and Stefanski didn't have a plan. Well, D-Flop had like 30 plans and could never commit to any of them. Kevin's Plan B was try more Plan A.

Kubiak is not some hotshot kid that thinks he knows it all. He's earned his scars. And he'll have schemes ready to implement to crank up the passing game when the Vikings can't run it.

So why limit what he can do by trading Diggs? Now 32 teams will double Thielen. And can still double either Rudy or Irv. Who's going to take advantage of that? Bisi? Nice kid, more of a possession receiver. Draft Pick? Deep Class but if you end up with another Treadwell you're screwed. Free Agent? Would need to be a Tier 3 guy.

It's not the run-first philosophy or the contracts that are the problem. It's piss poor Pass Protection and highly questionable playcalling. This offseason hopefully fixes the former, Gary Kubiak fixes the latter.

Agree 100%

Oh and if many of us think Diggs is a diva WR look around the league.  He is immature and emotional but I would not call him a Diva.  

We really have a lunch pail mature team for the most part.  I would say of the whole offense Diggs is the only one that has that immature overly emotional edge to him.  I still don't think diva of him.  I actually think we need some of that edge on both sides of the ball.  Of this whole team and our various "stars" or above average players I don't see many, if any, of these guys with that cocky edge.