I think the desire to win the game over road the desire to play Teddy.
As to the proof, I saw it. Multiple people have mentioned it. After the 2nd INT, the offense went tight. They didn't "keep throwing it" Case threw minimal and very safe throws. And the FG? 53 yards. Not really much confidence in Case if we settled for a 53 yard Forbath attempt. We needed to score early in the 4th and we almost abandoned the passing game other than a few short safe throws.
Greed, I just found this on Wikipedia. (looking to see if Case has any playoff experience) He recorded a Rams record near-"perfect game" against the Buccaneers, achieving a 158.0 passer rating by going 14 for 17 for 234 yards and two touchdowns in the last home game in the history of the St. Louis Rams.
Quote: @PapaScott said:
@ greediron said:
@ dadevike said:
I was hoping that Case was going to shut everyone up with the way he played the first 6 or 7 possessions against Washington. He was getting it done in spades. Yes, there were some scary passes. But almost everything he did came out right. Then came the interceptions. And you could feel things start to change. Suddenly, the coaches were doubting Case. Teddy gets up and grabs his helmet. Was he coming in? Shurmur almost stopped calling passes. But Teddy stayed on the bench and Shurmur called just enough pass plays to get one more FG before shutting it down.
So a game that we led in the second half 35-17 (thanks largely to Case) we let Washington back in the game (thanks largely to Case) and hang on to win 38-30.
It's not just the fans who have their doubts about Case. The coaches do, too. And they are caused by Case.
Bingo. The attitude on offense changed. And there was a reason.
The attitude on the offense changed? how? Momentum changed for sure that happens in games. And Teddy had the helmet on most of the game and it means nothing. Again and I really didn't want to turn this into a teddy vs case thread. IF The coaches were looking for an opportunity to put Teddy in would they not do it after the 2nd interception? Why didn't they? What proof is there that the coaches were doubting Case? did they just stick to running the ball? NO they kept throwing the ball and Case led them to a field goal. Why would they even call pass plays if they didn't have trust in Case up by 18 points?
So if throwing 2 INterceptions back to back would not be a reason to pull your starter than what would? The question from reporters should not be "Do you know who your starter is"? it should be "Why did you keep Case in the game after throwing back to back interceptions"? If they doubted Case they would not have chosen him as the back up QB in the preseason, if they doubted Case they would have pulled him after the second interception. If they doubted Case they would not have let him throw another pass.
There isn't any proof they were doubting Case. I pulled the play by play yesterday and it showed down and distance and clock and it showed that they didn't so much run away from Case as much as the did what any team with the lead would do in that situation.... Which led to them winning the ballgame because through the end of the game the team had a 90+% chance to win the game all the way down to the final second. The only thing throwing the ball in that situation would have done is increase their odds of losing.
Quote: @greediron said:
I think the desire to win the game over road the desire to play Teddy.
As to the proof, I saw it. Multiple people have mentioned it. After the 2nd INT, the offense went tight. They didn't "keep throwing it" Case threw minimal and very safe throws. And the FG? 53 yards. Not really much confidence in Case if we settled for a 53 yard Forbath attempt. We needed to score early in the 4th and we almost abandoned the passing game other than a few short safe throws.
Down, distance, clock, and score dictated the play calling. And sure the possibility that their defense was going to gamble against us in that situation had we thrown the ball likely led to them getting more conservative in the 4th with the lead. Pretty standard.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ PapaScott said:
@ silverjoel said:
I don't understand why people think you can't support both QBs.
Keenum has played well, but has some flaws that many believe will show up during games against better competition. I don't know how that is some outlandish take.
Some believe the time away for Bridgewater will be detrimental to his game. Another reasonable take.
Some believe that Bridgewater would do better against the tougher competition than Keenum. Fair take.
Zimmer makes the call. I will not proclaim Zimmer as a terrible coach if he sticks with Keenum. What will you say if Zimmer goes to Bridgewater? Ask yourself that.
I never said I don't support Teddy or Case or any other viking QB not sure who in this thread you are referring to.
What fans believe really doesn't matter. and I raised the question what more do you expect from Case? as a legitimate question to point out that there is really not much if any more you can expect from him, with the bottom line being wins and most important at that. again I don't know where the Outlandish statement comes from. Not me
Bridgewater really has place in this thread as the focus and question is what more do you expect from Case?
same can be said for the the next statement, not about Bridgewater or who should be starting.
Again this is not about Bridgewater as to the answer from me to your question I will be nervous is Zimmer goes to Bridgewater. I don't trust his knee, and ability to escape pressure. Teddy is not starting this week (per zimmer) so if he decides to go with Teddy against the Rams there would be a good reason, but I will still be nervous.
The question still remains What more do you expect from Case? Fair enough and my apologies if I derailed a little. I don't think passer rating is the end all be all, but it's the best I can do. I would like Keenum to perform better that the average QB against that opponent more often then not. How he currently has done in passer rating:
Team - avg QB - Keenum
Pit - 76.5 - 65.9
TB - 98.8 - 142.1
Det - 82.8 - 76.9
Chi - 90.6 - 110.3 (half game)
GB - 95.9 - 78.7
Bal - 69.8 - 67.7
Cle - 104.4 - 88.1
Was - 89.0 - 117.0
That's the best way I can put it in terms of tangible numbers. Only 2.5 games out of 7.5 did Keenum perform better than the average. I would want that at at least 50%.
Edit: And he has to have a good performance against one of the better defenses in the league (even if in a Vikings loss and garbage time doesn't count).
I think I can agree on consistency. Not sure about your numbers, where did they come from? Average QB rating for QB's that have played the opponent that Case played? seems like there is more to that store to get a better picture of performance. Road vs Home comparing QB's etc..
Interesting that Keenum's last performance in St.Louis was a near perfect game He recorded a Rams record near-"perfect game" against the Buccaneers, achieving a 158.0 passer rating by going 14 for 17 for 234 yards and two touchdowns in the last home game in the history of the St. Louis Rams.
Quote: @Mike Olson said:
@ greediron said:
I think the desire to win the game over road the desire to play Teddy.
As to the proof, I saw it. Multiple people have mentioned it. After the 2nd INT, the offense went tight. They didn't "keep throwing it" Case threw minimal and very safe throws. And the FG? 53 yards. Not really much confidence in Case if we settled for a 53 yard Forbath attempt. We needed to score early in the 4th and we almost abandoned the passing game other than a few short safe throws.
Down, distance, clock, and score dictated the play calling. And sure the possibility that their defense was going to gamble against us in that situation had we thrown the ball likely led to them getting more conservative in the 4th with the lead. Pretty standard.
So a few minutes prior with a much larger lead didn't change it, but clinging to an 8 point lead with a quarter to go was the only reason?
If that were the case, we wouldn't have kicked a long FG that was nearly out of range for our FG kicker. We needed to score.
Quote: @PapaScott said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ PapaScott said:
@ silverjoel said:
I don't understand why people think you can't support both QBs.
Keenum has played well, but has some flaws that many believe will show up during games against better competition. I don't know how that is some outlandish take.
Some believe the time away for Bridgewater will be detrimental to his game. Another reasonable take.
Some believe that Bridgewater would do better against the tougher competition than Keenum. Fair take.
Zimmer makes the call. I will not proclaim Zimmer as a terrible coach if he sticks with Keenum. What will you say if Zimmer goes to Bridgewater? Ask yourself that.
I never said I don't support Teddy or Case or any other viking QB not sure who in this thread you are referring to.
What fans believe really doesn't matter. and I raised the question what more do you expect from Case? as a legitimate question to point out that there is really not much if any more you can expect from him, with the bottom line being wins and most important at that. again I don't know where the Outlandish statement comes from. Not me
Bridgewater really has place in this thread as the focus and question is what more do you expect from Case?
same can be said for the the next statement, not about Bridgewater or who should be starting.
Again this is not about Bridgewater as to the answer from me to your question I will be nervous is Zimmer goes to Bridgewater. I don't trust his knee, and ability to escape pressure. Teddy is not starting this week (per zimmer) so if he decides to go with Teddy against the Rams there would be a good reason, but I will still be nervous.
The question still remains What more do you expect from Case? Fair enough and my apologies if I derailed a little. I don't think passer rating is the end all be all, but it's the best I can do. I would like Keenum to perform better that the average QB against that opponent more often then not. How he currently has done in passer rating:
Team - avg QB - Keenum
Pit - 76.5 - 65.9
TB - 98.8 - 142.1
Det - 82.8 - 76.9
Chi - 90.6 - 110.3 (half game)
GB - 95.9 - 78.7
Bal - 69.8 - 67.7
Cle - 104.4 - 88.1
Was - 89.0 - 117.0
That's the best way I can put it in terms of tangible numbers. Only 2.5 games out of 7.5 did Keenum perform better than the average. I would want that at at least 50%.
Edit: And he has to have a good performance against one of the better defenses in the league (even if in a Vikings loss and garbage time doesn't count).
I think I can agree on consistency. Not sure about your numbers, where did they come from? Average QB rating for QB's that have played the opponent that Case played? seems like there is more to that store to get a better picture of performance. Road vs Home comparing QB's etc..
Interesting that Keenum's last performance in St.Louis was a near perfect game He recorded a Rams record near-"perfect game" against the Buccaneers, achieving a 158.0 passer rating by going 14 for 17 for 234 yards and two touchdowns in the last home game in the history of the St. Louis Rams. It's passer rating against. A defensive stat.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/...on/defense
And Bridgewater might hold the record for passer rating in a single game for the Vikings: 154.4 17/20, 231 yards, 4 passing TDs plus a rushing TD.
Quote: @medaille said:
Most of what was already said applies to my concerns. I'm mostly worried about interceptions and him not really playing quality teams. I think against the better teams, he'll try to force the ball too much and give the other team some easy interceptions.
If you look at Case's stats he hasn't threw many interceptions. Last year was his worst year because he got stuck in Jeff Fishers Shit storm. An he threw 11 int's...other years he played he threw 6 int's.
Quote: @silverjoel said:
@ PapaScott said:
@ silverjoel said:
@ PapaScott said:
@ silverjoel said:
I don't understand why people think you can't support both QBs.
Keenum has played well, but has some flaws that many believe will show up during games against better competition. I don't know how that is some outlandish take.
Some believe the time away for Bridgewater will be detrimental to his game. Another reasonable take.
Some believe that Bridgewater would do better against the tougher competition than Keenum. Fair take.
Zimmer makes the call. I will not proclaim Zimmer as a terrible coach if he sticks with Keenum. What will you say if Zimmer goes to Bridgewater? Ask yourself that.
I never said I don't support Teddy or Case or any other viking QB not sure who in this thread you are referring to.
What fans believe really doesn't matter. and I raised the question what more do you expect from Case? as a legitimate question to point out that there is really not much if any more you can expect from him, with the bottom line being wins and most important at that. again I don't know where the Outlandish statement comes from. Not me
Bridgewater really has place in this thread as the focus and question is what more do you expect from Case?
same can be said for the the next statement, not about Bridgewater or who should be starting.
Again this is not about Bridgewater as to the answer from me to your question I will be nervous is Zimmer goes to Bridgewater. I don't trust his knee, and ability to escape pressure. Teddy is not starting this week (per zimmer) so if he decides to go with Teddy against the Rams there would be a good reason, but I will still be nervous.
The question still remains What more do you expect from Case? Fair enough and my apologies if I derailed a little. I don't think passer rating is the end all be all, but it's the best I can do. I would like Keenum to perform better that the average QB against that opponent more often then not. How he currently has done in passer rating:
Team - avg QB - Keenum
Pit - 76.5 - 65.9
TB - 98.8 - 142.1
Det - 82.8 - 76.9
Chi - 90.6 - 110.3 (half game)
GB - 95.9 - 78.7
Bal - 69.8 - 67.7
Cle - 104.4 - 88.1
Was - 89.0 - 117.0
That's the best way I can put it in terms of tangible numbers. Only 2.5 games out of 7.5 did Keenum perform better than the average. I would want that at at least 50%.
Edit: And he has to have a good performance against one of the better defenses in the league (even if in a Vikings loss and garbage time doesn't count).
I think I can agree on consistency. Not sure about your numbers, where did they come from? Average QB rating for QB's that have played the opponent that Case played? seems like there is more to that store to get a better picture of performance. Road vs Home comparing QB's etc..
Interesting that Keenum's last performance in St.Louis was a near perfect game He recorded a Rams record near-"perfect game" against the Buccaneers, achieving a 158.0 passer rating by going 14 for 17 for 234 yards and two touchdowns in the last home game in the history of the St. Louis Rams. It's passer rating against. A defensive stat.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/...on/defense
And Bridgewater might hold the record for passer rating in a single game for the Vikings: 154.4 17/20, 231 yards, 4 passing TDs plus a rushing TD.
That record was against the Bears.
When we are up by 2 scores in the 4th quarter, why and the hell are we throwing anyways?
We naturally should have been trying to kill the clock. Incompletions are free timeouts.
After the 2nd INT, we ended up completing a nice 1st down on 3rd and 4 when Keenum threw a dagger over the middle to move the chains.
There is no reason to line up in shotgun throwing the ball up 2 scores with 15 minutes to play. At some point, we need to kill the clock and the defense needs to make a stand.
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