WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM CASE?
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM CASE?
Should have beat the Lions?
He matched Matthew Staffords game. I’ve looked at the play by play and rewatched the game.
Here’s a recap.
Down 3 going into the 2min warning, Case leads the offense down the field for a Touchdown.
Second half Vikes start with the ball moving the ball well only to have Jerrick Mckinnon and Dalvin cook running the wildcat, fumble the ball.
Next possession 1st play Dalvin Cook rushes 10 yards tears ACL fumbles the ball BACK TO BACK fumbles. This came at the Vikings 28 yard line. Detroit scores a TD and 2pt conversion to go up by 7.
The next offensive series for the Vikings, having just lost Cook. 1st pass play is a deep pass to Treadwell who looks to mis time his jump but replays show he was held down by D. Slay NO Flag! 2nd play is also a pass but no one is open down field so it’s a check down to Murray for 2 yards. 3rd play Pass again and once again Diggs is mugged and falls down pass incomplete. PUNT.
The next offensive series for the Vikes, move the ball to the Detroit redzone and Miss a 39 yard field goal. The play before the field goal attempt. It appears that Theilen is open for a TD. He choose to throw short of the sticks and the pass was broken up.
The Vikings get the ball again this time move the ball down field taking 8 mins and is first and goal at the 8. 2 run plays later they are 3rd and goal at the 3. Keenum is sacked losing 11 yards. 4th down attempt is no good really nothing to blame on this play as the no one is open.
Despite 3 fumbles and a turnover on downs the Vikings would get another opportunity to tie the game with under 2 mins left. Only to lose the ball on a fumble by Adam Theilen.
3 second half turnovers
1 turnover on downs after 1st and goal
In the second half
1 missed field goal
Starting running back, gone for the season in the second half
Back up running back, injured left the game
At least 3 No Calls on PI as stated by the announcers
This was a disappointing loss, especially after coming off a dominate win against TB in which Case had a career best game (at the time) couple that with 2 disappointing losses last year vs the Lions and needing to build up wins for a daunting 2nd half of the season. Certainly hard to pin blame on Case or expect him to do more in light of the above negatives.
He should have beat the Steelers?
So the other loss on Case’s watch was in Pittsburgh I’m not going to take the time to dive into that game, but if I did it would be in light of the unknown surrounding Sam Bradford not sure about who got all the 1st team reps, but I’m thinking it was a late call that Bradford was unable to go. It was game 2 of the season on the road and there was not a lot of people predicting a win regardless of who was at QB.
From what I’ve seen Case has bounced back from every negative play on his part and he is doing everything that is being asked of him. He is having the best performance from a Viking QB since Brett Favre. What more do you expect?
@"Mike Olson" said: Case has guided the offense to 34, 23 and 24 in home games outside of Detroit.Is there anything saying that Case CAN'T be a starter in this league other than past history? I am starting to wonder if the guy could actually be a starter. I'd bet other teams that may need a QB are starting to keep a tab on him as well.
If you watch him play and make his throws, it's pretty decisive and very effective. I don't see any hesitation out of him at all. The floater/INT in Washington was a) a bad decision, b) the type of play a QB makes when he believes in his WRs, c) one of those split second plays that as soon as the ball leaves your fingertips, you wished you had it back. Unfortunately because there are a lot of high round picks around the league, Case probably won't be brought into another team as a starter. He would be brought in to compete, and if I were Case it wouldn't be on a team who has too much invested in his competition. He needs a level playing field to compete, because he isn't a superstar athlete, but he is very effective as we have witnessed.
The first Sb won by the Vikings was in their home stadium with a backup QB - is what will be written and will be the obscure fact in Vikings history.
@"PapaScott" said:I think this will be it for me in this thread.@"silverjoel" said:@"PapaScott" said:This may come across as snarky (text not conversation), but I'm really not trying to be.@"greediron" said:@"PapaScott" said:@"greediron" said: One fumble was on Case, correct?What more do I want? More than 7 points at home. Yes, two of the fumbles were not on him. But 7 points at home. Defense played lights out and we only score 7.
What do I expect? Consistency. But not sure I actually expect that. He is a great backup. Lots of energy, plays well enough to win most games. But avoiding the WTF plays would be a good start.
Just re reading this. When you says plays well enough to win most games. So are their games he has not played well enough to win?
????Obviously.
It's not obvious to me, so that's why I asked.You proposed the question of what more does Keenum need to do. There are plenty of valid points several have brought up that question Keenum (both stats and eye-test). You are dismissing all of them as it's pretty clear your mind is already made up. Why ask the question if you don't want to hear or actually discuss the answers?
I've made a effort to address everything. What am I missing? dismissing?
The only thing I have seen as a response to my question is "perfection" a Superbowl A comeback, with a deficit in the 4th quarter. Win against a better defense. My mind is made up about what?
I asked the question because I truly want to know.
what have I not discussed? or not want to hear?There have been plenty of things pointed out: floating passes, the "WTF" throws and poor games. Keenum didn't play well against the Lions, it's not that surprising as QBs have poor games, but instead of just accepting that it was a poor game you're looking at other reasons for his poor performance (poor maybe a little harsh, more like meh). I showed the passer rating stats that show he has been a bit below average when compared to other QBs facing the same team for most of the games. Instead of being like "interesting" or "I see where you're coming from even if I don't agree" it's "that doesn't really show QB performance because of stuff."
I don't think anyone is really looking for perfection. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks though, it's going to play itself out over the next 4 weeks.
What do I want from Case this week?
A Vikings victory.
BOOM
@"silverjoel" said:I went and looked at the game (lions) do you disagree with my recap? I don't except that he had a poor game HE DID NOT HAVE A POOR PERFORMANCE. As far as the QBR rating I don't exactly know what goes into all the numbers, but I'm assuming it factors in attempts and completions. so if a qb makes a throw and the WR drops it, defender interferes, falls down or other reason and the ball is not caught is that on the QB? is that factored in? So do you see why I don't think the QBR is an end all? ( I just went to look up staffords qbr rating for the game, interestingly Keenum is ranked #3 in abr ratings for the year)I took the time to go back and watch the Lions game watch the plays, the situation. Look for examples of him having poor plays. You can't look at a box score and say "this" happened for example score was 14-7 from the box score you would think that the Lions scored 2 TD's but they didn't they scored one with a 2pt conversion. so we can sit here and put up stats, ratings etc... but it doens't tell the whole story. Ask Zimmer what he thinks of rankings.@"PapaScott" said:I think this will be it for me in this thread.@"silverjoel" said:@"PapaScott" said:This may come across as snarky (text not conversation), but I'm really not trying to be.@"greediron" said:@"PapaScott" said:@"greediron" said: One fumble was on Case, correct?What more do I want? More than 7 points at home. Yes, two of the fumbles were not on him. But 7 points at home. Defense played lights out and we only score 7.
What do I expect? Consistency. But not sure I actually expect that. He is a great backup. Lots of energy, plays well enough to win most games. But avoiding the WTF plays would be a good start.
Just re reading this. When you says plays well enough to win most games. So are their games he has not played well enough to win?
????Obviously.
It's not obvious to me, so that's why I asked.You proposed the question of what more does Keenum need to do. There are plenty of valid points several have brought up that question Keenum (both stats and eye-test). You are dismissing all of them as it's pretty clear your mind is already made up. Why ask the question if you don't want to hear or actually discuss the answers?
I've made a effort to address everything. What am I missing? dismissing?
The only thing I have seen as a response to my question is "perfection" a Superbowl A comeback, with a deficit in the 4th quarter. Win against a better defense. My mind is made up about what?
I asked the question because I truly want to know.
what have I not discussed? or not want to hear?There have been plenty of things pointed out: floating passes, the "WTF" throws and poor games. Keenum didn't play well against the Lions, it's not that surprising as QBs have poor games, but instead of just accepting that it was a poor game you're looking at other reasons for his poor performance (poor maybe a little harsh, more like meh). I showed the passer rating stats that show he has been a bit below average when compared to other QBs facing the same team for most of the games. Instead of being like "interesting" or "I see where you're coming from even if I don't agree" it's "that doesn't really show QB performance because of stuff."
I don't think anyone is really looking for perfection. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks though, it's going to play itself out over the next 4 weeks.
Keenum has a tendency to make high throws I saw plenty of examples in the Lions game, I didn't mention them because on the very next play he makes a great throw and was picking up 1st downs.
I think we could take Case's name out of the question. What do you want from a QB if you take those answers and plug it into The last 8 games you will see that most if not all of your answers are being met.
That stuff happens to all QBs. If you went looking at each play, you could make excuses for everyone of them. Not saying it doesn't affect the score, but given a few exceptions, scoring a mere 7 points at home qualifies as "not playing well enough to win".
Not sure what else there is to say. I haven't seen my answers being met. If you have, that is your take. Mine has been detailed. Too many hide the women and children type of throws. Too many missed throws.
@"PapaScott" said:You're explaining away the bad and only care about the good that supports your belief. I could easily do the opposite. The Vikings have one of the lowest dropped passes in the NFL.@"silverjoel" said:I went and looked at the game (lions) do you disagree with my recap? I don't except that he had a poor game HE DID NOT HAVE A POOR PERFORMANCE. As far as the QBR rating I don't exactly know what goes into all the numbers, but I'm assuming it factors in attempts and completions. so if a qb makes a throw and the WR drops it, defender interferes, falls down or other reason and the ball is not caught is that on the QB? is that factored in? So do you see why I don't think the QBR is an end all? ( I just went to look up staffords qbr rating for the game, interestingly Keenum is ranked #3 in abr ratings for the year)I took the time to go back and watch the Lions game watch the plays, the situation. Look for examples of him having poor plays. You can't look at a box score and say "this" happened for example score was 14-7 from the box score you would think that the Lions scored 2 TD's but they didn't they scored one with a 2pt conversion. so we can sit here and put up stats, ratings etc... but it doens't tell the whole story. Ask Zimmer what he thinks of rankings.@"PapaScott" said:I think this will be it for me in this thread.@"silverjoel" said:@"PapaScott" said:This may come across as snarky (text not conversation), but I'm really not trying to be.@"greediron" said:@"PapaScott" said:@"greediron" said: One fumble was on Case, correct?What more do I want? More than 7 points at home. Yes, two of the fumbles were not on him. But 7 points at home. Defense played lights out and we only score 7.
What do I expect? Consistency. But not sure I actually expect that. He is a great backup. Lots of energy, plays well enough to win most games. But avoiding the WTF plays would be a good start.
Just re reading this. When you says plays well enough to win most games. So are their games he has not played well enough to win?
????Obviously.
It's not obvious to me, so that's why I asked.You proposed the question of what more does Keenum need to do. There are plenty of valid points several have brought up that question Keenum (both stats and eye-test). You are dismissing all of them as it's pretty clear your mind is already made up. Why ask the question if you don't want to hear or actually discuss the answers?
I've made a effort to address everything. What am I missing? dismissing?
The only thing I have seen as a response to my question is "perfection" a Superbowl A comeback, with a deficit in the 4th quarter. Win against a better defense. My mind is made up about what?
I asked the question because I truly want to know.
what have I not discussed? or not want to hear?There have been plenty of things pointed out: floating passes, the "WTF" throws and poor games. Keenum didn't play well against the Lions, it's not that surprising as QBs have poor games, but instead of just accepting that it was a poor game you're looking at other reasons for his poor performance (poor maybe a little harsh, more like meh). I showed the passer rating stats that show he has been a bit below average when compared to other QBs facing the same team for most of the games. Instead of being like "interesting" or "I see where you're coming from even if I don't agree" it's "that doesn't really show QB performance because of stuff."
I don't think anyone is really looking for perfection. It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks though, it's going to play itself out over the next 4 weeks.
Keenum has a tendency to make high throws I saw plenty of examples in the Lions game, I didn't mention them because on the very next play he makes a great throw and was picking up 1st downs.
I think we could take Case's name out of the question. What do you want from a QB if you take those answers and plug it into The last 8 games you will see that most if not all of your answers are being met.http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=232&type=Receiving
I could easily say that the WRs are bailing Keenum out based on the tough catches and low drops. That's cherry picking. I could easily say that 9 of Keenum's TD passes are from 2.5 games with only 2 TD passes for the other 5 games. Again, cherry picking. I could also point out that Keenum has thrown an INT in 4 straight games. I COULD explain away the good and only point out the bad which would be there opposite of what you're doing. It's right in your reply, Keenum missed some throws, but those don't matter because he also made some throws.
I know passer rating isn't the end all be all, I've already stated that. You can look up the formula, it's widely available. Have you watched other teams play the Lions? How do their QBs fair? That's why I used it. It would be expected for a QB to generally have a good game against a bad defense. So, how Keenum fairs against certain teams in passer rating is the tangible support for my position.
I'm trying to view the entire body of work, not just what I want to see. Keenum has played very well in some games and poor in others. I don't think looking for simply more good games than poor games is unreasonable.
@"greediron" said: That stuff happens to all QBs. If you went looking at each play, you could make excuses for everyone of them. Not saying it doesn't affect the score, but given a few exceptions, scoring a mere 7 points at home qualifies as "not playing well enough to win".Not sure what else there is to say. I haven't seen my answers being met. If you have, that is your take. Mine has been detailed. Too many hide the women and children type of throws. Too many missed throws.
It would great to rewatch the game with you. What do you call it when a qb throws a ball to a WR and the Defender holds him making the WR unable to catch the ball. Is that an excuse? It's not me making stuff up, it's clear it's on video, the announcers are even talking about it. I"M not trying to make excuses for Case. I'm trying to point out that what is reasonable to expect from a QB is being met. we all want the vikings to win 7 times CHECK 2 loses SEE I TOLD YOU HE CANT GET IT DONE he had a poor game. It is simply not true. I'm not speaking to the steelers game I have not gone back to review it.
I"m off to watch some High School football State championship game...
Thanks for the discussion
@"silverjoel" said:Name calling. Nice. I already stated what I want to see from Keenum. I showed stats to backup my position and outlined what it would take to be more comfortable with him going into a playoff game. You name call.I'll go out on limb here and say I bet you were hoping for Bradford to come back all season right up until he went to IR (there has only been one game since then). Anybody but Bridgewater, right?
Sliver I'm sorry the name calling hurt your feelings. I would be happy to remove if you like, just ask if you would like it removed.
I'm just happy we're winning...That's all I really care about.
I will admit that I think Sam has the best arm of the 3. But I also think he is the least likely to play again this year.
@"PapaScott" said:@"greediron" said: That stuff happens to all QBs. If you went looking at each play, you could make excuses for everyone of them. Not saying it doesn't affect the score, but given a few exceptions, scoring a mere 7 points at home qualifies as "not playing well enough to win".Not sure what else there is to say. I haven't seen my answers being met. If you have, that is your take. Mine has been detailed. Too many hide the women and children type of throws. Too many missed throws.
It would great to rewatch the game with you. What do you call it when a qb throws a ball to a WR and the Defender holds him making the WR unable to catch the ball. Is that an excuse? It's not me making stuff up, it's clear it's on video, the announcers are even talking about it. I"M not trying to make excuses for Case. I'm trying to point out that what is reasonable to expect from a QB is being met. we all want the vikings to win 7 times CHECK 2 loses SEE I TOLD YOU HE CANT GET IT DONE he had a poor game. It is simply not true. I'm not speaking to the steelers game I have not gone back to review it.
I"m off to watch some High School football State championship game...
Thanks for the discussion
And I disagree. But he is doing enough to win most right now. I just don't think it is sustainable.
@"greediron" said:@"silverjoel" said:Name calling. Nice. I already stated what I want to see from Keenum. I showed stats to backup my position and outlined what it would take to be more comfortable with him going into a playoff game. You name call.I'll go out on limb here and say I bet you were hoping for Bradford to come back all season right up until he went to IR (there has only been one game since then). Anybody but Bridgewater, right?
Some are just better left on ignore. Name calling, dishonesty, just not worth trying to have a conversation.
If your trying to get me mad your a piker =)I have strived all my life to be an honest person and helping others.
For you to keep calling me dishonest is a personal attack...I won't tolerate it!!!
The next time I will flag your post and let the forum handle it.You can call me whatever you want but don't call me dishonest..
My advise to you is enjoy this season we are winning and looking strong.
Dont let this season go to waste by being consumed with anger and hate.Enjoy!!! Have a good day!
@"Norse" said:It's all good.@"silverjoel" said:Name calling. Nice. I already stated what I want to see from Keenum. I showed stats to backup my position and outlined what it would take to be more comfortable with him going into a playoff game. You name call.I'll go out on limb here and say I bet you were hoping for Bradford to come back all season right up until he went to IR (there has only been one game since then). Anybody but Bridgewater, right?
Sliver I'm sorry the name calling hurt your feelings. I would be happy to remove if you like, just ask if you would like it removed.I'm just happy we're winning...That's all I really care about.
I will admit that I think Sam has the best arm of the 3. But I also think he is the least likely to play again this year.
I still see this as a best Case (HAHAH yuck...) scenario. Simply put, we put Keenum in until he starts blowing it. If he does, hopefully it's at home and a Teddy love-fest ensues.
As of right now, we have two good QBs on this roster, and the potential to have a healthy great one come back in time for the playoffs. (Yes, I said great because - injuries aside - I think Bradford has the most talent.) If worst comes to worst and we have to deal with injuries/bad play from both of them we can have Bradford back in January.
... why do I care? I hate this team.
Consistency. Even if it means lower highs, I'd like higher lows.
@"KingBash" said: I still see this as a best Case (HAHAH yuck...) scenario. Simply put, we put Keenum in until he starts blowing it. If he does, hopefully it's at home and a Teddy love-fest ensues.As of right now, we have two good QBs on this roster, and the potential to have a healthy great one come back in time for the playoffs. (Yes, I said great because - injuries aside - I think Bradford has the most talent.) If worst comes to worst and we have to deal with injuries/bad play from both of them we can have Bradford back in January.
... why do I care? I hate this team.
I haven't even considered Bradford. I tend to think he's gone for the year. But what if he is able to come back? I think the most likely scenario is that Case is pulled for Teddy at some point over the next two or three weeks and Teddy plays well. He's not perfect, but he plays well. Do you consider pulling Teddy for Sam? As much as I like Sam Bradford, I don't think you can.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"KingBash" said: I still see this as a best Case (HAHAH yuck...) scenario. Simply put, we put Keenum in until he starts blowing it. If he does, hopefully it's at home and a Teddy love-fest ensues.As of right now, we have two good QBs on this roster, and the potential to have a healthy great one come back in time for the playoffs. (Yes, I said great because - injuries aside - I think Bradford has the most talent.) If worst comes to worst and we have to deal with injuries/bad play from both of them we can have Bradford back in January.
... why do I care? I hate this team.
I haven't even considered Bradford. I tend to think he's gone for the year. But what if he is able to come back? I think the most likely scenario is that Case is pulled for Teddy at some point over the next two or three weeks and Teddy plays well. He's not perfect, but he plays well. Do you consider pulling Teddy for Sam? As much as I like Sam Bradford, I don't think you can.
No, unless the wheels come off just as we're granted a playoff berth. If Bridgewater falls apart, Case is exposed... then we hope Bradford can heal for January.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"KingBash" said: I still see this as a best Case (HAHAH yuck...) scenario. Simply put, we put Keenum in until he starts blowing it. If he does, hopefully it's at home and a Teddy love-fest ensues.As of right now, we have two good QBs on this roster, and the potential to have a healthy great one come back in time for the playoffs. (Yes, I said great because - injuries aside - I think Bradford has the most talent.) If worst comes to worst and we have to deal with injuries/bad play from both of them we can have Bradford back in January.
... why do I care? I hate this team.
I haven't even considered Bradford. I tend to think he's gone for the year. But what if he is able to come back? I think the most likely scenario is that Case is pulled for Teddy at some point over the next two or three weeks and Teddy plays well. He's not perfect, but he plays well. Do you consider pulling Teddy for Sam? As much as I like Sam Bradford, I don't think you can.
I think the most likely scenario is the Vikings beat the Rams at home, and then go to Detroit to put the lions to bed for the division crown.
@"Wetlander" said: What do I want from Case this week? A Vikings victory. BOOM
Thanks, Case!!! Is it too much to ask for another win this Thursday? Pretty please?
BOOM
@"Wetlander" said:@"Wetlander" said: What do I want from Case this week? A Vikings victory. BOOMThanks, Case!!! Is it too much to ask for another win this Thursday? Pretty please?
BOOM
Thank you sir, may I have another???BOOM
Case has been pretty stellar... Keep doing what you're doing...
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