Cousins has regressed?

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

@"pumpf" said: Since last season, I have been beating one drum louder than any others, when it comes to Cousins: THIS is the QB that Zimmer wanted.  He wanted one that wouldn't take chances and was a game-manager.  Cousins is a better thrower (which is different from quarter-backing) than he's shown; but I believe that Zimmer has told him not to take chances.  How many times have we seen KC throw a ball to a receiver that wasn't "wide" open?  Other QBs throw to spots and trust their receivers; Cousins throws to receivers.  Could be the same reason that Sloter was let go: because he was a gun-slinger, not a game-manager.  

Zimmer thinks his defense is good enough to win most games, as long as the QB doesn't turn the ball over.  And that is exactly how this offense has been constructed: to play ball-control football that doesn't turn the ball over.  If we had better pass-protection, we'd have fewer turnovers... but we still wouldn't have a "winning" offense.  Among the problems with this philosophy is the fact that our defense is not as good a Zim thinks it is. Chicago showed what a GREAT defense looks like.  And ours didn't look anything like it.  We couldn't get the Bears' offense off of the field.  That's not the offenses' fault.  I'm not making excuses for the offense when I say this: but how often does an offense get, like, 3 possessions in an entire half?  We moved the ball on one of them (and then Diggs fumbled the ball).  

I'm not saying we could've / would've / should've won the game (because Chicago was the better team); but I put this more on Zim and his failed philosophy (and his directives toward the offense- and Cousins in particular) than on Cousins, himself.  Chicago might be able to win with their defense... but they didn't go out and get a game-manager for QB.  Granted, Mitch isn't very good... but Daniels didn't play like a guy who was afraid to lose the game for his team.  Cousins did.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

i didnt see it that way,  I am not sure if I will have the stomach to watch the game again, but there were quite a few occasions where his protection wasnt there and he wasnt even through his read progressions yet.

@"Vikergirl" said: He is who we thought he is.

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: He is who we thought he is.

AND NOW WE'RE ON THE HOOK!

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

i didnt see it that way,  I am not sure if I will have the stomach to watch the game again, but there were quite a few occasions where his protection wasnt there and he wasnt even through his read progressions yet.

I don't have a way of rewatching, or the desire to either.  But I do remember plenty of short drops where you expect the ball out in a hurry but it never came out. 

We were told Sloter couldn't hang with the starters or set the o in practice consistently---maybe it runs deeper and his exit is more a case kenanum scenario.  Cutting him and hanging on to that walking dead extra mannion might be a delayed tactic by zim.  If KC keeps up this stinkfest fans might be hankering for the backup---but wen you look over at bleeech sean not so much

@"StickyBun" said: He never looked as bad last year as he does this year. I really don't know what to make of it. His lack of mobility is such a hinderance sometimes. The offensive line is still lacking in pass protection. So many good athletes on D today I think an important part of a modern day NFL QB is escapability. A few guys like Brees, Brady and Rivers aren't mobile but they are Hall of Famers. They are franchise guys that know what to do when protections breaks down and you won't see their likes again in the NFL. The new guard is mobile almost to a man.

Not even halfway thru his contract and the team is stuck. He had guys open downfield and either didn't see them or couldn't hit them.

It all starts with keeping 4Wrs on the 53, he doesn't want to throw the ball, he wants to run it.  So he hangs his qb out to dry.

Why get a QB if you aren't going to use him effectively? They can't always run. They can't be one dimensional and win. The OL is still a work in progress. And it doesn't matter how many receivers they have if the plan is primarily to run. 

Somewhere, Denny Green is shaking his head...

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

This team is on it's 4th OC and system in 4 years.Last year, with Cook out 6 of the first 8 weeks, the offense was still very productive and Thielen was setting records.But noooo, Zimmer wanted to run the dinosaur offense.So they fire JDF, who is now helping Minshew in Jacksonville, and promote Stefanski who has to be a "yes" man. Is it any wonder the skill players are upset?They are just high paid decoys.Cousins has thrown 99 passes in 4 games and people complain if he misses a deep one that has a 50% or less chance of success. The Vikings should use Cook like the Steelers used Bell and throw him more passes.They should never have him in to block because he is terrible at pass pro.He got blasted on the one play where Kirk fumbled.  That still is on Kirk but very very few posters mention Cook's whiff. Maybe Cousins is not the answer?  OK. But changing the OC and system every year is worse.

Cook is leading the Vikings with 15 receptions.  That's 23.4% of the Vikings' completions (15/64).  How much more do you want?

IDK.  His first 5 carries were 2 yards, 1 yard, no gain, no gain, and 1 yard.  His next 2 carries are 4 and 3 yards.
That was the first two drives.
I would like to see them recognize that they are getting whupped up front.
The next time they play the Bears I would not call any runs at the start of the game.
It would be short passes, misdirection type plays, or anything to get 3 to 4 yards a play.
Then, maybe I try a run or two.
When Hicks gets back they are going to be in a world of hurt.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

@"SFVikeFan" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Oh I agree to an extent, but Russell Wilson has an O-line worse than ours yet still makes throws and scores points.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

@"HappyViking" said: He looked just like the KC that played the Bears last season.  No better, no worse.

@"HappyViking" said:
He looked just like the KC that played the Bears last season.  No better, no worse.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

Even if true how do you respond to Zimmer saying he needs to hold it longer?  In that game vs that defense?

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"StickyBun" said: He never looked as bad last year as he does this year. I really don't know what to make of it. His lack of mobility is such a hinderance sometimes. The offensive line is still lacking in pass protection. So many good athletes on D today I think an important part of a modern day NFL QB is escapability. A few guys like Brees, Brady and Rivers aren't mobile but they are Hall of Famers. They are franchise guys that know what to do when protections breaks down and you won't see their likes again in the NFL. The new guard is mobile almost to a man.

Not even halfway thru his contract and the team is stuck. He had guys open downfield and either didn't see them or couldn't hit them.

I'm not a huge cousins fan, but that's all on Zimmer.

It all starts with keeping 4Wrs on the 53, he doesn't want to throw the ball, he wants to run it.  So he hangs his qb out to dry.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikeFan" said: O-line is a separate issue, separate topic.

When Cousins had a clean pocket, clear view, he overshot Thielen.  I can think of other plays where the pocket was clean and he ran out of it.  

For $84 million, when you have a clean pocket and a guy open, those are the throws I expect him to hit.

I dont think so,  a shit OL creates shit QB play.  just because the beatings are constant doenst mean they dont have a negative affect on nearly every play.  That OL needs to improve by a long ways before KC should be expected to be comfortable in any pocket they create.

Kirk was responsible for most of his own beatings yesterday.  I remember Reiff getting beat by Mack once and Elf getting tossed aside on a swim.  Other than that, most of the sacks were Cousins holding the ball too long.  Often on 3 step drops.

Even if true how do you respond to Zimmer saying he needs to hold it longer?  In that game vs that defense?

I am now in the camp (after years of defending both) that Zimmer and Speilman need to go.