Should the Vikings take a QB in the first 4 rounds?

@"JimmyinSD" said: I dont think the decision to go QB in the middle part of the draft is made by how they feel about Cousins,  this should be dictated by how they feel about Sloter IMO... I the coaches dont think our project QB is going to pan out... they need to get a new project QB in the mix now.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

@"pumpf" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

I'm as dumb about these things as the next guy... but I've got an opinion and a keybso here goes:
I blame Zimmer.  I have scant evidence to prove it, but I believe he tells his QBs to "not make mistakes"- and he drills that into them so hard (that's what she said) that they are afraid to throw to any receiver beyond the LOS who *might* be covered.  Cousins got worse as the year went on.  Why is that?  I think it's that- when he made some mistakes (which he did)- he got reprimanded for it by Zimmer.  Cousins, being a "dutiful" person, did what he was told: he stopped taking chances.  

Of course, Zimmer would never admit that... just like he'd never admit that his big mouth is hurting our kickers (who are not mentally tough enough to be treated the way they are).  He gets all his toys for his defense... and then expects his OC / QB to make beef wellington out of cow pies.  Take the muzzle off of Cousins, let him do his thing.  And THEN- if he fails- you've got one year to get his replacement ready.

@"Ralphie" said:

@"HappyViking" said:

@"Ralphie" said: I just wish elite QB's came with a flashing light on their heads that would make them easier to identify come scouting, combine, pro-days, etc. It's easy to say team X needs to get a QB years ago.  True, but looking at the draft classes for the past decade or so, how many "elite" QB's were there?  By definition elite means rare.  For every Rodgers how many Couch's, Manziel's, Carr's, Russell's, Harrington's, et al have come...stunk it up...and left the stage.  I know everybody wants the next Mahomes and he'll probably have a good NFL career, but I don't think the Patriots were calling Brady elite when they drafted him.  In Eli's case he's only won 2 Super Bowls so he should have been kicked to the curb years ago? That the Vikes, even with Cousins entering year 2 of his deal, needs to prepare for "that day" is undeniable.  But many QB's become very good NFL QB's by looking, listening and preparing for the day when they hand over the clipboard for the pigskin.  Day one starters are great and exciting...but very, very, very rare.  Even Rodgers had to pay his dues before he hit the field.  Maybe Sloter is that guy...maybe not.  Thinking some guy in the 3rd round this year is going to be Johnny U might be a bit premature.  Ask Josh Rosen.

I thought Rick finally had "his" guy when we drafted Teddy.  What if the Vikes would've signed Teddy instead of spending $30Mil on Cousins?  We were 8-7-1 last season with the "second best QB in Viking's history" stats Cousins gave us.  I wonder if the win/loss record would've been much different with Teddy at Qb ?  I do know our cap situation would be a hell of a lot better with Teddy at the helm, and we could still be looking for the next young QB to take over. 

Did the Vikings spend all this money on Cousins only to find out he's not worth it after one season?  It's quite possible, and RS had to be held accountable.

Happy, I was one of the many fans who thought that fateful August day in 2016 was dunbar for Teddy.  That injury was something no GM could bank on.  The die was cast and the team moved on with several other opting in these past 2 1/2 years that now seems infinitely longer.
Could Teddy have replicated Kirk's record?  Maybe, but hindsight is always clearer...and cheaper.  But just as Kirk was getting pounded thanks to our porous OL, it's just as likely Teddy could be in a wheelchair now.

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"pumpf" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

I'm as dumb about these things as the next guy... but I've got an opinion and a keybso here goes:
I blame Zimmer.  I have scant evidence to prove it, but I believe he tells his QBs to "not make mistakes"- and he drills that into them so hard (that's what she said) that they are afraid to throw to any receiver beyond the LOS who *might* be covered.  Cousins got worse as the year went on.  Why is that?  I think it's that- when he made some mistakes (which he did)- he got reprimanded for it by Zimmer.  Cousins, being a "dutiful" person, did what he was told: he stopped taking chances.  

Of course, Zimmer would never admit that... just like he'd never admit that his big mouth is hurting our kickers (who are not mentally tough enough to be treated the way they are).  He gets all his toys for his defense... and then expects his OC / QB to make beef wellington out of cow pies.  Take the muzzle off of Cousins, let him do his thing.  And THEN- if he fails- you've got one year to get his replacement ready.

My gut says there's absolutely some truth in this...One of Zimmer's blind spots has been how poorly the coaching, strategy and staff has been on the offensive side of the ball. 

With Kubiak and crew in Eagan? I think there's finally enough "kahuna's and cred" to tell Mike to bug off and let us handle this side of things. In a respectful manner of course. 

I'd love for us to trade for Rosen or take a QB, but I do not think MN will do it.
RS and Zim know (or should know) this year is make or break. They will do everything they can to be good THIS year, and I don't blame them for that one bit. Plus, like someone already said, any potential new GM/Coach combo will want their own QB most likely. Not a 3rd rounder who the old regime was grooming.
I also still have faith that with a better O-line, KC can lead us to the playoffs and beyond.

So while I'd be excited to see us bring in a younger, more mobile QB, I don't see it happening.

@"medaille" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I dont think the decision to go QB in the middle part of the draft is made by how they feel about Cousins,  this should be dictated by how they feel about Sloter IMO... I the coaches dont think our project QB is going to pan out... they need to get a new project QB in the mix now.

Another option is instead of having a shitty backup like Siemian, have two development guys going at the same time.

@"medaille" said:

@"ArizonaViking" said: The Vikings have got more pressing needs this year than a quarterback.  Why bring in a rookie quarterback just to watch him get killed on the field?

?  You bring in a rookie QB, so he can learn behind Cousins and take over when he's ready.  No one would bring in a rookie QB to start day 1.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"pumpf" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

I'm as dumb about these things as the next guy... but I've got an opinion and a keybso here goes:
I blame Zimmer.  I have scant evidence to prove it, but I believe he tells his QBs to "not make mistakes"- and he drills that into them so hard (that's what she said) that they are afraid to throw to any receiver beyond the LOS who *might* be covered.  Cousins got worse as the year went on.  Why is that?  I think it's that- when he made some mistakes (which he did)- he got reprimanded for it by Zimmer.  Cousins, being a "dutiful" person, did what he was told: he stopped taking chances.  

Of course, Zimmer would never admit that... just like he'd never admit that his big mouth is hurting our kickers (who are not mentally tough enough to be treated the way they are).  He gets all his toys for his defense... and then expects his OC / QB to make beef wellington out of cow pies.  Take the muzzle off of Cousins, let him do his thing.  And THEN- if he fails- you've got one year to get his replacement ready.

My gut says there's absolutely some truth in this...One of Zimmer's blind spots has been how poorly the coaching, strategy and staff has been on the offensive side of the ball. 

With Kubiak and crew in Eagan? I think there's finally enough "kahuna's and cred" to tell Mike to bug off and let us handle this side of things. In a respectful manner of course. 

Re the OP:

One thing Spielman does well is pick defensive players. Draft picks or free agents, more have been good.

A thing he doesn't do so well: pick offensive players. A few nice ones, but heavily outweighed by duds.

But the thing he does worst, utterly abysmally?? Pick quarterbacks. All failures, except s generous grade of "incomplete" for Bridgewater and TBD for Cousins . But if you want to draft Cousins' replacement, he must be a fail too.

And you want Spielman to pick our QB of the future??

@"Jor-El" said:   Didn't Norv Turner have the kahunas or whatever to tell Mike to bug off? That works until we hit a two-game losing streak and Zimmer starts looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism from his defense - then somebody gets punched in the eye. Kubiak better hope there are plenty of kickers to blame before him.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL. 

@"Caactorvike" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that?  What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that?  It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"Caactorvike" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

Geoff--"internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought.". Thats a very intriguing sentence. Can you tell me more about that?  What were they hoping for?--and how has Cousins not delivered that?  It sounds like you are talking about a locker room presence, but tell me more.

Obviously Geoff knows more than me about the internal thinking of the Vikings but I would have to believe changing coordinators after 13 weeks is not good for anyone on the offense.
And Zimmer crying about running the ball did not help either.  IMHO.
I know he wants balance and wants things the way he wants them but they were doing very good early on.
Thielen was setting records with all those consecutive games with 100 plus yards.
I actually thought JDF was doing very good considering Cook was out for 6 of the first 8 games and Murray is not exactly a power back even though he is as big as most linebackers.
Continuity may be a good thing.

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I am not as convinced that cousins won't be resigned.  Last seasons oline issues were not on him so imo until that is resolved it's really up in the air.  I will say if they truly dont think Sloter has a future beyond scout team reps then they need to start thinking QB in even the 2nd or 3rd rounds so if they do move on from KC they have a young guy with a couple years of mentoring under his belt ready to step in instead of these journeyman retreads they try to squeeze a year out of here and there.

As of today if the Vikings had to make a decision on Cousins I would put my money on the front office opting to not resign him. Internally he hasn't been exactly what they thought. Doesn't mean that year two won't be better and change the narrative. 

Agreed and hence the reason I started this thread. But I'll go one step further: I think its 100 percent solidified after this season in their minds (the front office) that Cousins won't be resigned. A Cousins-style QB is not the future of the NFL. 

I would disagree with the latter portion of your post. Cousins can absolutely win in this league. He has all the arm talent he needs to get the job done. Brady, Brees, Goff, and others seem to get the job done just fine in this "modern NFL". 

Kirk only has 2 years left on the deal. I think what Guru is saying about the Vikings position right now (theoretically) on resigning him is very important because a rookie will have 4 years on a contract, and 5 if we go extreme in the 1st round.

That's 2 or 3 years of potentially starting after marinating for 2 years. That's a great situation for everyone involved if you can find the right player...

It's about preparing for what's ahead on the path we've chosen, not picking a new one. It's not about jettisoning Cousins and eating dead money asap - the writing is on the wall that he isn't getting another 3 year - $80+ million dollar extension when this current one is up.

@"medaille" said:

@"Jor-El" said:   Didn't Norv Turner have the kahunas or whatever to tell Mike to bug off? That works until we hit a two-game losing streak and Zimmer starts looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism from his defense - then somebody gets punched in the eye. Kubiak better hope there are plenty of kickers to blame before him.

I don't remember this.  Do you have a link or any more information about the context surrounding your statement?