Let the excuses begin

@"silverjoel" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: @silverjoel you're right...Cousins had all day to throw and Cook had gaping holes to run through...

Is there any specific reason you're going to exremes?

Team rushing yards per attempt
2017 - 3.9
2018 - 4.2

I will never understand why some people trash the team to defend "their" player.2018 Cousins was pressured at 37%.
2017 Keenum was pressured at 39%. 
2016 Bradford was pressured at 33%. 
2015 Bridgewater was pressured at 46%.

The 2 QBs that get the most excesses from above also had the lowest pressure rate.  The other 2, the team was the reason for success.  Let's get back to that, winning and blaming the QB.

Before I worry about the Vikings, I would like to hear the excuses for why some folks ONLY post on this site after a Viking loss.  For 2 weeks... not a peep.  Now you can't shut 'em up.  It's almost like they want the team to lose, JUST so they can tell everyone how right they've been.

@"pumpf" said: Before I worry about the Vikings, I would like to hear the excuses for why some folks ONLY post on this site after a Viking loss.  For 2 weeks... not a peep.  Now you can't shut 'em up.  It's almost like they want the team to lose, JUST so they can tell everyone how right they've been.

I would like to hear WHY number of posts or WHEN someone posts somehow NEGATES that poster's OPINION? Do tell.

So, according to YOU,  30, 40, or 50 years of dedicated fandom to these chronic fucking losers doesn't matter because our number of posts doesn't please YOU??!!! How fucking arrogant is THAT opinion!

There are MORE than enough Blind Allegiance fans posting on this site. You know, the one's that actually track when and how much another fan posts on a fanboard? Or whether or not that poster's OPINION matches THEIRS? If that's how you "rate" a fellow fan, you're pathetic. Just because YOU CHOOSE to post on this site religiously does not mean EVERY fan needs to do so. Got it?

NO "excuse" is necessary for longtime fans expressing their dissatisfaction with yet ANOTHER under-performing Viking Squad, REGARDLESS of how often or infrequent they may CHOOSE to post on this site. 

I'm actually looking forward to the inevitable, endless posts of how we should "trust" the process of the current regime this offseason, because, as we all know, changing NOTHING really makes a difference!

Happy New Year to ya!

Please let me know if this post "counts", or if I'm just another "bad" fan (since 1968). Thanks in advance for clarifying my status..,..I'd really hate to continue my life long fandom without YOUR approval.

@"njvike" said:

@"pumpf" said: Before I worry about the Vikings, I would like to hear the excuses for why some folks ONLY post on this site after a Viking loss.  For 2 weeks... not a peep.  Now you can't shut 'em up.  It's almost like they want the team to lose, JUST so they can tell everyone how right they've been.

LOL! Congrats on one of the STUPIDEST posts of the year! (although, it's just day 1 out of 365, you'll no doubt be surpassed!)

I would like to hear WHY number of posts or WHEN someone posts somehow NEGATES that poster's OPINION? Do tell.

So, according to YOU,  30, 40, or 50 years of dedicated fandom to these chronic fucking losers doesn't matter because our number of posts doesn't please YOU??!!! How fucking arrogant is THAT opinion!

There are MORE than enough Blind Allegiance fans posting on this site. You know, the one's that actually track when and how much another fan posts on a fanboard? Or whether or not that poster's OPINION matches THEIRS? If that's how you "rate" a fellow fan, you're pathetic. Just because YOU CHOOSE to post on this site religiously does not mean EVERY fan needs to do so. Got it?

NO "excuse" is necessary for longtime fans expressing their dissatisfaction with yet ANOTHER under-performing Viking Squad, REGARDLESS of how often or infrequent they may CHOOSE to post on this site. 

I'm actually looking forward to the inevitable, endless posts of how we should "trust" the process of the current regime this offseason, because, as we all know, changing NOTHING really makes a difference!

Happy New Year to ya!

Please let me know if this post "counts", or if I'm just another "bad" fan (since 1968). Thanks in advance for clarifying my status..,..I'd really hate to continue my life long fandom without YOUR approval.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"StickyBun" said: No excuses. The offensive line is a joke and the D-line does not match up well with Chicago, but can anyone with a straight face tell you the Bears aren't the dominate team in the NFCN and look to be for the foreseeable future? They bitch slapped Minnesota around twice.

Agreed. PA said we will probably be picked to finish 3rd in the NFCN next season and I can't argue with that. In a draft that is stacked with defense this year, how are we going to fix our offensive line?

There's plenty of guys you can take in the first or second and get a Day 1 Starter. Jonah Williams-OT-Bama (probably goes Top 10). Jawaan Taylor-OT-Gators Greg Little-OT-Ole Miss or Mississippi State, has a rep of not playing to his potential Dalton Risner-OT-K-State Yodny Cajuste-OT-WVU David Edwards-OT-Wisconsin  

Williams and maybe Taylor will be long gone by the 18th pick but the rest will almost certainly be available and I've seen every one of them as a 1st Round pick in a mock. Most will start off at Guard or RT.

So let's say the Vikings pick Risner, for example. He starts at RG and in two years moves to RT if O'Neil is ready to replace Reiff.

They overpay for Roger Saffold to lock down LG for a few years and bring Easton back as a swing interior backing up all 3 spots.

You can add one of the Sooner kids like Ford or Powers in the 3rd or one of the Badger Guards in the 2nd and now you've got a restocked unit that is young.

Shit, I'd actually take Christian Wilkins in the 1st to replace Richardson (and eventually Joseph), trade back into the 1st or high 2nd and snag whichever OT that falls AND take a Guard in the 3rd. Plus get Saffold.  That helps both Lines.

But lets please not say there's no fixes for the O-Line in the Draft just because it could be a historic one for DTs.

@"StickyBun" said:

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: @silverjoel you're right...Cousins had all day to throw and Cook had gaping holes to run through...

Is there any specific reason you're going to exremes?

Team rushing yards per attempt
2017 - 3.9
2018 - 4.2

I will never understand why some people trash the team to defend "their" player.2018 Cousins was pressured at 37%.
2017 Keenum was pressured at 39%. 
2016 Bradford was pressured at 33%. 
2015 Bridgewater was pressured at 46%.

The 2 QBs that get the most excesses from above also had the lowest pressure rate.  The other 2, the team was the reason for success.  Let's get back to that, winning and blaming the QB.

What is the usefulness of comparing different seasons?
Were the teams the same?
Were the opponents the same and did they have the same personnel.
It is ridiculous to make these comparisons.

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

@"StickyBun" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

What?

Dude, sometimes when you try SO hard to be a contrarian, you lose credibility. If you can't acknowledge the O-line is garbage, there's really nothing I have to discuss with you. But keep playin' your tune, man. 

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

What?

Dude, sometimes when you try SO hard to be a contrarian, you lose credibility. If you can't acknowledge the O-line is garbage, there's really nothing I have to discuss with you. But keep playin' your tune, man. 

Ok.  Let's try a more simple version, but I'm not looking up the actual numbers because it's pointless.

Cousins overall passer rating was like 99.  His passer rating under pressure was like 83.  That would mean that with no pressure (most of the time), his passer rating was higher than 99.  The under pressure passer rating brings down the overall rating.  It's basic math. I would guess that without pressure his passer rating was like 108 (more overall passes without pressure, so the difference is less and a difference of about 16 for with pressure and I'd bet about 9 without pressure).  The average of no pressure and pressure brings it to about 99.  The same principals apply during blitzes (some blitzes have pressure and some don't).  Plus, blitz pickup isn't necessarily on the OL.

Do you have any actual analysis of the OL, or just what PFF allowed you to see without paying?  Do you believe all PFF ratings/rankings, or just the ones you want?

The OL wasn't good, but it's also not this historically bad line that gets thrown around.  Teams can win with a line like this, hell, the Vikings did last year and 2015.  Houston, Dallas and Seattle did this year.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

What?

Dude, sometimes when you try SO hard to be a contrarian, you lose credibility. If you can't acknowledge the O-line is garbage, there's really nothing I have to discuss with you. But keep playin' your tune, man. 

Ok.  Let's try a more simple version, but I'm not looking up the actual numbers because it's pointless.

Cousins overall passer rating was like 99.  His passer rating under pressure was like 83.  That would mean that with no pressure (most of the time), his passer rating was higher than 99.  The under pressure passer rating brings down the overall rating.  It's basic math. I would guess that without pressure his passer rating was like 108 (more overall passes without pressure, so the difference is less and a difference of about 16 for with pressure and I'd bet about 9 without pressure).  The average of no pressure and pressure brings it to about 99.  The same principals apply during blitzes (some blitzes have pressure and some don't).  Plus, blitz pickup isn't necessarily on the OL.

Do you have any actual analysis of the OL, or just what PFF allowed you to see without paying?  Do you believe all PFF ratings/rankings, or just the ones you want?

The OL wasn't good, but it's also not this historically bad line that gets thrown around.  Teams can win with a line like this, hell, the Vikings did last year and 2015.  Houston, Dallas and Seattle did this year.

Seriously? Did you watch the PFF video where they graded the Line as 30th out of 32 while listing Remmers and Compton as among the worst Guards in the League? That same video where they point put that Centers don't give up many individual pressures as they're usually helping a Guard double team? Rodney Hudson in Oakland gave up 5 pressures all season. Elf gave up 33 or some similarly outsized number.

Or how they discussed facts like Keenum having both a better O-Line and Rushing Game in Denver and still fell off a cliff this year, especially in 4th Quarters of tight games?

Of ciurse you didn't. Those are just useless stats being manipulated to paint journeyman QB Case Keenum in a bad light.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if PFF had put out a stats-filled video showing why Keenum was and is the better QB you'd be all over it.

I'm not sold on Cousins. Period. I am sold on moving on from Case. You never will be and every single freaking one of us has heard you say it time and time again. When's enough enough?

@"silverjoel" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: @silverjoel you're right...Cousins had all day to throw and Cook had gaping holes to run through...

Is there any specific reason you're going to exremes?

Team rushing yards per attempt
2017 - 3.9
2018 - 4.2

I will never understand why some people trash the team to defend "their" player.2018 Cousins was pressured at 37%.
2017 Keenum was pressured at 39%. 
2016 Bradford was pressured at 33%. 
2015 Bridgewater was pressured at 46%.

The 2 QBs that get the most excesses from above also had the lowest pressure rate.  The other 2, the team was the reason for success.  Let's get back to that, winning and blaming the QB.

What is the usefulness of comparing different seasons?
Were the teams the same?
Were the opponents the same and did they have the same personnel.
It is ridiculous to make these comparisons.

By your criteria, you can't compare anything.  Other QBs in the same season are on different teams, different personnel, different schemes, different schedules.  So, the only way would be to compare Cousins to Siemian and Sloter and even that doesn't really work because they don't play and can't run the same play in the same situation.

But wait, you were a big proponent of getting Cousins based off his raw numbers on another team in other years.  Isn't that ridiculous?  Haven't you bashed Keenum who's on a different team with different personnel and a different schedule?  How does that meet your criteria?

Maybe you want to dismiss the comparison because it doesn't say what you want it to say.

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

@"TBro" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"StickyBun" said: No excuses. The offensive line is a joke and the D-line does not match up well with Chicago, but can anyone with a straight face tell you the Bears aren't the dominate team in the NFCN and look to be for the foreseeable future? They bitch slapped Minnesota around twice.

Agreed. PA said we will probably be picked to finish 3rd in the NFCN next season and I can't argue with that. In a draft that is stacked with defense this year, how are we going to fix our offensive line?

There's plenty of guys you can take in the first or second and get a Day 1 Starter. Jonah Williams-OT-Bama (probably goes Top 10). Jawaan Taylor-OT-Gators Greg Little-OT-Ole Miss or Mississippi State, has a rep of not playing to his potential Dalton Risner-OT-K-State Yodny Cajuste-OT-WVU David Edwards-OT-Wisconsin  

Williams and maybe Taylor will be long gone by the 18th pick but the rest will almost certainly be available and I've seen every one of them as a 1st Round pick in a mock. Most will start off at Guard or RT.

So let's say the Vikings pick Risner, for example. He starts at RG and in two years moves to RT if O'Neil is ready to replace Reiff.

They overpay for Roger Saffold to lock down LG for a few years and bring Easton back as a swing interior backing up all 3 spots.

You can add one of the Sooner kids like Ford or Powers in the 3rd or one of the Badger Guards in the 2nd and now you've got a restocked unit that is young.

Shit, I'd actually take Christian Wilkins in the 1st to replace Richardson (and eventually Joseph), trade back into the 1st or high 2nd and snag whichever OT that falls AND take a Guard in the 3rd. Plus get Saffold.  That helps both Lines.

But lets please not say there's no fixes for the O-Line in the Draft just because it could be a historic one for DTs.

If we had a proven scouting staff and coaches with a great track record of finding and developing 2nd and 3rd day Offensive lineman, I might share your optimism. The fact is you are entrusting the Oline rebuild project in the hands of the same people that tried to convince everyone that Remmers would be better for us moving to Right Guard after he totally sucked filling in at LG in the playoffs. The same staff that though Hill could be a starting RT in this league. A team that gave up a 6th round pick for a Center/Guard that Shurmur didn't want and could never regain a starting position on the line when Elflein returned to the lineup and the interior of our OLine was getting blown up every week. We let our 6th round Guard get plucked off the practice squad only to find success as the potential long term starting LG for the Arizona Cardinals but he wasn't good enough to beat out Remmers and Compton?  I could go on, but that will take up a lot more time and space on this thread. In a draft that isn't loaded with OLine talent like last year, your selections better be spot on. The room for error is much smaller and I don't have any faith or trust in this Leadership Group to get that figured out in one offseason. I'm not arguing with you about the prospects you mentioned. I know that you follow the draft and spend time researching players but Zimmer and Spielman have made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to the OLine and I think it ultimately gets them fired after the lame duck year of their contracts expire in 2019. 

Is it bad if Clemmings and Beavers sound a little bit like upgrades right now?  :s

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"BarrNone55" said: @silverjoel you're right...Cousins had all day to throw and Cook had gaping holes to run through...

Is there any specific reason you're going to exremes?

Team rushing yards per attempt
2017 - 3.9
2018 - 4.2

I will never understand why some people trash the team to defend "their" player.2018 Cousins was pressured at 37%.
2017 Keenum was pressured at 39%. 
2016 Bradford was pressured at 33%. 
2015 Bridgewater was pressured at 46%.

The 2 QBs that get the most excesses from above also had the lowest pressure rate.  The other 2, the team was the reason for success.  Let's get back to that, winning and blaming the QB.

What is the usefulness of comparing different seasons?
Were the teams the same?
Were the opponents the same and did they have the same personnel.
It is ridiculous to make these comparisons.

By your criteria, you can't compare anything.  Other QBs in the same season are on different teams, different personnel, different schemes, different schedules.  So, the only way would be to compare Cousins to Siemian and Sloter and even that doesn't really work because they don't play and can't run the same play in the same situation.

But wait, you were a big proponent of getting Cousins based off his raw numbers on another team in other years.  Isn't that ridiculous?  Haven't you bashed Keenum who's on a different team with different personnel and a different schedule?  How does that meet your criteria?

Maybe you want to dismiss the comparison because it doesn't say what you want it to say.

Yes, I was a proponent of Cousins based on what he did in his first 3 years with the Redskins.  His durability and production stood out.
I never spoke of the nerd stat pressure rate and really do not even know where to find it to be honest.  I only looked at what he had done those 3 years in Washington.
Is that the same comparison being made now?   I do not think it is. 

I have not bashed Keenum so not sure where you got that from.  Once they leave here I pretty much do not care.
I am not trying to defend Cousins because I do not believe he needs to be defended.

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"silverjoel" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

Let's use some critical thinking.  If Cousins' passer rating was higher during blitzes (may or may not have had pressure) than with overall pressure (mid 80s passer rating), doesn't that mean the protction held even better on blitzes?

Nah, let's just blindly blame the nameless faceless OL.  

Since I do not know where these stats come from or who compiles them I can only ask one question here because I am easily confused.
How can a QB get blitzed and that translates to "may or may not have had pressure"?
Isn't getting blitzed the definition of getting pressure?

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"TBro" said:

@"StickyBun" said: No excuses. The offensive line is a joke and the D-line does not match up well with Chicago, but can anyone with a straight face tell you the Bears aren't the dominate team in the NFCN and look to be for the foreseeable future? They bitch slapped Minnesota around twice.

Agreed. PA said we will probably be picked to finish 3rd in the NFCN next season and I can't argue with that. In a draft that is stacked with defense this year, how are we going to fix our offensive line?

There's plenty of guys you can take in the first or second and get a Day 1 Starter. Jonah Williams-OT-Bama (probably goes Top 10). Jawaan Taylor-OT-Gators Greg Little-OT-Ole Miss or Mississippi State, has a rep of not playing to his potential Dalton Risner-OT-K-State Yodny Cajuste-OT-WVU David Edwards-OT-Wisconsin  

Williams and maybe Taylor will be long gone by the 18th pick but the rest will almost certainly be available and I've seen every one of them as a 1st Round pick in a mock. Most will start off at Guard or RT.

So let's say the Vikings pick Risner, for example. He starts at RG and in two years moves to RT if O'Neil is ready to replace Reiff.

They overpay for Roger Saffold to lock down LG for a few years and bring Easton back as a swing interior backing up all 3 spots.

You can add one of the Sooner kids like Ford or Powers in the 3rd or one of the Badger Guards in the 2nd and now you've got a restocked unit that is young.

Shit, I'd actually take Christian Wilkins in the 1st to replace Richardson (and eventually Joseph), trade back into the 1st or high 2nd and snag whichever OT that falls AND take a Guard in the 3rd. Plus get Saffold.  That helps both Lines.

But lets please not say there's no fixes for the O-Line in the Draft just because it could be a historic one for DTs.

If we had a proven scouting staff and coaches with a great track record of finding and developing 2nd and 3rd day Offensive lineman, I might share your optimism. The fact is you are entrusting the Oline rebuild project in the hands of the same people that tried to convince everyone that Remmers would be better for us moving to Right Guard after he totally sucked filling in at LG in the playoffs. The same staff that though Hill could be a starting RT in this league. A team that gave up a 6th round pick for a Center/Guard that Shurmur didn't want and could never regain a starting position on the line when Elflein returned to the lineup and the interior of our OLine was getting blown up every week. We let our 6th round Guard get plucked off the practice squad only to find success as the potential long term starting LG for the Arizona Cardinals but he wasn't good enough to beat out Remmers and Compton?  I could go on, but that will take up a lot more time and space on this thread. In a draft that isn't loaded with OLine talent like last year, your selections better be spot on. The room for error is much smaller and I don't have any faith or trust in this Leadership Group to get that figured out in one offseason. I'm not arguing with you about the prospects you mentioned. I know that you follow the draft and spend time researching players but Zimmer and Spielman have made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to the OLine and I think it ultimately gets them fired after the lame duck year of their contracts expire in 2019. 

You forgot to mention they drafted Clemmings & Beavers in the 4th round and Yankey in the 5th.  They have to at least hit on one of those.  Even if they only stuck as a backup.

@"pumpf" said:

@"njvike" said:

@"pumpf" said: Before I worry about the Vikings, I would like to hear the excuses for why some folks ONLY post on this site after a Viking loss.  For 2 weeks... not a peep.  Now you can't shut 'em up.  It's almost like they want the team to lose, JUST so they can tell everyone how right they've been.

LOL! Congrats on one of the STUPIDEST posts of the year! (although, it's just day 1 out of 365, you'll no doubt be surpassed!)

I would like to hear WHY number of posts or WHEN someone posts somehow NEGATES that poster's OPINION? Do tell.

So, according to YOU,  30, 40, or 50 years of dedicated fandom to these chronic fucking losers doesn't matter because our number of posts doesn't please YOU??!!! How fucking arrogant is THAT opinion!

There are MORE than enough Blind Allegiance fans posting on this site. You know, the one's that actually track when and how much another fan posts on a fanboard? Or whether or not that poster's OPINION matches THEIRS? If that's how you "rate" a fellow fan, you're pathetic. Just because YOU CHOOSE to post on this site religiously does not mean EVERY fan needs to do so. Got it?

NO "excuse" is necessary for longtime fans expressing their dissatisfaction with yet ANOTHER under-performing Viking Squad, REGARDLESS of how often or infrequent they may CHOOSE to post on this site. 

I'm actually looking forward to the inevitable, endless posts of how we should "trust" the process of the current regime this offseason, because, as we all know, changing NOTHING really makes a difference!

Happy New Year to ya!

Please let me know if this post "counts", or if I'm just another "bad" fan (since 1968). Thanks in advance for clarifying my status..,..I'd really hate to continue my life long fandom without YOUR approval.

You can say whatever you want, NJ.  I'm sure you do consider yourself a "real" fan.  Fine; then you suck as a poster on this site.  Take your pick.  But you are absolutely silent when the team wins.  THAT'S why "when you post" matters.  It shows that you ONLY care about yourself, and making sure that everyone knows how "right" you (think) you are.  Does your opinion count? No, it doesn't.  Because you ONLY offer it when hind-sight can be offered to prove your opinions correct.  Funny how you ONLY have opinions about this team... after they lose.  And why is that?  Because all your opinions are negative.  You don't offer any insight; only hind-sight.  Congrats!  I can tell you... after we run the ball for -3 yards... that we should've done something else.  THAT is all you have to offer: you wait until the team fails in some way... and then show up to say we should've done something different.

Why do I care?  Because this is a place for Viking fans to talk football (and other things).  And you are polluting it.  You want to be respected?  You want to be considered a "real" fan?  Then show up and talk football all season long- not just when the team loses.  Or keep on being who you are; and I'll keep on calling you out for it.  You can ignore me, if you want.  Or you can prove me wrong.  That's what you seem to care about more than anything else; so why don't you do it now: prove me wrong.  Become a regular poster.  Wouldn't that be great- to prove me wrong?