My question throughout the game

My impression is they aren't getting much pressure with their 4 down linemen. Zim isn't sending the blitz quite as often. And they seem to be playing a lot more zone and less press man coverage. I think this is something Zimmer will figure out. Watching Barr trailing a wide receiver down the field is crazy. Where was the safety over the top?
I don't know if playing IIoka would make any difference, but why didn't they get him some snaps in the Buffalo game blowout?
This team has only lost two games and still has a chance. I don't know if they were highly overrated or just under performing. We shall see.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"Purplewhizz" said:

@"1VikesFan" said: I know some will always disagree but I think the veteran leadership is really important.  I  have said it often and will continue to say that this defense misses BRob and Newman too.

Its not just Robison.  It’s Griffen and Newman too.
All of the veteran leadership that side of the ball is gone now.  Harrison Smith is a good player but he’s not that guy.

Why isn't Kendricks? Smart, intense, 4th year, team commitment in new contract. MLB usually is QB of the defense.

Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.

Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?

Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?

We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January. 

It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true. 

@"njvike" said: Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.

Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?

Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?

We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January. 

It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true. 

Crudely put this could very well be the problem.
As far as "leaders" of this team or, at least, the defense.
Yes I'm sure many of these guys were Captains in college and I'm sure that all were probably Captains in High School. However, being a captain and being a leader is two different entities. One is just a title the other is a characteristic. 
The fact that you have to ask why one of these guys haven't stepped up to be a leader should quite simply put, answer the question for you.
 Don't under estimate what Brian did when he was on the field, sideline or off the field 
Some of the things he did that made him a leader had nothing to do with football.
On the field, as someone put it, the title "Captain" did not earn him the respect that he got from his coaches and teammates. That is something that is earned in many different ways.
Leading by example, respect given to each teammate, responsibility for each teammate (taken on as part of that leadership) etc.
He was a leader on this team far longer than most of you know and long before he was named as a Captain.
Don't under estimate his football IQ. He was a very smart player, ( i taught him some little things at a very young age, but he developed much more on his own) given the responsibility or burden (depending on his willingness to except it) which he accepted it as a responsibility to decipher each opposing team's verbiage (or signals) on blocking assignments for running and passing. When he was the starter he did this in the first 2 series of each game, once deciphered he had the coaches approval to change the defensive call or shift personnel along the line of scrimmage (front 7). Many times putting another player in position to make a play, rather than himself. Sometimes drawing the offensive blocking assignments to himself to free up another player or get another player in a one on one.
How do I know these things? I asked and i listened to the commentators who sometimes told what his responsibilities were. And I observed them too.
Now I never said he is the reason why the Vikings defense is not doing well. I believe others were insinuating. I did state the reasons what I thought were the problems.  Maybe because they too saw how much he was doing ( while still on the team) or listened as well.
Anyway, there is no real way to prove that theory is true or false, except for him to return to the team. As of now I don't see that happening. I've stated the reasons why and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about there either. No I believe the next time you see Brian as a part of this team will be when he decides to retire and signs that one day contract. I will be shocked if he is brought back any other way. 
As for me, well, i may be lurking more than posting, since he's no longer a part of this team, and to keep from causing bitter feelings between some of the Viking fans and myself I will try to stay silent.
This is not a goodbye, as i have made some pretty good friendships between myself and some of you.
How did Brian put It? See ya later guys and gals.

@"96POPS" said:

@"njvike" said: Smith and Kendricks were both captains in college. Kendricks even won some sort of "captains" award at UCLA. They must have some leadership qualities. I recall Saint Richard being LAUDED for bringing in "leaders" for the team. Revisionist history.....NOW they're not leaders. Gotcha.

Robison, Newman and Griffen were all part of the defense during last season's playoff debacle.....what was the EXCUSE then?

Cousins, Joseph and Rudolph are all longtime NFL players and starters, and all are current captains. Is it that they don't YELL enough? Curse enough? Throw their helmets enough? What specifically do they not bring to the table? Isn't Newman still on the sidelines? At practices? Communicating with players in between plays and during the endless timeouts during the game?

We all know veteran leadership is important, to a degree, but I'm not buying that the loss of Robison and Newman, 2 guys with an average age of @ 38, are the reason this defense has been so Frazier-esque since January. 

It seems to me that these are just more EXCUSES so Vikings fans can feel like victims instead of owning up to the possible fact that maybe, just MAYBE, the Vikings are simply being outplayed and outcoached by their opponents. That's a wacky outlook I know, but it just might be true. 

Crudely put this could very well be the problem.
As far as "leaders" of this team or, at least, the defense.
Yes I'm sure many of these guys were Captains in college and I'm sure that all were probably Captains in High School. However, being a captain and being a leader is two different entities. One is just a title the other is a characteristic. 
The fact that you have to ask why one of these guys haven't stepped up to be a leader should quite simply put, answer the question for you.
 Don't under estimate what Brian did when he was on the field, sideline or off the field 
Some of the things he did that made him a leader had nothing to do with football.
On the field, as someone put it, the title "Captain" did not earn him the respect that he got from his coaches and teammates. That is something that is earned in many different ways.
Leading by example, respect given to each teammate, responsibility for each teammate (taken on as part of that leadership) etc.
He was a leader on this team far longer than most of you know and long before he was named as a Captain.
Don't under estimate his football IQ. He was a very smart player, ( i taught him some little things at a very young age, but he developed much more on his own) given the responsibility or burden (depending on his willingness to except it) which he accepted it as a responsibility to decipher each opposing team's verbiage (or signals) on blocking assignments for running and passing. When he was the starter he did this in the first 2 series of each game, once deciphered he had the coaches approval to change the defensive call or shift personnel along the line of scrimmage (front 7). Many times putting another player in position to make a play, rather than himself. Sometimes drawing the offensive blocking assignments to himself to free up another player or get another player in a one on one.
How do I know these things? I asked and i listened to the commentators who sometimes told what his responsibilities were. And I observed them too.
Now I never said he is the reason why the Vikings defense is not doing well. I believe others were insinuating. I did state the reasons what I thought were the problems.  Maybe because they too saw how much he was doing ( while still on the team) or listened as well.
Anyway, there is no real way to prove that theory is true or false, except for him to return to the team. As of now I don't see that happening. I've stated the reasons why and apparently I don't know what I'm talking about there either. No I believe the next time you see Brian as a part of this team will be when he decides to retire and signs that one day contract. I will be shocked if he is brought back any other way. 
As for me, well, i may be lurking more than posting, since he's no longer a part of this team, and to keep from causing bitter feelings between some of the Viking fans and myself I will try to stay silent.
This is not a goodbye, as i have made some pretty good friendships between myself and some of you.
How did Brian put It? See ya later guys and gals.

This D has looked like shit since NO figured Zim out in 2nd half last year.
Did I miss something last year?
Did Brian go home at half time of that game?
Did he make the trip to Philly?

Asking for a friend!

nj, no offense taken bro. That was an honest statement from me. Holman, the same for you, tell the friend that some teams may have just figured us out. On the other hand two games out of 18 especially when those 2 games were playoff games ( where you win or go home. But again, i have my opinion and so does everyone else. 

Here's going to be an unpopular opinion... and possibly wrong cuz it's an opinion. =)

Many have asked "how come no one has stepped up into the vacant leadership role" that was created when a leader was unceremoniously cut.  How come (some)players are focusing more on their own stat numbers instead of doing their jobs(the little things) that don't show up as "production"?  So you have a player that is much loved/respected in the locker room and he is a leader, has a great relationship with his coaches, peers and the media.  From the outside looking in... the player is the face of the Viking D and a leader in the locker room.  This player has worked with upper management and has taken pay cut after pay cut and continued to do his job well(yes that meant all the little things that didn't show up in the stats).  He has made it known that he wants to play one more year and retire and that seems to be what is going to happen.  Bam, he's cut.  Gone.  He sacrifices his stats to do the little things and one of the reasons he's cut is that he's not producing stats.  Asked to do things that don't show up in the stats and then use lack of stats as one of the reasons to cut that player?  Ask him to take a pay cut so you can give larger pay to players that have larger stats?  What message does that say to players about "doing the little things" that make this defense work?  Why would anyone want to step into the players shoes that just got screwed over?  Me next!  Pick me!   I want less pay and more responsibility!  (Bill Lumbergh voice)Yeah,,,,  I'm going need you to come in on Saturday...  

Teams will figure out a defense and good teams did last year no doubt about it.  The adjustments NO made at halftime were the correct ones.  And Philly just never stopped attacking.  Zimmer's teams have had difficulty with offenses that are on constant attack mode.  Our three losses last year were to the Lions, Steelers and Panthers.  The lions have always attacked Zim's D via the air and are 5-3 against him.  It's really not that big of a mystery.  Our D is and has been vulnerable via big plays thru the air.  It's why Zim drafts DBs all the damn time.  If the other team protects their QB our pass coverage struggles.  Just like many other NFL teams.  It's not all about losing veteran leadership and how it was done... but I believe that it does have an impact on a team. 

Hopefully the start of this season will be the fire that forges the young players into a hardened defense, willing to do their job, execute their responsibility for the good of the team and not the fire that burns this team to the ground.               

I agree 100% with Pumpf on this one.  Youth is the future, but the importance of veteran leadership within the locker room and on the field can't be underestimated and lack of it will lead to wild inconsistency in the product on the field.  Our D is living proof of that now.  I believe younger players too often chase stats and vet's want to chase teams goals - mainly rings.  I thought they made a mistake letting BRob go this season.  That is playing out now with Everson out.

A couple thoughts on a Viking-less Sunday..

• Some suggest the league has "figured out our defense", but offense can dictate game play. So is it really that our defense can no longer figure out offenses?
• Money changes everything. This isn't the group of hungry young little-known defenders of 2015 playing in TCF Bank stadium: 8 defensive starters have received big contracts, 3 others are in first-round deals (Barr in his big 5th year payoff), and most have been to Pro Bowls and lauded nationwide. Sometimes guys start playing to protect the salaries and reputations they have been given, not to build them.

@"FSUVike" said: Every single season every single team cuts a respected veteran who is a leader. And somehow manage to survive.

Look, meltdowns this unexpected can't be pinned on just one factor alone. It's a variety of factors and you all know it once the emotional shock wears off.

Here's my factors, although I'm sure there's more:

1. Young OCs have borrowed a ton of misdirection and eye candy pre-snap from the college ranks. It's causing communication issues with the LBs and DBs and leading to wide open TEs, RBs and FBs. How Mac let Cupp go for Barr to defend is unfathomable to me.

2. Zimmer has had a history of having an opponent's first drive lead to a TD. He then adjusts and shuts down what the OC is throwing at him. That flat out isn't happening this year. No in-game adjustments. Why? Don't know, but whatever the reason it ain't good.

3. Loss of some veteran leadership. Yes, it's a legit factor. But not 100% the reason. And it bothers me that the Coaches and veterans haven't stepped up to plug the gap.

4. The Pass Rush isn't getting home but Mike won't blitz. I hate relying on blitzing to create pressure, but sometimes you don't have a choice. And what happened to all the exotic looks that were just fake blitzes? Puzzling.

5. Mac Ax isn't cutting it. He was an Outside Corner at Clemson who thrived on confidence and swagger. He has neither confidence nor swagger as a Slot CB and OCs  see it and are exploiting it.

6. I believe Iloka was brought in for the Big Nickel role. I am guessing he never played that role before and it's taking time to learn it. It is also possible Zimmer has already decided Big Nickel won't fix the coverage issues.

7. Richardson has never been consistent enough of a player and so far has not been the panacea many believed he would be.

8. So many new contracts on Defense and 1 glaring non-extension. Are some pressing to live up to new deals as some of you have suggested? I think so. Is Barr disappearing because he didn't get one? Again, I think so.

So there's 8 reasons for not dating my teenage Defense. All have legit reasons for contributing to the problem. Some, like a lack of veteran leadership, have a bigger slice of the blame pie than others.

For me it's mostly Zimmer. The League is changing yet again and this time he looks out of touch. So far, every time he's needed to look in the mirror and improve he's done so. I hope to hell he does it again.

1. I agree.
2. I agree that we're used to seeing the D be fairly bad on the first drive, only to make adjustments and shut down the opponent. Zimmer is still making adjustments, but I feel like teams are attacking things like execution, assignment discipline, and how they switch off coverage. I think those are harder things to fix in game and calling different plays or coverages can only help so much.
3. It is a factor, though Newman is still on the sidelines, so we haven't completely lost his influence. I do wonder if Griffen was supposed to take over more of Brian's role?
4. While I am sure there is more to it than that, I feel like the DL is really missing Griffen. He's our best pass rusher and commands double teams and while guys like Weatherly & Bower are nice rotational ends, neither of them are going to be the focus of the defenses at this point. We should still have enough talent to be generating more of a pass rush than what we're seeing though.
5. Mac has struggled. I liked the pick, but he has not proven to be a natural slot corner and I feel like we're better off with Hughes or even Kearse in there.
6. Hard to say. Kearse has been effective in that role and maybe they are utilizing it as much as they can get away with. It just feels look a good way to deal with the LB coverage breakdowns we've had. Not sure if Iloka was brought in only for that role or if because he provided depth and was a known quantity for Zimmer. I do feel that safety play is one of the many issues we have on D. Offenses seem to do a good job of avoiding Smith and looking Sendejo off on coverage, so I do wonder if Iloka or Harris would be more disciplined back there. It really bothers me when we get beat deep and there seems to be no help coming from over the top.
7. I think it's fair to say Richardson has been inconsistent. Not sure if I'd blame him yet for the issues on D.
8. It's possible. Players may be trying to prove their worth or think they are better than the system. That feels like something that can be corrected. I would hope the players would be humbled by now.

@"pumpf" said:

@"Maple Surple" said:

@"pumpf" said:

@"Maple Surple" said: Maybe a statue of him would help brighten up the locker room ?

C’mon...
I get that you guys all have all his jerseys and autographed pics & have actually talked to him in person about fish, but enough. This message board has turned into a living obituary 
Opponent scores...BRob would have stopped it, Our QB fumbles ? BRob would have coached him up, Our secondary falls apart? BRob would have laid his hands on them

Look we get it, you really liked him and his Dad being connected here, but that ship has sailed. You can’t be objective & obsessive, they don’t mix

If nothing else tell me why ...
not one team in the league hasn’t hired him as a player or coach ?

Talk about conjecture...
My opinion is based on having played the game at the college level... and having coached it for 20+ years.  I have never met Brian... and I think if Pops were honest, he knows my "handle" and that's about it.  I like Pops, but it's not like we've ever swapped PMs.  I would guess that those who completely disregard the importance of leadership... have never played the game at a high level... or served in the military.

It really doesn't matter why no other team has signed him; what matters is that we didn't.  Maybe that was a good decision... maybe it wasn't.  But- as I said at the time- the decision to let BRob go seemed like a move made for the future depth of the DL, not for the present (i.e. "win now").  

I didnt win a Super Bowl nor storm the beaches of Normandy, but I know leadership is important, but so is on the field play
The Bears didnt trade for Mack because he gives a good pep talk

Nope; they traded for him because he's a super-star.  But, remind me: what's the Bears' record?

@"96POPS" said: Don't under estimate his football IQ. He was a very smart player, ( i taught him some little things at a very young age, but he developed much more on his own) given the responsibility or burden (depending on his willingness to except it) which he accepted it as a responsibility to decipher each opposing team's verbiage (or signals) on blocking assignments for running and passing. When he was the starter he did this in the first 2 series of each game, once deciphered he had the coaches approval to change the defensive call or shift personnel along the line of scrimmage (front 7). Many times putting another player in position to make a play, rather than himself. Sometimes drawing the offensive blocking assignments to himself to free up another player or get another player in a one on one.

This is what I have often been driving at.  Unselfish and more than a just a coach on the field.  He was a very good DE, but the smarts certainly made this D much better.  And yes, that combination was part of his leadership quality. 

@"Jor-El" said: A couple thoughts on a Viking-less Sunday..

• Some suggest the league has "figured out our defense", but offense can dictate game play. So is it really that our defense can no longer figure out offenses?
• Money changes everything. This isn't the group of hungry young little-known defenders of 2015 playing in TCF Bank stadium: 8 defensive starters have received big contracts, 3 others are in first-round deals (Barr in his big 5th year payoff), and most have been to Pro Bowls and lauded nationwide. Sometimes guys start playing to protect the salaries and reputations they have been given, not to build them.

Jor-El, I believe your second point is spot-on.  The Bills game is an example where the Vikes believed the Vegas line and assumed the Bills would be in terror of playing on our turf...with a dash of looking ahead to the Rams.  Give them credit, the Bills came to play.  Notice how the Pukers didn't allow that to happen to them.

@"Bezerker88" said:

Here's going to be an unpopular opinion... and possibly wrong cuz it's an opinion. =)

Many have asked "how come no one has stepped up into the vacant leadership role" that was created when a leader was unceremoniously cut.  How come (some)players are focusing more on their own stat numbers instead of doing their jobs(the little things) that don't show up as "production"?  So you have a player that is much loved/respected in the locker room and he is a leader, has a great relationship with his coaches, peers and the media.  From the outside looking in... the player is the face of the Viking D and a leader in the locker room.  This player has worked with upper management and has taken pay cut after pay cut and continued to do his job well(yes that meant all the little things that didn't show up in the stats).  He has made it known that he wants to play one more year and retire and that seems to be what is going to happen.  Bam, he's cut.  Gone.  He sacrifices his stats to do the little things and one of the reasons he's cut is that he's not producing stats.  Asked to do things that don't show up in the stats and then use lack of stats as one of the reasons to cut that player?  Ask him to take a pay cut so you can give larger pay to players that have larger stats?  What message does that say to players about "doing the little things" that make this defense work?  Why would anyone want to step into the players shoes that just got screwed over?  Me next!  Pick me!   I want less pay and more responsibility!  (Bill Lumbergh voice)Yeah,,,,  I'm going need you to come in on Saturday...  

Teams will figure out a defense and good teams did last year no doubt about it.  The adjustments NO made at halftime were the correct ones.  And Philly just never stopped attacking.  Zimmer's teams have had difficulty with offenses that are on constant attack mode.  Our three losses last year were to the Lions, Steelers and Panthers.  The lions have always attacked Zim's D via the air and are 5-3 against him.  It's really not that big of a mystery.  Our D is and has been vulnerable via big plays thru the air.  It's why Zim drafts DBs all the damn time.  If the other team protects their QB our pass coverage struggles.  Just like many other NFL teams.  It's not all about losing veteran leadership and how it was done... but I believe that it does have an impact on a team. 

Hopefully the start of this season will be the fire that forges the young players into a hardened defense, willing to do their job, execute their responsibility for the good of the team and not the fire that burns this team to the ground.               

That has been my point all along.  When "business" decisions get made from the office side, does it affect the "business" decisions on the field side? 

And while classless and a bit off base, it is why Earl Thomas flipped off his own sidelines after getting hurt.  He wanted paid (he was getting well paid, but wanted security for future years) and felt that the business end of the situation left him vulnerable.