More Bad GMing here

whoa, thought this was a Spielman thread...  ;) B)  

I've seen a couple of forum members suggest it, but there is zero chance that happens this season so it really isn't a relevant discussion topic IMO. 

I always see the 'where I was right' threads from FSU....where are the 'where I was wrong' threads??  :3 ;)

@"StickyBun" said: I always see the 'where I was right' threads from FSU....where are the 'where I was wrong' threads??  :3 ;)

Too many to list! Maybe my biggest was Harrison Smith. Thought Rick was nuts to trade up for him. Or Roanall Smith. Fell in love with the athleticism instead of the actual collegiate production.

Treadwell could be the next one. We'll see.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"StickyBun" said: I always see the 'where I was right' threads from FSU....where are the 'where I was wrong' threads??  :3 ;)

Too many to list! Maybe my biggest was Harrison Smith. Thought Rick was nuts to trade up for him. Or Roanall Smith. Fell in love with the athleticism instead of the actual collegiate production.

Treadwell could be the next one. We'll see.

im one of the trade XR posters and i dont think nececarily this year. but next year when we need to start choosing who we’re going to keep and whos got to go doesnt it make sense to deal older players worth maximum value?

id say griffen should be on that list as well 

Sounds like something the Twins would do.  "Let's trade our best players or the guys playing well for some dudes that might be decent someday."

Not on board trading XR at all...I want all of my players - I'm a greedy MOFO. Enjoyed the OP FSU.. 

@"FSUVike" said: First there was the smattering of 'BRob gets cut to keep a 7th Round or UDFA who's never done squat in the League' posts.

Now I've read a few 'Trade Rhodes while his value is the highest and let Waynes take his spot' ideas. Um, no.

First, I (and Wetlander) where all over Minnesota picking Trae before anyone else was. We were right about the pick and have staunchly defended him his whole career.

But this dude is not XR 2.0.  In my opinion they're not even comperable. Xavier shut down Michael Floyd in college and dueled Hopkins and Watkins to a standstill. Granted, Alshon gave him some problems in a Bowl Game.

My point is that Rhodes was proven and polished coming out of college. His issue early in his NFL career was learning how to temper his physical style of play so he wasn't getting so many penalties. He has never been a 'make up for a mistake with speed' CB.

Waynes is exactly the opposite. He's physical when tackling, but not with WRs off the Line or on routes. His PI issues have been when he gets got off guard and doesn't trust his speed enough to let him recover. As Trae has learned to read schemes, routes and WRs better his cushion has decreased and the penalties have dropped. He's also learning to trust his recovery speed more.

None of that means he will ever have that dominating Alpha Male Shut Down Corner mentality. Nor does he have the requisite physicality with WRs that helps one get to that status.

What is Trae? Probably a Top 10 #2 CB with upside. Trading XR and counting on Waynes to fill his shoes is bad roster management. Hughes is already developing faster than Waynes. Keep him over Trae if there's a trade to be made for a mythical Starting O-Lineman who never gets hurt but is available for some arcane reason.

You get a true Shut Down Corner once every 10 or more years. Trade one away that you drafted while still in his prime and you will regret it.

I haven't heard anyone suggest that we trade Xavier.  But if I had... I would've given them the ol' "eye roll" treatment...  ;)

EDIT: Oops... I guess I should've kept reading.  Well, there go the eyes...

On the other board someone suggested that with Iloka signing they should trade Barr and play Gedeon and Smith at linebacker.

I do not see how we can sign Barr and Waynes.  I expect he will want to get paid - who wouldn't? So it is more likely that Waynes will not be long for this team.  Hughes makes that even more likely.

I cannot fathom in any parallel universe a moment when Zim would agree to trading XR. I really cannot.

@"AGRforever" said: im one of the trade XR posters and i dont think nececarily this year. but next year when we need to start choosing who we’re going to keep and whos got to go doesnt it make sense to deal older players worth maximum value?

id say griffen should be on that list as well 

while I dont like the idea,  i have floated in that past as well as a way to keep others under the cap.  We cant pay everybody and the guys that are still in their prime, but are nearing the later stages of it and are carrying large cap numbers should be the ones to see the chopping block before the younger, more affordable guys.  yes X is the best right now,  but how long will he be the best and at what price tag?

maybe the dead cap money wont make it make sense,  but these are the contracts that would give us the most cap relief without as much drop off as you are keeping an up and coming player, hopefully one that is on a cheaper contract.  fans wont like it,  but by selling these guys towards the end of their peak the return on investment is much better than waiting until they are just a name and you get nothing.

I am not saying Rhodes is ready to fall off in terms of production,  but remember it often happens fast and we all cringed when the team opted to pay out past high dollar guys like Allen and AD instead of moving them while they still had a bit of worth.

and CB seems to be an area of depth currently where we could maybe afford to take a talent loss.

what happened the to the thread this discussion was occurring in?

I think its been In several threads this summer concerning the cap.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"AGRforever" said: im one of the trade XR posters and i dont think nececarily this year. but next year when we need to start choosing who we’re going to keep and whos got to go doesnt it make sense to deal older players worth maximum value?

id say griffen should be on that list as well 

while I dont like the idea,  i have floated in that past as well as a way to keep others under the cap.  We cant pay everybody and the guys that are still in their prime, but are nearing the later stages of it and are carrying large cap numbers should be the ones to see the chopping block before the younger, more affordable guys.  yes X is the best right now,  but how long will he be the best and at what price tag?

maybe the dead cap money wont make it make sense,  but these are the contracts that would give us the most cap relief without as much drop off as you are keeping an up and coming player, hopefully one that is on a cheaper contract.  fans wont like it,  but by selling these guys towards the end of their peak the return on investment is much better than waiting until they are just a name and you get nothing.

I am not saying Rhodes is ready to fall off in terms of production,  but remember it often happens fast and we all cringed when the team opted to pay out past high dollar guys like Allen and AD instead of moving them while they still had a bit of worth.

and CB seems to be an area of depth currently where we could maybe afford to take a talent loss.

@"prairieghost" said: I cannot fathom in any parallel universe a moment when Zim would agree to trading XR. I really cannot.

honestly, everyone is tradeable for the right offer. a coach that wouldnt listen shouldnt be an nfl coach

We've spent many years looking for a shut down corner.  Now, we're gonna trade him away for picks that may or may not work out?  No way...

Seldom does a team improve by tradiong their best players...

I think it's a difference I what we want from our team.  I want a superbowl,  but I don't want to stick with talent for so long that it's no longer talent and not worth anything if we tried to trade it.  I want this team to do what it takes to keep the talent level as high as it can afford,  even if it means moving on of my favorite players to make room cap wise for several more high production guys and nets some premium picks or players in return.  Nobody is saying trade them no matter what, but certainly be open to offers.... or be open to first roundees netting us late third round picks in compensation for losing them via FA just as they themselves are entering their prime.

X isn't tradeable yet with his prorated signing bonus hanging over the team,  but I wouldn't be deaf to offers for other good players or even eventually X when it makes sense for the cap.