CB with #1? A bit of a pivotal moment for me.

Its very easy to play the hindsight card.  But we've drafted 2 starters in the last 2 years for the OL and brought in 2-4 starters via FA.  Its not like they're doing nothing its just that what theyve done hasn't worked.  Hopefully we can get it righted this year.

@"Jor-El" said: Interesting. I was thinking about Hughes this morning, partly related to the "Why not Will Hernandez?" aspect, but also because several people have commented in the past week that Rhodes was a disappointment in 2018 and maybe we should move him and let Hughes start. But, though I liked what Hughes did in his shortened rookie season, remember his limitations: he's 5'10" and 190 soaking wet. That's going to replace Xavier Rhodes? Rhodes wasn't as impressive this year, but we also didn't have to face a lot of bigger WRs, partly because Jordy Nelson and others have left the NFCN. Josh Robinson got run out of town by Zimmer three years ago for being too short and spending most of a season injured...how is Hughes dramatically better? Rhodes is still a good CB and vital to controlling taller receivers. Mac Alexander was one of the few defenders who improved in 2018 and has become a good nickelback. We found good depth in Holton Hill. But we passed Hernandez, Braden Smith, James Daniels...not to mention Nick Chubb. Hughes was a luxury pick by a team that had true needs.

I think what happened last draft was pretty obvious.  They had Hughes markedly better than the
OLine that was available to them (for our scheme at least), and they were
confident that they’d be able to pick up a starting caliber guard at the bottom
of the second, similar to what they got with Elflein.  We also can’t forget that Alexander was
exposed at the end of last year, and people were railing on the Vikings defense
for collapsing against top teams.  Our
lack of a quality nickel corner was a big part of that.  Waynes also had a strong probability of
moving on due to us not being able to afford him after we resigned a bunch of
our defense.  so it’s not like CB was not
a need.  I don’t really fault them for
not getting a starting guard at the bottom of the 2nd as in almost
all scenarios there should be a starting caliber guard available there.

For me, where I think they screwed up is that they failed to
understand the significant risk that Easton and Elflein would regress because
of their injuries and spending all offseason trying to rehab and likely losing
strength.  I also think they were a
little to hellbent on stuffing Remmers into G. 
Moving Remmers to G was a move that also carried some risk in him not
making the transition inside, and also adds risk that Hill or O’Neill are both either
not good or unknowns at RT.  That’s
significant risk at 4 of the 5 starting spots. 
3 of the 4 risky spots busted, while only O’Neill played above his
expected playing level.  We really needed
to realize that we were carrying too much risk and brought in either a better
caliber FA or drafting a higher quality of OL in the draft.  Upgrading from a bottom of the 2nd
player who you think will be solid, to a bottom of the 1st player
who’s likely to be pro bowl caliber would go a long ways in mitigating risk
because most bottom of the 2nd rookies are going to take a year or
two of seasoning to make an impact.

I don’t think it would have been out of the question to go
Hernandez – O’Neill, or Hernandez – Corbett (or whichever starting guard they
thought would be there in the 2nd) and then leave Remmers at RT or
let him compete at RG.  There would have
been much less risk with that plan.

@"medaille" said: I don’t think it would have been out of the question to go Hernandez – O’Neill, or Hernandez – Corbett (or whichever starting guard they thought would be there in the 2nd) and then leave Remmers at RT or let him compete at RG.  There would have been much less risk with that plan.

@"medaille" said: I think what happened last draft was pretty obvious.  They had Hughes markedly better than the OLine that was available to them (for our scheme at least), and they were confident that they’d be able to pick up a starting caliber guard at the bottom of the second, similar to what they got with Elflein.  We also can’t forget that Alexander was exposed at the end of last year, and people were railing on the Vikings defense for collapsing against top teams.  Our lack of a quality nickel corner was a big part of that.  Waynes also had a strong probability of moving on due to us not being able to afford him after we resigned a bunch of our defense.  so it’s not like CB was not a need.  I don’t really fault them for not getting a starting guard at the bottom of the 2nd as in almost all scenarios there should be a starting caliber guard available there.

For me, where I think they screwed up is that they failed to
understand the significant risk that Easton and Elflein would regress because
of their injuries and spending all offseason trying to rehab and likely losing
strength.  I also think they were a
little to hellbent on stuffing Remmers into G. 
Moving Remmers to G was a move that also carried some risk in him not
making the transition inside, and also adds risk that Hill or O’Neill are both either
not good or unknowns at RT.  That’s
significant risk at 4 of the 5 starting spots. 
3 of the 4 risky spots busted, while only O’Neill played above his
expected playing level.  We really needed
to realize that we were carrying too much risk and brought in either a better
caliber FA or drafting a higher quality of OL in the draft.  Upgrading from a bottom of the 2nd
player who you think will be solid, to a bottom of the 1st player
who’s likely to be pro bowl caliber would go a long ways in mitigating risk
because most bottom of the 2nd rookies are going to take a year or
two of seasoning to make an impact.

I don’t think it would have been out of the question to go
Hernandez – O’Neill, or Hernandez – Corbett (or whichever starting guard they
thought would be there in the 2nd) and then leave Remmers at RT or
let him compete at RG.  There would have
been much less risk with that plan.

Accurate, but IMO this translates as the Vikings braintrust going into the 2018 draft thinking:

DB: We had a leading pass defense, have 4 young early draft picks and all starters currently healthy - but oh my, one might not yet be fully developed, one might leave after two more years, some might age, Zim might want to run 4-CB sets - we need to make stocking our DBs a high priority!!
OL: We've had a poor unit for a decade,  everyone cites this as the weakest unit on our team, our reliable utility player retired, two guys finished the year on IR - but a former UDFA and a rookie both had one good season, we can assume full recovery from injuries, and Collins and Isadora will develop better than any other young linemen this team has coached in recent years - so why worry so much about the OL?!

Heres the main question???

Lets say we had drafted the BPA on OL at #1 and also drafted Oniel. Is this team light years ahead of where we finished?  The way the D colapsed this year Im not sure any of this matters. So we win another game or two just to get pounded by the Saints in New Orleans. I think Id rather take the peaceful death now then get destroyed by Brees again. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"medaille" said: I don’t think it would have been out of the question to go Hernandez – O’Neill, or Hernandez – Corbett (or whichever starting guard they thought would be there in the 2nd) and then leave Remmers at RT or let him compete at RG.  There would have been much less risk with that plan.

PA and Leber were talking today...Hernandez may not have been a scheme fit, but a road grader @ OG just might have helped the running game a bit this year. 

@"AGRforever" said: Heres the main question???

Lets say we had drafted the BPA on OL at #1 and also drafted Oniel. Is this team light years ahead of where we finished?  The way the D colapsed this year Im not sure any of this matters. So we win another game or two just to get pounded by the Saints in New Orleans. I think Id rather take the peaceful death now then get destroyed by Brees again. 

This isn't a new take; many have offered it before... but it's worth asking again: if Zimmer is so good a "coaching up" DBs, then why do we have to spend high draft capital on them?  Why not get a "diamond" (like A. Harris) and make him into a good player... and spend the draft capital on positions that are harder to hit on  (like OL!!!)?

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"medaille" said: I don’t think it would have been out of the question to go Hernandez – O’Neill, or Hernandez – Corbett (or whichever starting guard they thought would be there in the 2nd) and then leave Remmers at RT or let him compete at RG.  There would have been much less risk with that plan.

PA and Leber were talking today...Hernandez may not have been a scheme fit, but a road grader @ OG just might have helped the running game a bit this year. 

@"Jor-El" said: Interesting. I was thinking about Hughes this morning, partly related to the "Why not Will Hernandez?" aspect, but also because several people have commented in the past week that Rhodes was a disappointment in 2018 and maybe we should move him and let Hughes start. But, though I liked what Hughes did in his shortened rookie season, remember his limitations: he's 5'10" and 190 soaking wet. That's going to replace Xavier Rhodes? Rhodes wasn't as impressive this year, but we also didn't have to face a lot of bigger WRs, partly because Jordy Nelson and others have left the NFCN. Josh Robinson got run out of town by Zimmer three years ago for being too short and spending most of a season injured...how is Hughes dramatically better? Rhodes is still a good CB and vital to controlling taller receivers. Mac Alexander was one of the few defenders who improved in 2018 and has become a good nickelback. We found good depth in Holton Hill. But we passed Hernandez, Braden Smith, James Daniels...not to mention Nick Chubb. Hughes was a luxury pick by a team that had true needs.

Oh, and fyi, the League changed. Huge guys like Evans and Alshon and Brandon Marshall that could out muscle, out leap and post you up have been getting replaced by smaller, shifter guys.

And for 1,000th time, Hernandez is NOT a ZBS guy. You were much more spot on with Braden Smith.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Jor-El" said: Interesting. I was thinking about Hughes this morning, partly related to the "Why not Will Hernandez?" aspect, but also because several people have commented in the past week that Rhodes was a disappointment in 2018 and maybe we should move him and let Hughes start. But, though I liked what Hughes did in his shortened rookie season, remember his limitations: he's 5'10" and 190 soaking wet. That's going to replace Xavier Rhodes? Rhodes wasn't as impressive this year, but we also didn't have to face a lot of bigger WRs, partly because Jordy Nelson and others have left the NFCN. Josh Robinson got run out of town by Zimmer three years ago for being too short and spending most of a season injured...how is Hughes dramatically better? Rhodes is still a good CB and vital to controlling taller receivers. Mac Alexander was one of the few defenders who improved in 2018 and has become a good nickelback. We found good depth in Holton Hill. But we passed Hernandez, Braden Smith, James Daniels...not to mention Nick Chubb. Hughes was a luxury pick by a team that had true needs.

Hughes is better because he didn't spend his entire college career playing Zone like Robinson.

Oh, and fyi, the League changed. Huge guys like Evans and Alshon and Brandon Marshall that could out muscle, out leap and post you up have been getting replaced by smaller, shifter guys.

And for 1,000th time, Hernandez is NOT a ZBS guy. You were much more spot on with Braden Smith.