Question for Mr. Nichols

@"greediron" said:

@"prairieghost" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"prairieghost" said: I don't want to lose any of these guys but one thing you guys aren't factoring in is that if you take Diggs away then you have Thielen, Rudy and a bunch of unknowns. I know Thielen and Rudy are good, but that's putting a lot of pressure on 2 receivers. Our best pass catching RB just left in free agency and so did one of our depth WRs who always contributed when given an opportunity. Yes, we can draft someone this year but to lose Diggs would take away half the field. He's an outstanding route runner and has excellent hands and feet. He's had his injury issues I will concede, but if we let him walk I challenge you to find another guy like him who could start immediately and contribute as much without paying top dollar...and that's going to leave a huge void in our offense and 1 less experienced and savvy target for our big shiny new QB to throw to.

I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest.  He is the #2 WR.  Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?

True enough, but I thought we had a HC and DL coach who are probably one of the best D coach combos in the league at developing players? I'd roll the dice on Zim/Patterson et al getting more out of draft picks and developmental guys I guess.

Dunno, they are in a bit of a slump IMO.  After hitting on BRob, Griff and Hunter in the middle rounds, the cupboard seems bare.

I think Hunters stats reflect his full tie role as LDE, much like BRob didn't rack up the stats he was integral to the DL success by doing what is asked of that position.  Keep in mind before Griff got hurt he was leading the league in sacks and had at least one in like the first 8 games straight.  Did Hunter play a role in allowing that productivity?  He also doesn't get run on on that side hardly at all.

I thnk you'll see an uptick across the line if you add Richardson over TJohnson and rotate in JJohnson and BRob regularly.  I think the guys wore down last season.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Kendricks makes the most plays of the guys you have listed. I like Hunter, but....less tackles, less assists and less sacks this year playing as a starter than last year when he played less snaps. I know he's only 23 years old, but I think there's a book out on him now and he needs to evolve and grow. He's still not using his speed/power to get low and flat, beat the tackle and make the shortest line to the QB. He can't just bull rush or take these wide loops. He's got the waist of a big WR, not some lead in his ass which would come in handy sometimes.

I think all of you are underestimating what Hunter does. If you adjust for snap counts he led the team in run stop %, QB pressures, QB hurries, QB hits, and tackling %. Everson picked up more sacks but if you watch them a lot of times it was due to pressure pushing the pocket his way. The Vikings defense isn't built to sack the QB, its built to pressure the QB. So the sack numbers are going to be inconsistent. Outside of Myles Garrett, Hunter is probably the 3rd best pass rusher in the NFL under 25. You don't let that walk out the door. 

Don't want him to walk, but the Viking's pass rush fell off the table the last 6 games, Zimmer even admits to it. Like I said, I like him, but Kendricks is a much more productive player. I guess I'm not following you on snap counts....Hunter had to have had a higher snap count last year than he did the year before but his productivity on tackles, assists and sacks were all down?

@"RushmoreVike" said:

@"Canthony" said:

@"RushmoreVike" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: If it were me I would prioritize them: 

1. Hunter 
2. Barr 
3. Diggs
4. Kendricks 

Ultimately I think they'll all end up with new contracts in Minnesota. But I am not convinced they will do all 4 extensions this off-season. The question will be how willing Hunter and Diggs will be to do extensions now vs. next season. Both have good value now but strong seasons would push their contracts near the top of the market for their respective positions. Thielen will also get a new deal next off-season if he has another strong season, so just keep that in mind too. 

I know you think Barr is the straw that stirs Zims defensive cocktails,  but IMO Kendricks has proven to be more of a play maker in this defense than AB.  Now maybe that is because Barr is playing a role that allows Kendricks more freedom,  but outside of Linval, Rhodes and Harry,  IMO Kendricks is the next best guy we have on that side of the ball.

Kendricks and Hunter should be locked up first and then Diggs.

I think Hunter has a lot to prove before giving him a big contract myself.  His physical skills are unquestionable,  his talent is there as well, but he hasnt shown to be a consistent play maker from that side in terms of QB pressure and run contain.  I think we saw a drop off at RDE last year from BRob getting the bulk of the snaps.   I am not just talking about sacks,  I am talking about the overall contribution from the position. 

Hunter is fine and likely to have a big year if Richardson works out.

wow ... I would say Hunter, Kendricks are the most important.   Followed by Diggs - but he will want too much.  And I would trade Barr. 

@"greediron" said: umm, yes, is that okay? 

@"Canthony" said:

@"greediron" said:

I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest.  He is the #2 WR.  Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?

You think that Diggs is a and the #2 WR?

@"Canthony" said:

@"greediron" said: umm, yes, is that okay? 

@"Canthony" said:

@"greediron" said:

I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest.  He is the #2 WR.  Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?

You think that Diggs is a and the #2 WR?

I am just boggled I guess. There isn't a single GM that would take Adam over Diggs. Not sure how you cant see that Diggs is the best receiver lol. But its all good

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Canthony" said:

@"greediron" said: umm, yes, is that okay? 

@"Canthony" said:

@"greediron" said:

I was kind of thinking the opposite to be honest.  He is the #2 WR.  Not easily replaceable but, would the dropoff be as pronounced as it would be at DE or either LB position?

You think that Diggs is a and the #2 WR?

I am just boggled I guess. There isn't a single GM that would take Adam over Diggs. Not sure how you cant see that Diggs is the best receiver lol. But its all good

You're dead wrong about that.

Both are pretty special, but it certainly isn't "easy to see" or obvious that Diggs is better. 

Both are pretty amazing and neither would be as good without the other. Both have good speed, run great routes, have good hands, and make contested catches. Who's better? I think Diggsy has a little more juice, better feet, can break more ankles, better after the catch. I think he scares defenses a little more than Thielen does. 

@"MaroonBells" said: Both are pretty amazing and neither would be as good without the other. Both have good speed, run great routes, have good hands, and make contested catches. Who's better? I think Diggsy has a little more juice, better feet, can break more ankles, better after the catch. I think he scares defenses a little more than Thielen does. 

@"greediron" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: Both are pretty amazing and neither would be as good without the other. Both have good speed, run great routes, have good hands, and make contested catches. Who's better? I think Diggsy has a little more juice, better feet, can break more ankles, better after the catch. I think he scares defenses a little more than Thielen does. 

Agreed.  I think Diggs has more talent.  But Adam has an approach to the game that is unmatched IMO.  His work, preparation, film study, details and focus are incredible.

Leave it at the fact that Adam is the better player right now. More refined in his craft and more consistent. Diggs' raw talent is better and he is a top 5 NFL route runner when healthy. If you polled GM's you would get a mix of who they'd prefer. 

And there's also the injury factor. Diggs misses multiple games every season, Adam doesn't. GMs tend to notice things like that. Well, the good ones anyway.

@"Geoff Nichols" said: Leave it at the fact that Adam is the better player right now. More refined in his craft and more consistent. Diggs' raw talent is better and he is a top 5 NFL route runner when healthy. If you polled GM's you would get a mix of who they'd prefer. 

Which is why I said when they are on the field it isn't hard to notice whos better.

@"Geoff Nichols" said: Leave it at the fact that Adam is the better player right now. More refined in his craft and more consistent. Diggs' raw talent is better and he is a top 5 NFL route runner when healthy. If you polled GM's you would get a mix of who they'd prefer. 

@"greediron" said:

@"Jor-El" said: IMO Diggs is the most interesting situation. Prior to the playoffs, I thought it was very clear he was no longer our #1 receiver and in 3 years had not established himself beyond the 2nd tier of NFL WRs. He has his moments, but also gets pretty quiet for stretches of each season. Had a monster game against Tampa in week 3 but never had another +100 yard or multi-TD game last year. Good WR, not great. But then...THE MIRACLE. Awesome catch and play, no doubt. It got an amazing amount of publicity, and so did Diggs. Now, he might think he's in Odell Beckham's class and maybe wants a top 10 WR contract. I have had people on this board tell me that Diggs deserves $12M per year. I wouldn't do it; I think that type of WR needs to take over the game at least 4-5 times a season and Diggs doesn't. If Diggs wants a huge deal right now, I would hold off. I suppose he might build on the excitement of the Saints victory and have a monster season and the Vikings will regret not locking him up before this season. I just think he'll have another year of about 70 catches and 900 yards.

Interesting is a good word.  I would let him play it out.  If he stays healthy and has another consistent year, then he is worth a decent contract.  But not a top 10 IMO.

@"NodakViking" said: I think Hunters stats reflect his full tie role as LDE, much like BRob didn't rack up the stats he was integral to the DL success by doing what is asked of that position.  Keep in mind before Griff got hurt he was leading the league in sacks and had at least one in like the first 8 games straight.  Did Hunter play a role in allowing that productivity?  He also doesn't get run on on that side hardly at all.

@"808Vikingsfan" said:

@"NodakViking" said: I think Hunters stats reflect his full tie role as LDE, much like BRob didn't rack up the stats he was integral to the DL success by doing what is asked of that position.  Keep in mind before Griff got hurt he was leading the league in sacks and had at least one in like the first 8 games straight.  Did Hunter play a role in allowing that productivity?  He also doesn't get run on on that side hardly at all.

First post here.   I think you can say the same for Diggs.  Seemed like a common theme where Diggs looked to be a decoy to get Thielen open.  That's why I like this team so much, no one seems selfish.  They sacrifice their numbers for the betterment of the team.