Every Teddy long pass from 2015

@"MarkSP18" said: The whole problem which I have not seen anyone mention is that this video is from two freaking years and one terrible injury ago.

To assume that Teddy will get back to his old playing form and get better is taking a lot of liberty.

There is not a long list (I cannot find anyone besides maybe a Willis McGahee) who have come back from a similar type injury (not just a couple of ligament tears) and have had success.

This is the entire problem for me.

If the Vikings were still rebuilding then I would be fine with Teddy being put back out there and given a chance to sink or swim.

But this team is ready to win now and looking at the contracts on the team the next 3 years are pretty crucial.

After that some players may be gone or asked to redo their deals (like Griffen or Joseph for example).

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: dear lord the comments here about teddy are funny. its hard repeating the same bs to these guys. like talking to a wall. 

Are you here just to bag on those who view Teddy as possibly not the answer? We know, you are pro-Teddy....that's cool. I think we are all pro-Teddy the person, he's a great young man. Its Teddy the player with the questions marks about that leg that draws debate and rightly so. 

The answer isn't clear cut, no matter who you might favor for QB. 

I am strongly in Teddy's corner as well,  but I have to agree with this statement and have said so many times.   They all have question marks and likely none more so than Teddy,  but when comparing expected costs, age, stage of development, and about every other factor that I can come up with... Teddy in purple next year competing for the starting job makes the most sense to me... we all need to keep an open mind on this,  but we need to keep our eyes open as well.  some of the arguments are bordering on the ridiculous both for and against every QB in play. 

@"Norse" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

if you cant see the differences in the 2 offenses and those 2 players (specifically Diggs and Theilen) from 2015 to 2017 then there is no point in trying to have a football discussion with you.   the talking points have been made time and time again and if you refuse to use common sense and your eyes than no amount of discourse will make a difference.

There is a reason Teddy was ranked 30th with his passing game and Keenum's passing game was 10th. Zimmer said it best Case has big balls.
You only seem to make excuses for Teddy.

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: dear lord the comments here about teddy are funny. its hard repeating the same bs to these guys. like talking to a wall. 

Are you here just to bag on those who view Teddy as possibly not the answer? We know, you are pro-Teddy....that's cool. I think we are all pro-Teddy the person, he's a great young man. Its Teddy the player with the questions marks about that leg that draws debate and rightly so. 

The answer isn't clear cut, no matter who you might favor for QB. 

I am strongly in Teddy's corner as well,  but I have to agree with this statement and have said so many times.   They all have question marks and likely none more so than Teddy,  but when comparing expected costs, age, stage of development, and about every other factor that I can come up with... Teddy in purple next year competing for the starting job makes the most sense to me... we all need to keep an open mind on this,  but we need to keep our eyes open as well.  some of the arguments are bordering on the ridiculous both for and against every QB in play. 

I think we all love Teddy.  Perhaps in a little bit healthier way than some others....    

There is little doubt Teddy has the biggest upside but he also has the most to prove. Sam is a former #1 pick with a legendary arm who did some good things while wearing purple.  Case had a heck of year last year and Teddy shows a lot of promise.  But promise isnt the same as having actually done it.

We all got some chicken skin when the crowd roared when Teddy took the field.  Although most of us dont cling to that moment in the wee hours of the night.

For all of the Teddy lovers on this site, PA and Charchian discussed Charch's deep dive into the video on KFAN this morning. His assessment of Teddy's overall mechanics, decision making, arm strength, etc. were not favorable at all. I think several of us are guilty of romanticizing Teddy's game and what he's been through. It was interesting to hear him talk about re-familiarizing himself with his skills and deficiencies since it's been 2 years since he's had any meaningful playing time. When comparing Teddy to Bradford, Keenum, or Cousins, he put him last against every one of them. He likes Teddy, but not as a starter. It's definitely worth a listen on the Podcast. 

@"Norse" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

if you cant see the differences in the 2 offenses and those 2 players (specifically Diggs and Theilen) from 2015 to 2017 then there is no point in trying to have a football discussion with you.   the talking points have been made time and time again and if you refuse to use common sense and your eyes than no amount of discourse will make a difference.

There is a reason Teddy was ranked 30th with his passing game and Keenum's passing game was 10th. Zimmer said it best Case has big balls.
You only seem to make excuses for Teddy.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: dear lord the comments here about teddy are funny. its hard repeating the same bs to these guys. like talking to a wall. 

Are you here just to bag on those who view Teddy as possibly not the answer? We know, you are pro-Teddy....that's cool. I think we are all pro-Teddy the person, he's a great young man. Its Teddy the player with the questions marks about that leg that draws debate and rightly so. 

The answer isn't clear cut, no matter who you might favor for QB. 

I am strongly in Teddy's corner as well,  but I have to agree with this statement and have said so many times.   They all have question marks and likely none more so than Teddy,  but when comparing expected costs, age, stage of development, and about every other factor that I can come up with... Teddy in purple next year competing for the starting job makes the most sense to me... we all need to keep an open mind on this,  but we need to keep our eyes open as well.  some of the arguments are bordering on the ridiculous both for and against every QB in play. 

I think we all love Teddy.  Perhaps in a little bit healthier way than some others....    

There is little doubt Teddy has the biggest upside but he also has the most to prove. Sam is a former #1 pick with a legendary arm who did some good things while wearing purple.  Case had a heck of year last year and Teddy shows a lot of promise.  But promise isnt the same as having actually done it.

We all got some chicken skin when the crowd roared when Teddy took the field.  Although most of us dont cling to that moment in the wee hours of the night.

ok troll.   making comments about peoples sexuality great way to engage in adult conversation.  

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Poiple" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Ilovebigtd's" said: dear lord the comments here about teddy are funny. its hard repeating the same bs to these guys. like talking to a wall. 

Are you here just to bag on those who view Teddy as possibly not the answer? We know, you are pro-Teddy....that's cool. I think we are all pro-Teddy the person, he's a great young man. Its Teddy the player with the questions marks about that leg that draws debate and rightly so. 

The answer isn't clear cut, no matter who you might favor for QB. 

I am strongly in Teddy's corner as well,  but I have to agree with this statement and have said so many times.   They all have question marks and likely none more so than Teddy,  but when comparing expected costs, age, stage of development, and about every other factor that I can come up with... Teddy in purple next year competing for the starting job makes the most sense to me... we all need to keep an open mind on this,  but we need to keep our eyes open as well.  some of the arguments are bordering on the ridiculous both for and against every QB in play. 

I think we all love Teddy.  Perhaps in a little bit healthier way than some others....    

There is little doubt Teddy has the biggest upside but he also has the most to prove. Sam is a former #1 pick with a legendary arm who did some good things while wearing purple.  Case had a heck of year last year and Teddy shows a lot of promise.  But promise isnt the same as having actually done it.

We all got some chicken skin when the crowd roared when Teddy took the field.  Although most of us dont cling to that moment in the wee hours of the night.

ok troll.   making comments about peoples sexuality great way to engage in adult conversation.  

I probably should have only selected the OP as the comment was primarily for his benefit.  But if it touches a nerve?.......

@"greediron" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Lol, CJohnson and Wallace started ahead of Diggs and Thielen at that stage in their career.  So yeah, the WRs were comparable.  /sarcasm

Just watch the video.  What struck me was the number of drops.  It wasn't Diggs and Thielen because they weren't on the field most of the time.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

if you cant see the differences in the 2 offenses and those 2 players (specifically Diggs and Theilen) from 2015 to 2017 then there is no point in trying to have a football discussion with you.   the talking points have been made time and time again and if you refuse to use common sense and your eyes than no amount of discourse will make a difference.

There is a reason Teddy was ranked 30th with his passing game and Keenum's passing game was 10th. Zimmer said it best Case has big balls.
You only seem to make excuses for Teddy.

yep,  done,  have a nice day.

@"Poiple" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

if you cant see the differences in the 2 offenses and those 2 players (specifically Diggs and Theilen) from 2015 to 2017 then there is no point in trying to have a football discussion with you.   the talking points have been made time and time again and if you refuse to use common sense and your eyes than no amount of discourse will make a difference.

There is a reason Teddy was ranked 30th with his passing game and Keenum's passing game was 10th. Zimmer said it best Case has big balls.
You only seem to make excuses for Teddy.

Come on Norse,  you arent that siff necked that you cant admit that although the revievers were on the roster they were just starting out and had a ways to go before they would emerge as they have.
Also our line was a mess back then.  This last year was a surprisngly HUGE leap forward in the O lines ability.   
We all have to admit that whoever was behind the helm would have benefited as Diggs, Theilen and the O line matured.

@"Norse" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

Is that a joke? Look, there are good points to made on both sides of this debate. This isn't one of them.  

Why would it be a joke both QB's having almost the same recievers?

@"IDVikingfan" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

Is that a joke? Look, there are good points to made on both sides of this debate. This isn't one of them.  

Why would it be a joke both QB's having almost the same recievers?

Do you really think the ST player Adam Theilen in 2015 equals the All Pro receiver in 2017?  Hardly. Do you really think Diggs has made zero improvement since his rookie year?  You have to agree with no improvement if you say they are the "same".  You're 0 for 2 with your arguement.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MarkSP18" said: The whole problem which I have not seen anyone mention is that this video is from two freaking years and one terrible injury ago.

To assume that Teddy will get back to his old playing form and get better is taking a lot of liberty.

There is not a long list (I cannot find anyone besides maybe a Willis McGahee) who have come back from a similar type injury (not just a couple of ligament tears) and have had success.

This is the entire problem for me.

If the Vikings were still rebuilding then I would be fine with Teddy being put back out there and given a chance to sink or swim.

But this team is ready to win now and looking at the contracts on the team the next 3 years are pretty crucial.

After that some players may be gone or asked to redo their deals (like Griffen or Joseph for example).

RBs cant play at a high level with a good knee brace on... WRs cant either,  QBs are only minimally hindered by such braces historically.  How many QBs have had this injury to begin with?  I dont recall any.   Teddys game isnt based on running,  he is passer first and foremost,  his juking and cutting is so limited that its a non starter to try and bring up history of the injury.   Not to mention,  no nerve damage,  which is rare in itself.  

@"MarkSP18" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MarkSP18" said: The whole problem which I have not seen anyone mention is that this video is from two freaking years and one terrible injury ago.

To assume that Teddy will get back to his old playing form and get better is taking a lot of liberty.

There is not a long list (I cannot find anyone besides maybe a Willis McGahee) who have come back from a similar type injury (not just a couple of ligament tears) and have had success.

This is the entire problem for me.

If the Vikings were still rebuilding then I would be fine with Teddy being put back out there and given a chance to sink or swim.

But this team is ready to win now and looking at the contracts on the team the next 3 years are pretty crucial.

After that some players may be gone or asked to redo their deals (like Griffen or Joseph for example).

RBs cant play at a high level with a good knee brace on... WRs cant either,  QBs are only minimally hindered by such braces historically.  How many QBs have had this injury to begin with?  I dont recall any.   Teddys game isnt based on running,  he is passer first and foremost,  his juking and cutting is so limited that its a non starter to try and bring up history of the injury.   Not to mention,  no nerve damage,  which is rare in itself.  

It is a non starter to bring up history of the injury?  Seriously?

Teddy did in fact move around quite bit prior to the injury.  He certainly was not a statue.

You can dismiss the injury that kept him out for two full seasons as a "non starter" or "nothing to see here" if you want.

It is very worrisome and there is no guarantee how he is going to perform when he gets another chance.

@"TBro" said: For all of the Teddy lovers on this site, PA and Charchian discussed Charch's deep dive into the video on KFAN this morning. His assessment of Teddy's overall mechanics, decision making, arm strength, etc. were not favorable at all. I think several of us are guilty of romanticizing Teddy's game and what he's been through. It was interesting to hear him talk about re-familiarizing himself with his skills and deficiencies since it's been 2 years since he's had any meaningful playing time. When comparing Teddy to Bradford, Keenum, or Cousins, he put him last against every one of them. He likes Teddy, but not as a starter. It's definitely worth a listen on the Podcast. 

He brings in PFF to support his point: "Is Bridgewater a bad deep passer? Pro Football Focus doesn’t seem to think so: they graded Bridgewater as above average in 2015 on passes more than 20 yards downfield. The Deep Ball Project, which reviews and grades every deep pass from every quarterback, doesn’t seem to think so either: they gave Bridgewater a “B” grade based on his 2015 deep ball tape and noted that his deep ball accuracy was 52.6% (ranking 12th of 33 overall)."

What's nuts is that we have folks watching the video that shows ONLY those passes that Teddy is supposed to struggle with and using it to analyze him as an overall QB. That would be like me posting a video of only the kind of passes Case struggles with and making a judgement based on only that.

I wouldn't do that because it would be ridiculous. 

@"IDVikingfan" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Norse" said:

@"Wetlander" said: What I find funny is that Teddy gets ripped for his arm strength and inconsistent deep ball...  yet Case has a weaker arm and arguably had much better WRs to come down with contested catches downfield...  and one gets a free pass and the other doesn't.

Teddy and Case both had these recievers. Diggs Thielen wright Rudy  Case helped our receivers to get good numbers...Teddy couldn't achieve that.

Wright had better numbers with Teddy than Case...  Diggs was a rookie that only started 13 games...  Thielen was a special teams player...  and Rudy caught a couple more TDs with Case but had basically the same amount of targets, receptions, and yards.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing how the two situations are even remotely similar.

Both QB's had basically the same recievers. Except Teddy had Wallace who left and had a 1000 yard season with his next team.

Is that a joke? Look, there are good points to made on both sides of this debate. This isn't one of them.  

Why would it be a joke both QB's having almost the same recievers?

Do you really think the ST player Adam Theilen in 2015 equals the All Pro receiver in 2017?  Hardly.
Do you really think Diggs has made zero improvement since his rookie year?  You have to agree with no improvement if you say they are the "same".  You're 0 for 2 with your arguement.

Teddy Long... ?  ;) B)

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"TBro" said: For all of the Teddy lovers on this site, PA and Charchian discussed Charch's deep dive into the video on KFAN this morning. His assessment of Teddy's overall mechanics, decision making, arm strength, etc. were not favorable at all. I think several of us are guilty of romanticizing Teddy's game and what he's been through. It was interesting to hear him talk about re-familiarizing himself with his skills and deficiencies since it's been 2 years since he's had any meaningful playing time. When comparing Teddy to Bradford, Keenum, or Cousins, he put him last against every one of them. He likes Teddy, but not as a starter. It's definitely worth a listen on the Podcast. 

That's hardly fair. As @NodakViking mentioned above, this is a video that is an attempt to dispel the notion that Teddy is a poor deep ball thrower. 

He brings in PFF to support his point: "Is Bridgewater a bad deep passer? Pro Football Focus doesn’t seem to think so: they graded Bridgewater as above average in 2015 on passes more than 20 yards downfield. The Deep Ball Project, which reviews and grades every deep pass from every quarterback, doesn’t seem to think so either: they gave Bridgewater a “B” grade based on his 2015 deep ball tape and noted that his deep ball accuracy was 52.6% (ranking 12th of 33 overall)."

What's nuts is that we have folks watching the video that shows ONLY those passes that Teddy is supposed to struggle with and using it to analyze him as an overall QB. That would be like me posting a video of only the kind of passes Case struggles with and making a judgement based on only that.

I wouldn't do that because it would be ridiculous.