State of the MN Vikings Franchise

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"FSUVike" said: Case looks for Adam and Diggs on every play unless Shurmer specifically calls for the play to go to someone else.

I don't really blame him, but the really good QBs don't lock.onto one or two guys every play. Well, Ben does sometimes with Brown, but can you blame him either? 

More cerebral guys will read the Defense and adjust to the WR they feel has the best chance to get open based on what they are seeing.  They also know that helps open things up more because it forces the Defense to react to your #3 and #4 WRs killing their Nickel and Dime CBs.

That's another knock against both Case and Teddy. They're both guys who go with the called play and rarely audible into anything else. Sure, both will go through progressions post-snap when the primary read is covered. But they're not guys who beat you pre-snap.

I want a QB that can read Defenses and audible out of runs into stacked boxes and makes the right decisions to involve more playmakers besides the Big Two.

What you describe is what 1/2 the NFL is still looking for  ;)

But on a more serious note, I do agree that Keenum can get stuck on his reads from time to time. The good thing is that both Diggs and Thielen get good seperation and can give him a target rather quickly. 

The DL will be a hot topic of discussion. I feel like we need one more pass rusher to rotate in. I was hoping that Weatherly or Bowers would be it, but Weatherly was more of a base end and Bowers barely got any chances. Maybe Bowers takes on a bigger role next year, but I would target another pass rusher anywhere in the 1st four rounds.

I agree that 3T/UT is a huge need. The ability to generate quick pressure up the middle is the best way to stop quick passing attacks like Brees and Foles and we simply didn't have the pieces to do this. I think a healthy Floyd could have done that, but we'll never know. I had hoped that Jaleel Johnson would help with that, but I think that a high draft pick or priority FA signing is a big need. If we can start generating quick pressure up the middle, then that covers one of the few big weaknesses on D.

@"FSUVike" said: See, I think Alex Smith is the kind of player an OC can trust. He's been in several different systems and has usually been allowed to audible.

Any more it seems most plays come in from the sidelines with both a run and pass option based on what the QB srrs the Defense doing. The last few years it just feels like whichever QB was under Center was just going to roll with the initial call.

Give me a guy like Smith who will see Jarius lined up on a scrub or rookie or Floyd or Treadwell having a significant height advantage and take that opportunity vs. always throwing to guys who routinely get double covered.
 

I think Smith is the perfect QB for this team at the right time. I really just wish we would not be in this QB situation every year.

are we the only team to never get a legit franchise QB? we had pepps for a few years but he had moss then shredded his knee. we had/have teddy who i thought was our guy... shredded his knee. how many teams always have a QB? 

@"Caactorvike" said: forgive me if this is a stupid question ( i dont know contract rules like some of you guys!) but if we lose McKinnon or Teddy or Sam are we owed any compensatory picks?  I know we have no contracts with Teddy and Sam.  Can we use a transition tag or something so if they walk we at least get a draft pick as consolation?

When you lose UFA's they are ranked against all of the other UFA's other teams lose. That creates somewhat of a list which is used to calculate comp picks. Whenever you sign a played in UFA it cancels out a similar player you have lost. So for example if you had Matt Kalil leave in 2017 who would have been a 3rd round comp pick and sign Riley Reiff also a 3rd round comp pick, you get none. There are some nuances, but this is high level how it works. 

As for the transition tag, you wouldn't get a comp pick if they signed with another team since you the team opted not to match a prospective deal. If you want a comp pick you're best letting them walk away and not signing anyone. 

@"Neptizzle" said: are we the only team to never get a legit franchise QB? we had pepps for a few years but he had moss then shredded his knee. we had/have teddy who i thought was our guy... shredded his knee. how many teams always have a QB? 

Its the only reason I envy the Packers who've been blessed with 2 HOF QB's in a row & over 25 years. 

@"FSUVike" said:

@"Neptizzle" said: Ive never been a huge Smith fan, but the guy is a trustworthy winner. Put him in with our D and we win 12-13 games while Sloter develops or we draft our guy. I still love Teddy, but is his knee going to make it? With how open our guys ALWAYS are, get an accurate, safe passer in here who can hit one or two over the top a game, give us 1 more OL in the draft to allow Hill to move back to the bench and suddenly our O is really good. Get the replacement 3DT and suddenly we are right back here next year but talking about our win.

We're on the same page, friend. Not liking the DT FA Class, though. Poe and Richardson are the best but will want monster deals and seem to play better in contract years.

@"medaille" said: What's the deal with Floyd and Treadwell having so little production?  You'd think that between the 2 of them, they'd be able to stumble into something that resembles an NFL receiver, but combined they have less than 280 yards.  Is there something in our scheme or something in Case that is inhibiting them?  Floyd has had multiple years hovering around 1000 yds, so it’s not like he’s completely worthless.  I would hope that any FA X receiver we bring in would at least be able to get at least 500 yards.

I think the Vikings have lusted after this idea of the "X receiver" so long, dreaming of someone who fits a physical prototype, and yet they get the most from other receivers. I hope the next OC declares Jarius the #3 until someone takes the job through better play, not draft expectation.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

and what are the odds that Teddy wants to stay as a back up,  or that Smith would come here if he has to compete with Teddy?  They both want to be the #1 and both are likely not wanting to share snaps as Teddy needs all he can get to shake the rust off and any FA QB would want all they could get in a new system.  I think Teddy will draw interest from a few teams that would have more attractive paths to the #1 spot than battling Smith in Minny.   I wish we really knew how ready Teddy was to return.  I can over look that little glimpse we saw against the bengals,  just over amped,  but just how ready is he to have guys flying around that knee?

Smith makes so much sense for all the reasons FSU and others cited, and because his age (about to turn 34) means he would not be a Favre-esque all-in one year shot (which would be the case with Brees). Smith could QB this team for the next 5 years. I'm just wondering about his contract status...spotrac says there is an option out before the 2018 season, so can he opt out or is it the team's option?

@Geoff Nichols...I'd prefer him over Murray if I had to choose who to pay equal dollar amounts to. He probably will have the opportunity to get a larger role. But in Jet's mind if the Vikings move on from Murray is that a big enough role? Its all subjective. 

In a vacuum I'd probably agree. But considering Cook is coming back, I'd rather pair him with Murray than Jet. 

@"MaroonBells" said: @Geoff Nichols...I'd prefer him over Murray if I had to choose who to pay equal dollar amounts to. He probably will have the opportunity to get a larger role. But in Jet's mind if the Vikings move on from Murray is that a big enough role? Its all subjective. 

In a vacuum I'd probably agree. But considering Cook is coming back, I'd rather pair him with Murray than Jet. 

@"MaroonBells" said: @Geoff Nichols...I'd prefer him over Murray if I had to choose who to pay equal dollar amounts to. He probably will have the opportunity to get a larger role. But in Jet's mind if the Vikings move on from Murray is that a big enough role? Its all subjective. 

In a vacuum I'd probably agree. But considering Cook is coming back, I'd rather pair him with Murray than Jet. 

@"Jor-El" said:

@"medaille" said: What's the deal with Floyd and Treadwell having so little production?  You'd think that between the 2 of them, they'd be able to stumble into something that resembles an NFL receiver, but combined they have less than 280 yards.  Is there something in our scheme or something in Case that is inhibiting them?  Floyd has had multiple years hovering around 1000 yds, so it’s not like he’s completely worthless.  I would hope that any FA X receiver we bring in would at least be able to get at least 500 yards.

But even with the "limited opportunities behind Diggs/Thielen", long-overlooked Jarius Wright ultimately produced better than those highly-touted former #1 picks. I know Wright has different skills, and someone is bound to throw out a plug about Treadwell's amazing blocking value, but didn't Treadwell get at least 2 starts when Diggs was hurt?

I think the Vikings have lusted after this idea of the "X receiver" so long, dreaming of someone who fits a physical prototype, and yet they get the most from other receivers. I hope the next OC declares Jarius the #3 until someone takes the job through better play, not draft expectation.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

and what are the odds that Teddy wants to stay as a back up,  or that Smith would come here if he has to compete with Teddy?  They both want to be the #1 and both are likely not wanting to share snaps as Teddy needs all he can get to shake the rust off and any FA QB would want all they could get in a new system.  I think Teddy will draw interest from a few teams that would have more attractive paths to the #1 spot than battling Smith in Minny.   I wish we really knew how ready Teddy was to return.  I can over look that little glimpse we saw against the bengals,  just over amped,  but just how ready is he to have guys flying around that knee?

I agree - if we trade for Alex Smith (an idea I really like), I think the other 3 veteran QBs would all leave, or try to. Maybe one of them will be disappointed by the free agent offers and stay here as Smith's backup. But Bridgewater is too young to sit behind Smith for 4 years. If his knee is healthy (yes, huge IF), I think another team will sign him and offer a chance to compete. He would love to play in Miami, and they might have an open competition.

Smith makes so much sense for all the reasons FSU and others cited, and because his age (about to turn 34) means he would not be a Favre-esque all-in one year shot (which would be the case with Brees). Smith could QB this team for the next 5 years. I'm just wondering about his contract status...spotrac says there is an option out before the 2018 season, so can he opt out or is it the team's option?

Jor El both Thielen and Diggs get snaps out of the slot. How can Jarius be the #3 if he pretty much only plays out of the slot? You'd be taking reps away in the slot for your two best Receivers.

Whomever plays in the X spot will get more looks if the QB isn't Case. Don't care if it's Treadwell or someone else, but it ain't gonna be Wright.

Geoff, I can't see Rick going after Richardson. As you pointed out his production has dropped the last few years and there's character concerns.

The 3T is unfortunately going to need to be addressed with a high round pick, IMO,

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: @Geoff Nichols...I'd prefer him over Murray if I had to choose who to pay equal dollar amounts to. He probably will have the opportunity to get a larger role. But in Jet's mind if the Vikings move on from Murray is that a big enough role? Its all subjective. 

In a vacuum I'd probably agree. But considering Cook is coming back, I'd rather pair him with Murray than Jet. 

I think we need to look at keeping Jet ( I dont think it happens) in that him and Cook are more similar in playing styles,  if Cook were to go down again it would be nice to keep some sort of continuity to the running game.   However,  I think we can likely find a decent RB in the draft to complement Cook or to act as a similar style back up.  when Cook is on,  he will eat about 80% of the RB snaps so that doesnt leave much for a #3 guy if we do find a short yardage specialist type to run with Cook.

@"FSUVike" said: Jor El both Thielen and Diggs get snaps out of the slot. How can Jarius be the #3 if he pretty much only plays out of the slot? You'd be taking reps away in the slot for your two best Receivers.

Whomever plays in the X spot will get more looks if the QB isn't Case. Don't care if it's Treadwell or someone else, but it ain't gonna be Wright.

Geoff, I can't see Rick going after Richardson. As you pointed out his production has dropped the last few years and there's character concerns.

The 3T is unfortunately going to need to be addressed with a high round pick, IMO,

As for Richardson, the Vikings really liked him pre-draft that year. They've shown a liking to grab those players though free agency when they've had the chance. But I still think it'd be a bit of a dream scenario. 

I think either way, the Vikings should toll Bridgewaters contract - unless we plan to have him be our starter and sign him to a reasonable contract.  He will be an asset we can trade.  If we are going to lose him anyway, might as well get something sooner out of him than a comp pick. At worst with that contract I think you could get a 3rd round draft pick.  I think we are going to need some more ammo to add some more assets to this team.  

@"Kmerry82" said: I think either way, the Vikings should toll Bridgewaters contract - unless we plan to have him be our starter and sign him to a reasonable contract.  He will be an asset we can trade.  If we are going to lose him anyway, might as well get something sooner out of him than a comp pick. At worst with that contract I think you could get a 3rd round draft pick.  I think we are going to need some more ammo to add some more assets to this team.  

Also in the hypothetical case they were able to toll the contract, he has more value to the Vikings than anyone else at this point. Nobody is going to deal a 3rd round pick for an unknown commodity on a one year deal. The ability to toll would make it more practical to tag Case at $23M though since you'd be able to retain two potential starters for roughly $25M. 

Thanks again Geoff...Good read!!