Case is now the future

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: I think Case is the immediate future if he doesn't handcuff the cap.  15 mill or so over the next 2 to 3 years while Sloter develops and another prospect is added.  We will likely need another vet for next season though.

I'm all for a Keenum-Sloter type scenario if its true what Guru says about Minnesota LOVING Kyle Sloter. Get Sloter to start in 19' or 20'.

That's the same mistake that the Broncos made with Simien. Now their super bowl window is closed. Although the Vikings love Sloter I would never pencil him in as a future starter until he proves something in a live game or preseason scenario. 

@"twgerber" said: Not yet. Don't forget that horrid Int.     

yep he has a tendency to throw some up for grabs.

Bottom line is that we all want Case to keep it going two more games. But we're going to have to play better on offense AND defense than we played yesterday if we want to avoid 0-5.

As far as Case goes, stay tuned, it's going to be one crazy off season. He'll get one helluva pay raise, but my gut says that fans and media are much higher on Case than NFL decision makers.

Yes, two more games.  Hopefully this was a sobering gut check for Case and the entire team.  They gotta play better than that. 

Bradford being active and Teddy inactive brings up a whole new round of speculation, but that can wait.  Onto Philly.  Hopefully they win a bit more convincingly so all the Viking fans can be around to watch the Super Bowl.  No more heart stopping finishes.

need to get up early and stay there,  we dont want to be battling a road crowd in a tight game in the 4th.

To get back to the topic at hand, I still think it is too soon to commit to any of the 3 QB's on the roster. When it comes to Keenum, you'd like to keep him but there are two significant hurdles. The first is how effective would he be without Shurmur who'll not be back? The answer is probably somewhere in the middle between what he showed with the Rams and how he performed this season. That's not a shot at Keenum, but it makes it that much more difficult to pin down a fair value. The second is Keenum's contract demands. Keenum and his reps know that he'll be in demand given the leagues QB shortage. That'll give them the ability to ask for guarantees that will last into the second year of a new contract. Other QB needy teams may take that risk, but can the Vikings with massive deals upcoming for Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs? The short-term option would be to franchise tag Keenum for roughly $23M, giving the Vikings an out after a single season. The downside is the price tag makes it more difficult to retain another QB currently on the roster outside of Sloter. 

The alternative would be shorter and more team friendly extensions for either Bradford and or Bridgewater. The Vikings are still high on Bridgewater and although the NFL has a shot-term memory, Bradford had a strong 2016 and started 2017 out hot. Bradford is unarguably a better QB than Keenum when healthy. For Bridgewater, he is still the unknown. Due to market pressure there would be the potential to retain both. According to sources, this is the way the Vikings are leaning at this time. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: To get back to the topic at hand, I still think it is too soon to commit to any of the 3 QB's on the roster. When it comes to Keenum, you'd like to keep him but there are two significant hurdles. The first is how effective would he be without Shurmur who'll not be back? The answer is probably somewhere in the middle between what he showed with the Rams and how he performed this season. That's not a shot at Keenum, but it makes it that much more difficult to pin down a fair value. The second is Keenum's contract demands. Keenum and his reps know that he'll be in demand given the leagues QB shortage. That'll give them the ability to ask for guarantees that will last into the second year of a new contract. Other QB needy teams may take that risk, but can the Vikings with massive deals upcoming for Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs? The short-term option would be to franchise tag Keenum for roughly $23M, giving the Vikings an out after a single season. The downside is the price tag makes it more difficult to retain another QB currently on the roster outside of Sloter. 

The alternative would be shorter and more team friendly extensions for either Bradford and or Bridgewater. The Vikings are still high on Bridgewater and although the NFL has a shot-term memory, Bradford had a strong 2016 and started 2017 out hot. Bradford is unarguably a better QB than Keenum when healthy. For Bridgewater, he is still the unknown. Due to market pressure there would be the potential to retain both. According to sources, this is the way the Vikings are leaning at this time. 

Man I sure hope that the sources are wrong or at least the Vikings take a sot at Kirk Cousins.  The window for this defense is NOW.  Probably at least 2 to 3 more years of being one of the best, if not the best defense in the NFL.  Injury will play a huge part and contracts also will come into play.

But the Vikings cannot skimp on the QB position now.  It is just wasting the talents of the defense.  If they cannot get Cousins then I would likely lean towards giving Case 20 mil per year for at least 2 years.  I doubt that Teddy would willingly re-sign for around 5 to 7 mil but maybe he might if he is not getting better offers elsewhere.

I do not know what to think about Bradford because his knee "soreness" or whatever sure gives an uneasy feeling.

It's going to be a tough decision for Spielman and company and it will be one that determines the fate of this team for the next few years. 

This team is built to win now.  You get one more guard (likely to replace Berger), another defensive tackle, another corner and continue to build depth through the draft and they should be able to sign a Cousins and give out large deals to Diggs, Hunter, Kendricks, and Barr.

@"greediron" said: Bradford being active and Teddy inactive brings up a whole new round of speculation, but that can wait.  Onto Philly.  Hopefully they win a bit more convincingly so all the Viking fans can be around to watch the Super Bowl.  No more heart stopping finishes.

I mean we can speculate a hundred different things. Maybe Teddy was complaining about not getting any playing time and the coaches didn't want the distraction. Maybe the Vikings are considering tolling his contract, despite saying they wouldn't. Maybe there were things in practice (maybe even the knee) that gave them concerns. But I doubt it's any of those things. 

As is usual with these things, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. And that's that they thought Bradford, with his experience and arm talent, gave them a better chance to win as both a sideline mentor to Case, and as a guy they could turn to confidently if Keenum's game went south. 

Admittedly I didn't read much of this thread but my .02.

Bridgewater will one day be a force to be reckoned with... but that's my personal opinion.

We know what we have in Bradford: a GREAT QB who can't shake the injury bug. But when he's healthy, he's a top 5 QB.

I'll hesitate to talk shit on Keenum because I currently love the guy, but he's a serviceable guy in a great offense. I actually think he can still grow a bit more, but...

Whatever. Let's enjoy yesterday and the fact that next Sunday we all get to go crazy again.

@"KingBash" said: Admittedly I didn't read much of this thread but my .02.

Bridgewater will one day be a force to be reckoned with... but that's my personal opinion.

We know what we have in Bradford: a GREAT QB who can't shake the injury bug. But when he's healthy, he's a top 5 QB.

I'll hesitate to talk shit on Keenum because I currently love the guy, but he's a serviceable guy in a great offense. I actually think he can still grow a bit more, but...

Whatever. Let's enjoy yesterday and the fact that next Sunday we all get to go crazy again.

Also, I hear what Geoff says about not signing anyone now but I dont quite agree with that philosophy either.
Id like to see them sign Keenum ASAP and also Bradford for the reasons you mention.  Also as insurance if Keenum struggles under a new coordinator.  I think he will be just fine.  His brand of gutsy football plays well with most coordinators.  He is accurate enough, athletic and plays all out to win.  
I will take that anyday.

I like all 3 QBs.  I don’t
think it’s been said, but my gut says that Bradford just needed his knee
cleaned out rather than having arthritis or something like that.  If that’s the case, I don’t think teams would
punish him too much for that.  If it’s arthritis
or something permanent, I think he’s destined for short term situations or
backup duty.  Bridgewater is my favorite
of the 3 longterm as I think he blends the best of Case and Bradford, but just
hasn’t shown it yet.  I don’t think his
inactivation changes that, it’s just that Bradford has so much more experience
in this system and with Shurmur right now, so it makes sense for him to be the
backup to Case right now.  Case has a lot
of moxie and moves really well from pressure. 
I think they are all smart QBs. 
They all can read defenses.  They
all generally make the right decisions. 
They are all tough.  These are the
toughest traits to find in a QB.  I think
our offense is a little over-rated right now. 
The playcalling is making things easier on everyone, and I’m not sure
that whoever comes after Shurmur is going to be able to replicate this success,
but hopefully we’ll be able to upgrade our OLine again after this offseason, so
that it’s less dependent on Shurmur, Thielen, and Diggs.

A lot of people are saying that we should keep Case and
Bridgewater and that Bradford is the odd man out due to his knee.  I don’t see that as a likely
possibility.  Bridgewater wants to start
so bad.  I think he’ll go wherever a
starting job shows itself or where he can likely outcompete a young QB.  Bradford on the other hand, seems to be the
one most likely to accept a backup position depending on his knee situation.  The best case situation that I can see is
keeping either Case or Bridgewater, defining them the starter, and keeping
Bradford as a backup if he’s willing to do that.
I think a lot of the magic Case has right now is more
Vikings related.  I think we’re charmed
this year and that we’re riding destiny right now.  I’m not sure how to breakdown how much is due
Case’s skill and how much is due to luck, or charm or magic.  Skill lasts and makes it’s own luck, but often
luck just happens and you just need to be happy it happened to you.  I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision. 

@"medaille" said: I like all 3 QBs.  I don’t think it’s been said, but my gut says that Bradford just needed his knee cleaned out rather than having arthritis or something like that.  If that’s the case, I don’t think teams would punish him too much for that.  If it’s arthritis or something permanent, I think he’s destined for short term situations or backup duty.  Bridgewater is my favorite of the 3 longterm as I think he blends the best of Case and Bradford, but just hasn’t shown it yet.  I don’t think his inactivation changes that, it’s just that Bradford has so much more experience in this system and with Shurmur right now, so it makes sense for him to be the backup to Case right now.  Case has a lot of moxie and moves really well from pressure.  I think they are all smart QBs.  They all can read defenses.  They all generally make the right decisions.  They are all tough.  These are the toughest traits to find in a QB.  I think our offense is a little over-rated right now.  The playcalling is making things easier on everyone, and I’m not sure that whoever comes after Shurmur is going to be able to replicate this success, but hopefully we’ll be able to upgrade our OLine again after this offseason, so that it’s less dependent on Shurmur, Thielen, and Diggs.

A lot of people are saying that we should keep Case and
Bridgewater and that Bradford is the odd man out due to his knee.  I don’t see that as a likely
possibility.  Bridgewater wants to start
so bad.  I think he’ll go wherever a
starting job shows itself or where he can likely outcompete a young QB.  Bradford on the other hand, seems to be the
one most likely to accept a backup position depending on his knee situation.  The best case situation that I can see is
keeping either Case or Bridgewater, defining them the starter, and keeping
Bradford as a backup if he’s willing to do that.
I think a lot of the magic Case has right now is more
Vikings related.  I think we’re charmed
this year and that we’re riding destiny right now.  I’m not sure how to breakdown how much is due
Case’s skill and how much is due to luck, or charm or magic.  Skill lasts and makes it’s own luck, but often
luck just happens and you just need to be happy it happened to you.  I’m glad I don’t have to make this decision. 

Bradford is clearly the best of the bunch and the most likely to do well in the short term, regardless of OC. If he's healthy, he's an elite QB. He could appeal to a team like the Jags or Broncos or Cards who might think they're a QB away.

I think Keenum has played himself into a starting opportunity and the contract that goes with it, but I really would be surprised if it's in Minnesota. Over the last several weeks where his really great throws seem to have caught up to his really bad throws, I've become convinced that he probably can be a long-term starting QB. And not a half bad one. But outside of Shurmur's offense, and those two miraculous receivers, it's hard to see him repeating what he's done this year.

Like you, I think the most likely to have us kicking ourselves 3, 4 years down the road if we let him go? #5. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"A1Janitor" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"A1Janitor" said: LMAO ignorance of some?

Go fuck yourself.   Who makes you smarter?

Let's go back the past month and look at who thinks Teddy is better than Case and should be our qb.  

Does it make you feel better to tell another VIKING fan to fuck off???  Now if he was a Packer/Saint/Seachicken fan I could see but geez why can't we all just have a debate without going personal on it.

And no you aren't the only guilty.  But telling someone to fuck off is going to get the thread closed. 

I will he goddamned if anyone becomes arrogant about how fucking smart they are or calls me names ... 

My vikings won with our qb Case Keenum.  He has earned a contract.  I am sorry for the Teddy fans that think Teddy is more accurate (he isn't) or has a better arm (he doesn't).

I agree on Case.  I disagree on turning a competitive thread ugly.  The only reason "you're" smarter is you think you're "right" just as other people are entitled to their own opinion.  Give it a rest.  Enjoy the week.  We're playing the the GD NFCC game against a wounded Eagles team with the chance to play a home SB.  

@"A1Janitor" said: And I am not a Case homer.  I think Sam is our best qb.  And I think Teddy is done. 

The Bradford activation and Teddy being inactive just makes me wonder. 

Zimmer-schaude.  He loves messing with people and is very secretive in regards to the injury report.  So once Teddy was available of PUP, he was active and Zimmer started pimping him.  Wouldn't rule out starting him over Case and the media goes crazy with it keeping the story running for weeks upon weeks.  (insert here that even a gimpy, rusty Teddy is a better option that a RAW Sloter)  Zimmer likely felt the team was vulnerable with no real backup to Case.  Bradford was always week to week until Teddy was back and then he was put on temp IR.

Teddy even gets a few snaps to bolster the story, but really it is about the emotional return.  Get the butterflies and ovations out of the way.  But Teddy doesn't play again even thought there are possible chances.

Once Bradford is eligible to return, he is activated and elevated to backup. 

So is it possible Teddy wasn't as ready as made out to be, but that was the narrative to protect Case.  If teams knew we didn't have a real backup other than Sloter, there are some that may have tried to take Case out and would have really hurt the team.  If Teddy was almost ready to take over the starting job from Case, I just don't see Bradford over taking him after 1 week of practice.  Yes, Bradford has played in this system, had more starting reps in the system and both being healthy and in shape, Bradford would be the better choice.  But Sam was bone on bone, may never play again, seeking alternative options.

Where that leaves us for next year is so up in the air.

@"medaille" said: A lot of people are saying that we should keep Case and Bridgewater and that Bradford is the odd man out due to his knee.  I don’t see that as a likely possibility.  Bridgewater wants to start so bad.  I think he’ll go wherever a starting job shows itself or where he can likely outcompete a young QB.  Bradford on the other hand, seems to be the one most likely to accept a backup position depending on his knee situation.  The best case situation that I can see is keeping either Case or Bridgewater, defining them the starter, and keeping Bradford as a backup if he’s willing to do that.

Agreed for the reasons you mentioned.  My choice...barring any free agency wheeling and dealing (Cousins, et al)...would be for next season:
Case Keenum, starting QB
Sammy Bradford, backup
Kyle Sloter, 3rd string

@"greediron" said: The Bradford activation and Teddy being inactive just makes me wonder. 

Zimmer-schaude.  He loves messing with people and is very secretive in regards to the injury report.  So once Teddy was available of PUP, he was active and Zimmer started pimping him.  Wouldn't rule out starting him over Case and the media goes crazy with it keeping the story running for weeks upon weeks.  (insert here that even a gimpy, rusty Teddy is a better option that a RAW Sloter)  Zimmer likely felt the team was vulnerable with no real backup to Case.  Bradford was always week to week until Teddy was back and then he was put on temp IR.

Teddy even gets a few snaps to bolster the story, but really it is about the emotional return.  Get the butterflies and ovations out of the way.  But Teddy doesn't play again even thought there are possible chances.

Once Bradford is eligible to return, he is activated and elevated to backup. 

So is it possible Teddy wasn't as ready as made out to be, but that was the narrative to protect Case.  If teams knew we didn't have a real backup other than Sloter, there are some that may have tried to take Case out and would have really hurt the team.  If Teddy was almost ready to take over the starting job from Case, I just don't see Bradford over taking him after 1 week of practice.  Yes, Bradford has played in this system, had more starting reps in the system and both being healthy and in shape, Bradford would be the better choice.  But Sam was bone on bone, may never play again, seeking alternative options.

Where that leaves us for next year is so up in the air.

But I also suspect that Zimmer, having watched Teddy go in against the Bengals all jacked up with the crowd chanting his name, didn't want to put Teddy in a high-pressure situation where that scene could very likely repeat itself. I think Zimmer even mentioned in the past that he wished the crowd wouldn't do that. 

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"A1Janitor" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"A1Janitor" said: LMAO ignorance of some?

Go fuck yourself.   Who makes you smarter?

Let's go back the past month and look at who thinks Teddy is better than Case and should be our qb.  

Does it make you feel better to tell another VIKING fan to fuck off???  Now if he was a Packer/Saint/Seachicken fan I could see but geez why can't we all just have a debate without going personal on it.

And no you aren't the only guilty.  But telling someone to fuck off is going to get the thread closed. 

I will he goddamned if anyone becomes arrogant about how fucking smart they are or calls me names ... 

My vikings won with our qb Case Keenum.  He has earned a contract.  I am sorry for the Teddy fans that think Teddy is more accurate (he isn't) or has a better arm (he doesn't).

I agree on Case.  I disagree on turning a competitive thread ugly.  The only reason "you're" smarter is you think you're "right" just as other people are entitled to their own opinion.  Give it a rest.  Enjoy the week.  We're playing the the GD NFCC game against a wounded Eagles team with the chance to play a home SB.  

post of the decade right there. 

@"Ralphie" said:

@"medaille" said: A lot of people are saying that we should keep Case and Bridgewater and that Bradford is the odd man out due to his knee.  I don’t see that as a likely possibility.  Bridgewater wants to start so bad.  I think he’ll go wherever a starting job shows itself or where he can likely outcompete a young QB.  Bradford on the other hand, seems to be the one most likely to accept a backup position depending on his knee situation.  The best case situation that I can see is keeping either Case or Bridgewater, defining them the starter, and keeping Bradford as a backup if he’s willing to do that.

Agreed for the reasons you mentioned.  My choice...barring any free agency wheeling and dealing (Cousins, et al)...would be for next season:
Case Keenum, starting QB
Sammy Bradford, backup
Kyle Sloter, 3rd string