Position change for Treadwell?

@"StickyBun" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

(@"StickyBun" said:

@"FSUVike" said: So much angst over the #3 WR position for a 10-2 team. Of course, it's the Vikings. We'll find things to worry about after a Super Bowl win because that's how we are hardwired.

The guy was the #23 selection in round 1 of the Draft.....the angst is it was a wasted pick. Its not even debatable. A very nice mitigation of this is that an UDFA and a 5th rounder are one of the top WR duos in the league. 

But lets call it what it is: a bust. 

Half of all 1st Round picks are busts. Yet we spend as much time talking about this dude as we do the Vikings amazing season. Hell, Tom even felt the need to take a shot at him in his post-game write up.

Floyd, Patterson, Kalil, maybe Waynes. Busts happen, the team is still 10-2. Get over it.

Ha, Tom is just calling it like it is! ;)

He's actually not talked about much at all because the dude is invisible. It just seems the few times the guy is brought up, we have those that feel the need to take up for the guy....why, I have no idea. And with such gusto! He sucks and there is no spin other than fake news to say he doesn't. Like I mentioned, the team can fade this bust because they knocked it out of the park with Thielen and Diggs. 

@"SmashmouthD" said:

@"FSUVike" said: So much angst over the #3 WR position for a 10-2 team. Of course, it's the Vikings. We'll find things to worry about after a Super Bowl win because that's how we are hardwired.

Angst?!?  There's no angst.  No angst.  (Well, no more than the usual amount of angst... ;) )

I just want us to find a way for Treadwell to be useful to this team.

It might not be a good idea, and a position change wouldn't happen in-season.  The fact is that he's worked hard, seems like a good person -- but can't get it done.  We've seen what he can do, and it isn't enough to get him on the field.

I'd rather have Wright OR Floyd on the field than him.  And maybe Coley.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

All these arguments tell me is that we are DEEP at WR a position that we were lucky to have one serviceable guy in the past.

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

Wright lines up all over the field, as do Thielen and Diggs.  You can't use Treadwell's shortcomings at WR to just summarily dismiss Wright's production.

And apparently the Vikings are finally catching on as well.  LT's snaps have been cut roughly in half since the bye week.

Pre-bye week:   39.38 snaps/gm
Post-bye week: 20.25 snaps/gm

Pre-bye week:   22.375 pts/week
Post-bye week: 26.5 pts/week

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said:

@"Tom Moore" said:

i suspect we will see Floyd more very soon

And watch him keep getting a reception or two (if he's lucky) a game?  There just aren't many targets for a third WR on this team with Thielen, Diggs, Rudy, and our RBs gobbling up 80% of the targets.
The Vikings have 404 pass attempts this season, which comes out to about 33 passing attempts per game.  Here is a break down of how those targets are allocated on the team:
Targets
Thielen - 112 (27.7 %)
Diggs - 65 (16.1 %)
Rudolph - 70 (17.3 %)
McKinnon - 54 (13.4 %)
Those are the top 4 leaders in targets per game...  between Thielen, Diggs, Rudolph, and McKinnon they are getting 75% of the team's targets.
That leaves about 8 targets per game to split between Wright, Treadwell, Floyd, Morgan, Murray, and Ham.  How are these guys supposed to produce with only a target or two each game?  It's hard to put up stats without opportunities.
Why aren't there topics ripping Floyd for being basically invisible all season?  I mean this is a guy that many fans here had pegged as a legit weapon in the passing attack and said he would surpass Treadwell as the team's 3rd WR?  10 targets in 7 games?  8 receptions for 75 yards and NO TOUCHDOWNS?  Where is the outrage?  The guy is a bigger bust than Treadwell...
*devil face*

Or as FSU so succinctly calls it: CONTEXT. 

Fine, here's some context.  First off, I think we can all agree that Floyd was looked at as a high-risk, high-reward type player, but at the same time, he's only been on the field for 105 snaps, so 8 catches for 75 yards isn't that bad (he's well ahead of LT's pace for instance).  And very little was spent on him ($1.4 million), it's not like he cost us the 23rd pick of the draft.

For comparison, here are the stats for our other WRs this year.

Michael Floyd:        105 snaps, 8 catches, 75 yards, 0 TDs
Jarius Wright:         190 snaps, 14 catches, 166 yards, 2 TDs
Laquon Treadwell:  396 snaps, 15 catches, 161 yards, 0 TDs

It's not so much about bashing Treadwell, it's more about seeing guys that are performing a lot better and not getting even half the playing time that LT is.  If your eyes tell you that Treadwell is the 3rd best WR on the team and you think he should be #3 on the team in snaps, then I don't know what else to say.

And to those who say that he just needs more time, I disagree, but even so, he should then be the #4 or #5 WR and learn the pro game and earn his spot back on the field, not have it handed to him at the expense of having better WRs sitting on the bench.

EVIDENCE.

Wright doesn't play the same position as Treadwell, so that evidence is inadmissible.  Floyd has been hurt and with his 4 game vacation has never surpassed Treadwell.  So please tell me how Coley is somehow better than Treadwell and should be getting his snaps.  And IIRC, Coley is more of a Diggs type, not a big bodied X WR.

So he isn't getting the targets, but as Wetlander points out, after the top 4, there aren't many to go around. And if this offense isn't doing enough to satisfy us, what exactly would you change? 

Atlanta played more outside coverage and took away Thielen and Diggs.  So Rudy had a big game and so did our RBs.  The game plan was to run the ball and target the middle of the field.  Treadwell and Wright both made huge 3rd down conversions.  I would say, they caught what was thrown to them and made the 1st down, helping the team win the game. That satisfies me.  If a 2nd year WR isn't dominating right now, but Diggs and Thielen are, that is good enough. 

Wright lines up all over the field, as do Thielen and Diggs.  You can't use Treadwell's shortcomings at WR to just summarily dismiss Wright's production.

And apparently the Vikings are finally catching on as well.  LT's snaps have been cut roughly in half since the bye week.

Pre-bye week:   39.38 snaps/gm
Post-bye week: 20.25 snaps/gm

Pre-bye week:   22.375 pts/week
Post-bye week: 26.5 pts/week

Diggs missed a couple games before the bye week so LT went to the #2 guy,  his snaps were going to be up.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Diggs missed a couple games before the bye week so LT went to the #2 guy,  his snaps were going to be up.

Funny how these same coaches that must have seen the light, still give him the lions share of the non-Diggs/Thielen snaps.

@"greediron" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Diggs missed a couple games before the bye week so LT went to the #2 guy,  his snaps were going to be up.

Floyd was also out for 4 games and hurt for a couple of others.  Stats can be tortured to say whatever someone wants them to say. 

Funny how these same coaches that must have seen the light, still give him the lions share of the non-Diggs/Thielen snaps.

I love Wright. I think even though his role is limited he's an important piece in our passing game. Throughout his career the guy has made some very clutch plays. He gets open and he can play inside and outside. So yeah, I actually would like to see him get a couple more bones thrown his way over Treadwell or anybody else not named Thielen and Diggs.

Measurements, as listed on team pages

Treadwell    6'2", 215
Rudolph      6'6",265
Bell              6'4", 252
Jimmy Graham  6'7", 265 (but I bet he's lighter...)

Checked a couple of other rosters, and the lightest TE I could find was like 240.  So I'm gonna say:  no, Treadwell can't be a TE.

His game isn't speed. It's gotta be quickness and suddenness and winning contested catches.  If he can't do those things, then he's not going to see the field much.

You'd have to play him like Shannon Sharpe...flex him...move him...H-B...if he could carry 235lbs and not lose any speed..

@"SmashmouthD" said: Measurements, as listed on team pages

Treadwell    6'2", 215
Rudolph      6'6",265
Bell              6'4", 252
Jimmy Graham  6'7", 265 (but I bet he's lighter...)

Checked a couple of other rosters, and the lightest TE I could find was like 240.  So I'm gonna say:  no, Treadwell can't be a TE.

His game isn't speed. It's gotta be quickness and suddenness and winning contested catches.  If he can't do those things, then he's not going to see the field much.

I don't think anyone has mentioned that- MAYBE- the reason that LT is on the field as much as he is... is because he's the best run-blocker among all the WRs (after, maybe, Thielen)?  No, he may not be producing in the passing game, but he must be doing something in the running game to warrant his playing time.  Of course, if you only play him on running downs... other teams might catch on.  So... he gets more snaps than other WRs... even though he might not be the best receiving option. 

Makes sense to me.

Wright has probably played 1/4 the snaps that Treadwell does and he's outperformed him significantly. 

To pumpf's point, he's a decent blocker. When Minnesota selected #23 in round 1, I'm sure they weren't ok with #3WR who's best quality is his blocking. Don't see why its so hard to admit he's a bust, I'm not slapping the guy's mother here....I'm saying the obvious. 

@"StickyBun" said: Wright has probably played 1/4 the snaps that Treadwell does and he's outperformed him significantly. 

To pumpf's point, he's a decent blocker. When Minnesota selected #23 in round 1, I'm sure they weren't ok with #3WR who's best quality is his blocking. Don't see why its so hard to admit he's a bust, I'm not slapping the guy's mother here....I'm saying the obvious. 

No, you don't pick a WR at 23 to be a blocker, but he certainly isn't a bust in his second year by most any standard. 

@"greediron" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Wright has probably played 1/4 the snaps that Treadwell does and he's outperformed him significantly. 

To pumpf's point, he's a decent blocker. When Minnesota selected #23 in round 1, I'm sure they weren't ok with #3WR who's best quality is his blocking. Don't see why its so hard to admit he's a bust, I'm not slapping the guy's mother here....I'm saying the obvious. 

Because a second year WR that is playing and getting better is kinda not a bust yet.  Not hard to see that.  He is behind one of the best WRs in the NFL in Thielen and a 5th round gem in Diggs.

No, you don't pick a WR at 23 to be a blocker, but he certainly isn't a bust in his second year by most any standard. 

@"SFVikingFan" said:

@"greediron" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Wright has probably played 1/4 the snaps that Treadwell does and he's outperformed him significantly. 

To pumpf's point, he's a decent blocker. When Minnesota selected #23 in round 1, I'm sure they weren't ok with #3WR who's best quality is his blocking. Don't see why its so hard to admit he's a bust, I'm not slapping the guy's mother here....I'm saying the obvious. 

Because a second year WR that is playing and getting better is kinda not a bust yet.  Not hard to see that.  He is behind one of the best WRs in the NFL in Thielen and a 5th round gem in Diggs.

No, you don't pick a WR at 23 to be a blocker, but he certainly isn't a bust in his second year by most any standard. 

Wanna place a wager on that?   :)