Keenum + Sloter for 2018?

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I think we sign Bridgewater to a backup contract in the offseason with incentives.  Then sign Case to a ten million plus incentives contract and let them fight it out in camp. 

Oh come on. You don't really think that's going to happen do you? Teddy signs a backup contract and Case gets 10M?

Look, I agree with anyone who says all those things like "if ain't broke, don't fix it," or "ride the hot hand." If I were coach I"d be doing the same thing. But I would also understand that it's far more likely that Bridgewater is the future of this team and not Case Keenum. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I think we sign Bridgewater to a backup contract in the offseason with incentives.  Then sign Case to a ten million plus incentives contract and let them fight it out in camp. 

Oh come on. You don't really think that's going to happen do you? Teddy signs a backup contract and Case gets 10M?

Look, I agree with anyone who says all those things like "if ain't broke, don't fix it," or "ride the hot hand." If I were coach I"d be doing the same thing. But I would also understand that it's far more likely that Bridgewater is the future of this team and not Case Keenum. 

There are politics surrounding that as well. Teddy is the ultimate teammate, he shows it all the time and is a natural leader. But do not for one minute think it is a foregone conclusion that he resigns in MN on a team friendly deal if the Vikings don't give him the opportunity to play. Teddy and his representatives could wedge the Vikings into a very uncomfortable spot with the number of QB needy teams in the league. 

There is absolutely 0 chance he resigns on a backup contract. Its more likely the Vikings get backed into a corner and are forced to tag him for $22M. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I think we sign Bridgewater to a backup contract in the offseason with incentives.  Then sign Case to a ten million plus incentives contract and let them fight it out in camp. 

Oh come on. You don't really think that's going to happen do you? Teddy signs a backup contract and Case gets 10M?

Look, I agree with anyone who says all those things like "if ain't broke, don't fix it," or "ride the hot hand." If I were coach I"d be doing the same thing. But I would also understand that it's far more likely that Bridgewater is the future of this team and not Case Keenum. 

There are politics surrounding that as well. Teddy is the ultimate teammate, he shows it all the time and is a natural leader. But do not for one minute think it is a foregone conclusion that he resigns in MN on a team friendly deal if the Vikings don't give him the opportunity to play. Teddy and his representatives could wedge the Vikings into a very uncomfortable spot with the number of QB needy teams in the league. 

There is absolutely 0 chance he resigns on a backup contract. Its more likely the Vikings get backed into a corner and are forced to tag him for $22M. 

Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: I think we sign Bridgewater to a backup contract in the offseason with incentives.  Then sign Case to a ten million plus incentives contract and let them fight it out in camp. 

Oh come on. You don't really think that's going to happen do you? Teddy signs a backup contract and Case gets 10M?

Look, I agree with anyone who says all those things like "if ain't broke, don't fix it," or "ride the hot hand." If I were coach I"d be doing the same thing. But I would also understand that it's far more likely that Bridgewater is the future of this team and not Case Keenum. 

There are politics surrounding that as well. Teddy is the ultimate teammate, he shows it all the time and is a natural leader. But do not for one minute think it is a foregone conclusion that he resigns in MN on a team friendly deal if the Vikings don't give him the opportunity to play. Teddy and his representatives could wedge the Vikings into a very uncomfortable spot with the number of QB needy teams in the league. 

There is absolutely 0 chance he resigns on a backup contract. Its more likely the Vikings get backed into a corner and are forced to tag him for $22M. 

so my proposal to offer them both similar deals with the winner getting the starter money and the loser getting the QB2 money with an out at the end of the year isnt likely to fly?   :p

seriously though,  question from yesterdays game... on the play where Case did his best Harry Houdini and made the defender miss his and then shook off the tackle from Donald... how the hell was that defender not flagged for slapping Case in the head?  He was still in the pocket,  isnt a blow to the head of a QB about the easiest flag to throw?  There was nobody else around Case to block the view either... that was ridiculous.   No call there and then the bull shit call on Barr when they simply reacted to Goffs head snapping back. ( i will maintain that it was a clean hit until I see a different camera angle that shows that Barr either led with the crown or hit him in the head.)

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

@"Clanzomaelan" said: The only thing I can think of that supports the bottom falling out for Keenum is the thought that maybe teams lack film on him? That said, he's 7-2 as the starter. Not sure what film they're lacking. 

Seems a bit fantastical to suggest that we'll see the "real" Keenum, and support it with the fact that Rudy bailed him out on the possible pick. Goff who has been awesome YTD got bailed out by his WR when Harrison nearly picked him. It's something that happens over the course of the game. 

Also, to suggest that Thielen is consistently bailing him out just seems short sighted. Often, Keenum is buying time with his feet, and doing a good job finding the open WR while on the move. Finally, he's actually getting the ball to the WR while on the move. Just not sure what else we expect of him.

I'd think we'd have seen the real Keenum by now. I'm thinking maybe he found a system that works with him.

Do the Vikings absolutely need to see him in a game to figure out if they want to resign him? I'm not so sure. Much has been said that if Keenum wasn't doing so well right now... or should I say that if the team wasn't working so well with keenum, that they would put Teddy in. So if that's the case don't you think they might have their decision made one way or the other? WHile they won't know if he will be timid on that knee until he plays an actual game do you think they will see enough in one lousy game? 

I think a lot more is being made of the "Need to see him in a game" than is really truth. If he was head and shoulders above Keenum then wouldn't that warrant him being given a contract regardless if he plays this year or not? 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

If Teddy were to somehow get to unrestricted free agency, someone would pay him. I don't think its a huge mystery either. As the team you can protect yourself in a number of different ways (signing bonus, term, salary, roster bonuses, etc..) There are a number of teams that are so desperate for a QB and flush with cap space that risks can be taken. 

In the Vikings shoes you need to be a bit more careful. You can pay a QB, but you need to make sure Teddy is the right option. But that is where it becomes ideal to get him into a game at some point. Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs are all going to get substantial raises. You cannot risk losing one of those players, reducing the Vikings margin for error.  

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

If Teddy were to somehow get to unrestricted free agency, someone would pay him. I don't think its a huge mystery either. As the team you can protect yourself in a number of different ways (signing bonus, term, salary, roster bonuses, etc..) There are a number of teams that are so desperate for a QB and flush with cap space that risks can be taken. 

In the Vikings shoes you need to be a bit more careful. You can pay a QB, but you need to make sure Teddy is the right option. But that is where it becomes ideal to get him into a game at some point. Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs are all going to get substantial raises. You cannot risk losing one of those players, reducing the Vikings margin for error.  

How high do you think he is on the QB FA list, this next year?

FA QBs 
Rodgers, Cousins, Garapalo McCarron, Teddy, Case, Bradford

10 Teams that could be looking for QB
49'ers
Buffalo
Ny Jets
Cleveland
Jax
Chargers
Arizona
Green Bay
Minnesota
Washington

Draftable  QB s
CBS latest mock has 7 going first round, probably unlikely.

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

If Teddy were to somehow get to unrestricted free agency, someone would pay him. I don't think its a huge mystery either. As the team you can protect yourself in a number of different ways (signing bonus, term, salary, roster bonuses, etc..) There are a number of teams that are so desperate for a QB and flush with cap space that risks can be taken. 

In the Vikings shoes you need to be a bit more careful. You can pay a QB, but you need to make sure Teddy is the right option. But that is where it becomes ideal to get him into a game at some point. Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs are all going to get substantial raises. You cannot risk losing one of those players, reducing the Vikings margin for error.  

How high do you think he is on the QB FA list, this next year?

FA QBs 
Rodgers, Cousins, Garapalo McCarron, Teddy, Case, Bradford

10 Teams that could be looking for QB
49'ers
Buffalo
Ny Jets
Cleveland
Jax
Chargers
Arizona
Green Bay
Minnesota
Washington

Draftable  QB s
CBS latest mock has 7 going first round, probably unlikely.

To add some context, I think there is a misunderstanding of what Teddy is worth. His negotiation is going to go one of two ways. 

1. The team locks into a shorter term deal to mitigate the teams risk with additional guaranteed money being the trade off for the player. This is the method the Eagles took with Bradford in his 2016 extension. 

2. The team offers the player market rate money and term but does not offer a significant signing bonus and reduces guarantees. Usually the player gets competitive roster bonuses with strong language. This method gives the team an easy way out of the deal with the player not being penalized for their injury or poor season. This is the method the Bengals have taken with Andy Dalton to much success. 

So what does this mean for Bridgewater? Well, considering the Vikings have historically tried to pay players upfront to avoid kicking anything down the road option #2 has been their pro forma. From Bridgewater's side this makes sense to take money up-front with the opportunity earn market rate and a potential renegotiation down the road. Money wise it would look something like this: 

Deal: 5 years $90M with $25M in guaranteed money ($2.5M signing bonus). All roster bonuses due 3 days prior to each new league year. Bridgewaters 2020 salary is 50% guaranteed at the payout of the $6M roster bonus and another 50% guaranteed at the beginning of camp.  

2018 - Salary: $12.0M / Prorated Bonus: $500K / Roster Bonus: $0M / Cap Hit: $12.5M / Dead Cap: $25M / Cap Savings: ($12.5M)
2019 - Salary: $10.5M / Prorated Bonus: $500K / Roster Bonus: $4.0M / Cap Hit: $15.0M / Dead Cap: $12.5M / Cap Savings: $2.5M
2020 - Salary: $12M / Prorated Bonus: $500K / Roster Bonus: $6.0M / Cap Hit: $18.5M / Dead Cap: $1.5M / Cap Savings: $17M
2021 - Salary: $19.5M / Prorated Bonus: $500K / Roster Bonus: $0 / Cap Hit: $20M / Dead Cap: $1.0M / Cap Savings: $19M
2022 - Salary: $23.5M / Prorated Bonus: $500K / Roster Bonus: $0 / Cap Hit: $24M / Dead Cap: $500K / Cap Savings: $23.5M

If you sort through all the contractual junk this is a 2 year deal worth $27.5M. After that you pay as you go with a likely restructure before the 2021 season.  

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

If Teddy were to somehow get to unrestricted free agency, someone would pay him. I don't think its a huge mystery either. As the team you can protect yourself in a number of different ways (signing bonus, term, salary, roster bonuses, etc..) There are a number of teams that are so desperate for a QB and flush with cap space that risks can be taken. 

In the Vikings shoes you need to be a bit more careful. You can pay a QB, but you need to make sure Teddy is the right option. But that is where it becomes ideal to get him into a game at some point. Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs are all going to get substantial raises. You cannot risk losing one of those players, reducing the Vikings margin for error.  

How high do you think he is on the QB FA list, this next year?

FA QBs 
Rodgers, Cousins, Garapalo McCarron, Teddy, Case, Bradford

10 Teams that could be looking for QB
49'ers
Buffalo
Ny Jets
Cleveland
Jax
Chargers
Arizona
Green Bay
Minnesota
Washington

Draftable  QB s
CBS latest mock has 7 going first round, probably unlikely.

Wow, Denver just an oversight there? Not sure any team needs a QB more than they do. I'd agree that Jimmy G won't see the market and I doubt Rodgers will either. Hopefully Teddy won't, but if he does, it would be him and Cousins getting the big pay days. Teddy's knee question would drop his value, but the fact that he's only 25 compared to Cousins at 30 would boost it. Bah...it's all moot. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if Teddy Bridgewater were anywhere but Minnesota next season. 

The only way that could happen, short of a knee complication, is if this team decided that Case Keenum were its future. And I think even the most fanatical Keenum fan would admit that's not very likely. 

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Bolstad79" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

I think you can only pay Teddy big money if he's proven to you that he isn't affected by the knee, either physically or mentally. And you can't really know that without putting him into a game. One way or another, Teddy has to play. 

If Teddy were to somehow get to unrestricted free agency, someone would pay him. I don't think its a huge mystery either. As the team you can protect yourself in a number of different ways (signing bonus, term, salary, roster bonuses, etc..) There are a number of teams that are so desperate for a QB and flush with cap space that risks can be taken. 

In the Vikings shoes you need to be a bit more careful. You can pay a QB, but you need to make sure Teddy is the right option. But that is where it becomes ideal to get him into a game at some point. Barr, Kendricks, Hunter, and Diggs are all going to get substantial raises. You cannot risk losing one of those players, reducing the Vikings margin for error.  

How high do you think he is on the QB FA list, this next year?

FA QBs 
Rodgers, Cousins, Garapalo McCarron, Teddy, Case, Bradford

10 Teams that could be looking for QB
49'ers
Buffalo
Ny Jets
Cleveland
Jax
Chargers
Arizona
Green Bay
Minnesota
Washington

Draftable  QB s
CBS latest mock has 7 going first round, probably unlikely.

Wow, Denver just an oversight there? Not sure any team needs a QB more than they do. I'd agree that Jimmy G won't see the market and I doubt Rodgers will either. Hopefully Teddy won't, but if he does, it would be him and Cousins getting the big pay days. Teddy's knee question would drop his value, but the fact that he's only 25 compared to Cousins at 30 would boost it. Bah...it's all moot. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if Teddy Bridgewater were anywhere but Minnesota next season. 

The only way that could happen, short of a knee complication, is if this team decided that Case Keenum were its future. And I think even the most fanatical Keenum fan would admit that's not very likely. 

I absolutely forgot about Denver, I wonder if Denver would go hard on Rodgers if he opted out of his contract. They only have 22 million in space but teams can make space.

Giants are another team that could be looking for a QB with a new HC.  They could draft a AN sign a Bridge QB and trade Eli.

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

@"FSUVike" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

Mike Glennon calling in. He's on hold but wants to speak with you.

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

Mike Glennon calling in. He's on hold but wants to speak with you.

You don't think teams want to avoid that scenario.  Glennon is the perfect example of why you make real sure the guy can play and is healthy before you give him money.  But hey I could be wrong.

does anybody else see this situation getting shitty for the Vikes?

Teddy gets pissy because in his mind he is the better QB,  but Case keeps winning so Teddy doesnt get his chance and whats to bail in FA.  Although Case keeps winning he never really does enough to make the coaches and front office happy enough to give him a big deal,  but there are teams out there that will so he gets big money waived at him in  FA as well.... so the Vikes are forced to tag one or the other without really being sure of the decision.

as a longtime Vikings fan,  I know this is a great problem to have... but I just cant shake the feeling that it will end up giving me heartburn.

@"PSBLAKE" said:

@"FSUVike" said:

@"PSBLAKE" said: Are teams seriously going to give Teddy Starter money if he does not play one snap this year?  his knee is a huge question mark right now and the Sam Bradford mystery knee injury will make every team think twice about signing a guy to a Starter contract who has had as devastating a knee injury as Teddy. 

I do get the hometown love an willingness to overpay for him from the Vikings and Zimmer but does anyone seriously think that in the offseason a team will throw 15+ million a year at Teddy?  BTW I love Teddy and I want him to be the franchise QB but I am not sure he warrants a contract that big.

Mike Glennon calling in. He's on hold but wants to speak with you.

You don't think teams want to avoid that scenario.  Glennon is the perfect example of why you make real sure the guy can play and is healthy before you give him money.  But hey I could be wrong.