Shades of ‘98. Why We Need Teddy For the Playoffs
i posted this over on Reddit a couple weeks ago thought I would start posting over here more again, the content still fits and it should spark some interesting conversation.
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In 1998 the Vikings had their best ever regular season. 15-1, and set an NFL single season scoring record that had stood for 15 years. This team was high flying with a great OL, a very good RB and a spectacular group of pass catchers. And their D was much more solid than People gave them credit for. Great at taking the ball away and holding teams off from TDS while in the red zone.
At the start of the year, the team was led by Brad Johnson, young passer entering the prime of his career. Solid and unspectacular, he had a strong arm, was smart and made good decisions. His backup was Randall Cunningham. Randall has been a huge deal as the starter in Philly in the late 80s, early 90s. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated billed as “Football’s ultimate weapon”. He ultimately left Philly in the Mid 90s when OC John Gruden and his Wc Offense arrived and Randall was unable (or unwilling) to learn it. Randall retired and went to Vegas, only to be talked out of retirement in 1997 to become Johnson’s back up.
Randall led the Vikes to a playoff win in 1997, after he took over late in the season after Johnson got hurt. The team scored two TDS in the last 4 minutes to stun the NYG. Johnson recovered from his injury and resumed his place as the leader of the offense while RC went back to the bench. But there was some minor controversy brewing.
The 1998 draft brought Randy Moss and Randy and Randall had great chemistry in Training camp. Stories of the connecting in bombs filled the camp reports and continued during the preseason. But the start of the season brought a solid victory over the Bucs (31-3? - I’m going strictly by memory here) with Randy catching two TD passes. The next week brought them to STL, which was a bottom dwelling team but one with some really good players on it. In it Johnson got an injury on a late hit and Randall came in and led the team to victory and they were off and running.
The victories mounted in a rain of long bombs to the WRs and great runs by Robert smith. RC was enjoying a rebirth, but Denny was always very coy about who his starter would be. Saying it would be Johnson when he was “healthy” but not really defining healthy. There was a minor hiccup in TB where they were exposed a bit as being vulnerable to power running teams, but even that was a tough victory for a TB squad that pulled out all the stops in what I think was Tony Dungy’s finest coaching performance. And then a game against NO came. Johnson was finally healthy enough to dress on a game day and just like that, RC goes down to injury and Johnson came in and led the team to victory over a lesser opponent.
Should have been a great time to transition back, but Johnson suffered another injury, Randall Cunningham decided he could play with a broken left wrist (much to QB3 Jay Fielder’s chagrin), and the Vikes start rolling even more with blow out victory after blow out victory. Eventually Johnson got back, but RC was named the starter for the rest of the season and given a contract extension. The Vikings were all in with Randall.
But Randall had a weakness - and that weakness was playoff football. Despite taking some great teams to the playoffs in Philly, he was 1-4 as a starter with a QB rating around 66 (which is sub Ponder territory). In the playoffs the opponents are better, things are more conservative, and there is just a lot of pressure. Some players do better than others, and Randall had never done well, with the lone exception of the last 4 minutes the previous year against the NYGs.
So, the Playoffs arrive and the Vikes blow the Cardinals out like 44-10 in game one, setting up a match against perennial bottom dwellers the Atlanta Falcons. Now, everyone overlooked the Falcons, but they shouldn’t have. The Falcons were 14-2 themselves that year and were a team led by a vet QB, Chris Chandler, and were seemingly made to order to beat the smaller Viking defense with power runner Jamal Anderson.
The Vikes did a great job early, jumping out to a 17-7 lead right before the half, when Randall fumbled deep in our territory, ATL recovered and promptly scored a TD bringing the score to 17-14 at the half.
In the second half the Vikes offense stalled as ATL took the deep stuff away and Randall kept trying to force it, not recognizing that they were leaving plenty of intermediate and short stuff available. The Vikes were able to score early in Q4 to push the lead to 27-17. After that moment for the rest of the quarter, Randall went 3-8 for 25 yards, took a sack and also fumbled the ball away giving the Falcons the ball at MN’s 30.
The game went into over time, during which time Randal was 2-8 for 23 yards and a sack. He got the ball on his own 29 and 27 yardlines, much better starting position that the Falcons got Which was their own 15 and 9.
The O, which had led the team all year, lost that game. It wasn’t injuries as lore would have you believe. Go back and read (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901170min.htm#all_pbp) this was all in the O.
So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?
Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
I don’t write this to be disrespectful of either Keenum or Randall. They both did great jobs in their roles. But if we ask them to go beyond their roles, woe be onto us as they remind us who they are.
Great QBs make 0-1 bad decisions or throws a game
Good QBs make 2-3
Average QBs make 4-5
Below average QBs make more than that. Keenum typically makes 4-5 bad throws and decisions a game. he, like Randall, is very capable of steering a loaded team into the playoffs. But at that point it will just be a matter of time until our hearts are broken again.
We need Teddy.
Skol.
pretty much how I see it. Nice write up and nice to see you back around.
Nice to see you back, headhunt! This is a very well-written post and I think it's a fair comparison between QB situations. This current situation has no choice but to come to some sort of conclusion and my thought is that I just have to trust our head coach. In the end, with all of the prognosticating, flip-flopping and second guessing the fan base is doing, one has to hope like hell but also EXPECT our coaching staff, our head coach, to know what's best for this team and make the call, whatever call that may be. My personal belief is we need to get Teddy in there but I can honestly say I have no idea when that should be. I thought I did. I sometimes still think I do. Regardless, I take NOTHING away from Case and have said many times that I'm very thankful we've had him on this team this season, so if Zim sticks with Case I will support that decision.
@"JimmyinSD" said: pretty much how I see it. Nice write up and nice to see you back around.Agreed. A loaded team, great o-line, a new offense without much film on it. Case has done well, but still makes too many bad plays to win it all.
"Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB.
If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "
so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
@"golfervike" said: "Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB. If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said: "Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB. If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
Headhunter, nice write up. It is great to see someone who draws on a vivid recollection of pivotal events in Vike history. I look forward to more.
@"headhunt23" said: So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
On Sunday, Keenum had a perfect 158.3 QB rating throwing against Josh Norman, widely known as one of the best, if not the best, CBs in the game.
And that was against a defense that had just shut down the red-hot Russell Wilson in Seattle the week before.
I'm still waiting for an actual legitimate reason why Keenum should be benched. And because you "just know" he is going to shit the bed at some point is not a valid reason.
@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said: "Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB. If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
you mean the label that was assigned when he signed here by everybody. he is playing good, but not necessarily good enough. its beyond reason to not want to see if another player might provide better at the position if the coaches deem it possible. its not like Keenum is looking like the second coming of Brady... he is playing decent, but that horseshoe hes got stuck up his ass is likely to fall out at some point and better defenses will likely expose his warts and leave the team in a bad place. why wait if the coaches think Teddy is the answer and they think he is ready.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"headhunt23" said: So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
On Sunday, Keenum had a perfect 158.3 QB rating throwing against Josh Norman, widely known as one of the best, if not the best, CBs in the game.And that was against a defense that had just shut down the red-hot Russell Wilson in Seattle the week before.
I'm still waiting for an actual legitimate reason why Keenum should be benched. And because you "just know" he is going to shit the bed at some point is not a valid reason.
Thank you!
@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said: "Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB. If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
you mean the label that was assigned when he signed here by everybody. he is playing good, but not necessarily good enough. its beyond reason to not want to see if another player might provide better at the position if the coaches deem it possible. its not like Keenum is looking like the second coming of Brady... he is playing decent, but that horseshoe hes got stuck up his ass is likely to fall out at some point and better defenses will likely expose his warts and leave the team in a bad place. why wait if the coaches think Teddy is the answer and they think he is ready.I agree with everything you say, Keenum is playing better than he ever has, but why is it not possible for him to just be playing better? and the label he was assigned when he signed here means nothing this far into the season, he's the starter this season for all except the 1st week, and has performed above average (at least in my opinion). the thought that it's all luck is a cop-out no?
and i love Zim, but i think one of his flaws, for better or for worse, is his man crush on Teddy, because he loves a conservative QB who wont win or lose a game for you, and that's what he's been. but that's his guy.. i could see him playing Teddy for other reasons than on the field.
Teddy could be way WORSE than Case when he comes back, he's going to be rusty as all get up, hasn't been hit in 18 months, has not faced a live defense in that time span either, you worry about what a good defense could do to Case? i'm much more worried what Teddy would do against a top defense.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"headhunt23" said: So, what does this have to do with Case Keenum?If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call.
On Sunday, Keenum had a perfect 158.3 QB rating throwing against Josh Norman, widely known as one of the best, if not the best, CBs in the game.And that was against a defense that had just shut down the red-hot Russell Wilson in Seattle the week before.
I'm still waiting for an actual legitimate reason why Keenum should be benched. And because you "just know" he is going to shit the bed at some point is not a valid reason.
That is what this exact thread is about.
@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said:@"JimmyinSD" said:@"golfervike" said: "Because, right now many folks have nice big chubbies for Case because he’s winning games and he’s seemingly playing decently. They aren’t noticing that Keenum is getting bailed out by his WRs on lots of catches and that he could easily have more INTs due to how inaccurate some of his passes are. And they are ignoring his history of being a journeyman back up QB. If this team goes into the playoffs with Keenum as the starter, we can all look forward to another episode of heart break as a good CB takes away one of his behind the WR balls or takes a lollipop thrown on an out 72 yards for a house call. "so this entire lengthy post is basically summed up by literally saying nothing. "seemingly playing decent" "bailed out by WR's" "history of being a Journyman backup QB"....
this is hyperbole, it means absolutely nothing. all just fun catch phrases, and maybe's, hypothetical. News flash, great WR's want the ball just thrown up to them, and let them go make a play...
And this is under the assumption that some seem to have that Teddy is a top 10 QB in this league.
Again- the infatuation with the QB2 in this town is simply amazing. It's amazing some fans want a QB who was middling, at best his first two years. Then is off 18 months away from the game from a horrific injury.
uhm.... Case is QB2. we just want to see what the former QB1 might have to offer if the coaches think he is an upgrade.Case has been our starter for 9 weeks, has been playing at a starter level based on any metric you care to look at... Case is not the QB2 this season in anything other than the label many put on him as "journyman backup QB"
you mean the label that was assigned when he signed here by everybody. he is playing good, but not necessarily good enough. its beyond reason to not want to see if another player might provide better at the position if the coaches deem it possible. its not like Keenum is looking like the second coming of Brady... he is playing decent, but that horseshoe hes got stuck up his ass is likely to fall out at some point and better defenses will likely expose his warts and leave the team in a bad place. why wait if the coaches think Teddy is the answer and they think he is ready.I agree with everything you say, Keenum is playing better than he ever has, but why is it not possible for him to just be playing better? and the label he was assigned when he signed here means nothing this far into the season, he's the starter this season for all except the 1st week, and has performed above average (at least in my opinion). the thought that it's all luck is a cop-out no?
and i love Zim, but i think one of his flaws, for better or for worse, is his man crush on Teddy, because he loves a conservative QB who wont win or lose a game for you, and that's what he's been. but that's his guy.. i could see him playing Teddy for other reasons than on the field.
Teddy could be way WORSE than Case when he comes back, he's going to be rusty as all get up, hasn't been hit in 18 months, has not faced a live defense in that time span either, you worry about what a good defense could do to Case? i'm much more worried what Teddy would do against a top defense.
i say its a horse shoe because of the flaws in his game that havent resulted in a lot more turn overs. I literally have never seen a QB get away with poor technique and errant throws as much as Case has this year.... yes its working for him and consequently the Vikes which makes me happy, but you have to agree that he has had a lot of throws hit defenders in the hands and then fall to the ground... and that is not skill... so i say luck. also, he stares down his preferred targets far to often, good defenses will make him pay, we saw Swearinger make the easy pick on Sunday when Case locked onto Rudolph and still attempt the throw. The only anomaly in that play was the pick, Case has gotten away with that stare down all season... again why I say luck. lastly the lofted balls or high/late throws, the receivers have done a good job of hauling them in, but its surprising to me that more of these arent tipped for interceptions, his accuracy is often not good enough for what I would expect from a QB1.IMO he is a QB2, probably one of the best in the game and maybe could be considered a QB1 with an asterisk in that you would be looking for a better QB1. Case has played well and really is one of the reasons our OL is looking as good as it has, his mobility in the pocket and escapability are a big reason for the success he has had, he has done a great job of leading the offense, my only complaint is the execution of the passing game, which is unfortunately a major part of what I am looking for in a QB1.
Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
i think this is the root of the argument, people want to see what we have. i get that, i just fall in the camp that you dont risk losing the season if Teddy is not at a bare minimum the average QB he was as a starter here (albeit trending up). and after a long long layover i fear he will be far worse in the immediate and we will throw away a 7-2 start in a NFC that is virtually wide open, as you can find many flaws in almost every team other than maybe the Eagles.
@"golfervike" said:Hell if Teddy comes in and we dont see an improvement on Case I will be pushing for the team to let Teddy walk, resign Case on a 3 year deal with low level starter money, and then use a high draft pick on a QB1 in training. I am not about just giving the job to Teddy because he is a great person and a warm and fuzzy story.... I want the QB search to end sooner than later.
i think this is the root of the argument, people want to see what we have. i get that, i just fall in the camp that you dont risk losing the season if Teddy is not at a bare minimum the average QB he was as a starter here (albeit trending up). and after a long long layover i fear he will be far worse in the immediate and we will throw away a 7-2 start in a NFC that is virtually wide open, as you can find many flaws in almost every team other than maybe the Eagles.
the only reason I am fine with risking the season as you say is I am pretty convinced that what we have seen to this point is not sustainable anyway as the opponents get tougher. I dont see Case as being good enough consistently to beat ATL and Carolina on their fields.Also I dont see the team falling apart if we have to go back to Case if Teddy cant exceed Cases play. we may lose in the standings, but I think we are a 4th seed or lower with Case, I think if Teddy has made any improvements in the last 15 months that we could see a 2 or 3 seed... i agree, its hard to see much of chink in the philly armor at this point, but still a lot of games left to play.
Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
@"Mike Olson" said: Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
probably more so RC than Johnson, Johnson proved to be a pretty good QB without our receivers, but RC couldnt even make it sustain it for more than 1 season... but yeah, it would be tough not to look good throwing to those 3.
Hence "That isn't to say they didn't both play well" they both did but those receivers were a SICK group. Football vacuum cleaners out there.
@"Mike Olson" said: Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
My point was that one QB relied on a lot more of those long bomb plays than the other. You didnt see Johnson chucking it up deep to covered WRs and letting them make a play.
And the ‘98 team was fun to watch...until it wasn’t. Randall left a lot of stuff on the table in that second half when he kept trying to throw it deep to Moss.
Johnson wouldnt have done that. And I will go to my grave knowing (not thinking) that Johnson wins that game.
@"Mike Olson" said: Man if anyone doesn't think that both Randall Cunningham AND Brad Johnson both got bailed out by three deep..... I don't know what they were watching. That isn't to say that they didn't both play well..... But without Moss's ability those deep throws don't get completed nearly enough. Jake Reed was the master of the circus catch (and oddly enough he dropped some easy catches) and Carter.... come on.... It's Carter.
Exactly what I was thinking reading this thread and would've posted if you hadn't already. Vikes have some good receivers now but they sure as hell don't compare to what the Vikes had in '98. Moss and Carter are one of the best WR duos in history and Reed was no slouch. I really enjoyed the OP's write up, great ride down memory lane.
Pointing out that Keenum is getting bailed out quite a bit by his receivers and not pointing out the same thing for Cunningham and Johnson is not being fair to what Case has accomplished so far this year.
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