Why is Teddy so polarizing? I’d like a realistic conversation about #5
First, the hate, anger, lack of respect Viking fans have for this kid is amazing. There is no doubt his coach, his teammates and people that know him, love him. If anyone can bounce back from this injury, it’s 5.
Now, look back at 2015, we are a kick away from the Divisional round, a game in Arizona I think most Viking fans felt we would win in a healthy rematch (during the season, the TNF game we didn’t have Harrison, Barr and Linval). Teddy kept us in that game on the road versus a team that almost went to the Super Bowl. Teddy’s numbers were not amazing in 2015, but he won. His OC ran a very conservative offense, plenty of 3 TE, max protects, due to a lack of established playmakers outside and a solid enough OL to spread the field. Very few QB’s would put up crazy numbers under that scenario. What we had in Teddy was a good smart QB with accuracy and an ability to play very well versus adversity. Don’t forget, his GUMP for a reason, something that even Sam isn’t. Going into 2016, we were all optimistic about the young QB’s 3rd year, due to a natural maturation, due to reports from camp, due to rhe progression of new weapons on the outside. We caught a glimpse of beautiful sideline dimes, productive scramblig skills, and a strike down the seam in the preseason game before the injury. Then the injury.
If the kid bounces back from the injury, which we can debate, but if he does let’s be honest what he has:
MUCH IMPROVED OL
BEST GROUP OF WR’S HE’S EVER HAD
OC with a dynamic spread gameplan
NOTHING TO LOSE
Those 4 points right there, regardless of your belief in Teddy, can’t be overlooked. His passing abilities are perfect for having AT19 in the slot for cross routes and mid range sideline touch passes. A spread field gives a QB like Teddy great options to make plays in space. Diggs, Thelein, Floyd/Treadwell, Rudy, is a formdiable foe for defenses, eliminating the dreaded 60 min run blitz we faced in 2015. Frankly you can’t stack the box anymore versus this Vikings team, and the person who will love that the most will be Teddy. Having a defense on their heels, is advantage offense. Why are people calling him mediocre? Why are they harping on the 14TD’s? Why are fans, Viking fans doubting this kid’s toughness, calmness, and ability to play versus pressure? THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT at QB. You need a guy who can get going when the times are tough, who can lead 4th quarter comebacks and get wins, not fill up the stat sheet. He won’t ever be Rodgers or Stafford but he could be Brees, he could be Brady. Tom Brady wasn’t a passing stud until 2007, that was post 3 Super Bowl wins. He was clutch, he played smart with a lead, he made plays with his legs when necessary, and he played on a damn good team with premier coaching and defense. That’s what we almost have here. I think this defense will get better, you see glimpses of youngstres like Harris, Mac Man, and Lamur making plays. Hunter has yet to break out, Jaleel Johnson and Weatherly are just starting to hit the field to add more wrinkles to this defense. We have barely seen the double A gap blitzing that gave us a historic start to last season. This defense will get better, the special teams has yet to male plays, they will get better.
Despite the tough schedule, despitelosing a potential pro bowl RB, this team will get better. Adding 5# to the mix adds another layer. I really like Case, and I believe that his ceiling is higher than most believe, but with that said there wasn’t one play Case made last Sunday that Teddy can’t make in 3-4 weeks if healthy. If it’s Teddy, that tipped pass pick from Case, is turned into a HUGE slant, maybe a TD to Floyd. Teddy can make all the passes that Case can and more. Teddy can go on the road and lead a team down the field to win in a hostile environment. Teddy being on the field, gives his teammates, the fans, the media confidence, Case is almost a holding your breath waiting for that errant pass to be picked and the momentum of a winnable game to be lost. It’s not a fault of Case, it is what it is.
Believe in 5, his teammates do, his coaches do. Believe in Teddy because if anyone is going to defy the odds, it’s going to be him. Be realistic anout the situation surrounding him, it’s much better now than in 2015, be realistic he’s a smart accurate young QB who has proven in the past when times get tough, you can call on him. His leg might not allow him to be the guy he was destined to be, but let’s give him a shot and stop doubting his potential.
We have had Viking teams who were the best defenses (69, 87, 88), the best offenses (98), great front running teams (2000) great dominate teams (2009), but with all this we still haven’t won shit. Maybe this is how it gets done, maybe this team goes 6-2 by the bye and Teddy comes back versus almost unsurmountable odds, leads this team to the playoffs, leads this team to Super Bowl, maybe just maybe, this is the team that gets it done.
Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.
I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
@"Kentis" said:Of course there are opinions. But the OP asked for "a realistic conversation", implying that he would employ realism:Imagine that, opinions on a fan forumn... ;)
realism
noun1. interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative, etc.
So I was looking for some facts - like how Bridgewater's production progressed over his first two years, or the past precedent for players returning from similar injuries while still as young as him, or maybe comparing the skills he demonstrated in college to suitability to the Norv Turner vs Pat Shurmur offensive styles. Isn't that a huge space for interesting discussion?
Maroon, no argument that we can all acknowledge these posts are full of opinion. But will just doing that reduce the hostility? If posters throw out sheer opinion, like, "Believe in Teddy as I believe in him", another can say, "No!! All should believe in Sam as I do, I know Theilen smiled at him after a touchdown which means the team loves Sam best!", and yadda yadda yadda with ever-increasing volume. OTOH, if one poster says, "I don't trust Teddy because he threw 30 interceptions in 2015," others can say, "I think you misread some information, he only threw 9 as shown in ESPN at this link..." and evidence supports the debate in a civil way.
There is room for opinion but not if it's unsupported. In my opinion, the name-calling escalates more when posters ONLY use opinion without support, because (support) that's ultimately just "My dog's better than your dog, my dad can beat up your dad".
One of my opinions on the Bridgewater topic is that people might be overvaluing the value of the "leadership" one on-field player provides over another. We see the players but they are not the entire organization or team. Don't coaches provide that? I think that is especially the case if the "leadership intangible" people desire is actually consistency and discipline in players' performance. Players on good teams often keep showing they want to win when a "leader QB" is out; an example (evidence) is the Broncos going 4-2 with Brock Osweiler taking over for Peyton Manning.
@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
What worries me most is that there aren't many good to great QBs in today's NFL with Teddy's limited arm strength. I also hope he's been working on that elbow drop in his delivery.
But as a person, there is no one I cheer for harder.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
What worries me most is that there aren't many good to great QBs in today's NFL with Teddy's limited arm strength.
One of the reasons why I wanted Bradford to work out here...He's got the arm, downfield accuracy I did not see in Bridgewater's first couple of years.Plus Sam is a good guy too - snake bit as hell in every sense but the wallet.
@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
You saw a game manager because that's exactly what they asked him to be. Remember, this was Adrian's offense and Teddy Bridgewater was a 2nd year QB who was asked to not screw it up. And that's not a knock against Teddy. Most young QBs are given the same leash. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco. "Run offense" is just another way of saying "young QB." The 3rd year was supposed to be the year we transitioned to a more passing-oriented offense. We have no way of knowing how Teddy would've done in that offense, but I think we got a nice preview in that 3rd preseason game before he got hurt.
@"Skodin" said: First, the hate, anger, lack of respect Viking fans have for this kid is amazing. .I just reviewed the thread about Bridgewater's first day of practice. There are presently 9 comments which are undeniably positive (ranging up to "gleeful") about Bridgewater. Some addressed topics (e.g. what the brace provides) without being positive or negative, and 2 were a bit cautious: of those 2, one was concerned for his personal health but ended with "would like to see him back soon", and one did have the audacity to doubt comparing Bridgewater to Joe Montana.
Where do you see hate, anger, or lack of respect? OK, maybe it's on other sites: well, post that complaint THERE. Longship has some posters who want to see evidence of Bridgewater's recovery and his football skills, but that is a ridiculously thin-skinned definition of "hate". There is no evidence of a "war on Teddy" at this site.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
You saw a game manager because that's exactly what they asked him to be. Remember, this was Adrian's offense and Teddy Bridgewater was a 2nd year QB who was asked to not screw it up. And that's not a knock against Teddy. Most young QBs are given the same leash. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco. "Run offense" is just another way of saying "young QB." The 3rd year was supposed to be the year we transitioned to a more passing-oriented offense. We have no way of knowing how Teddy would've done in that offense, but I think we got a nice preview in that 3rd preseason game before he got hurt.
Well, even last year we were still hand-cuffed from becoming a passing-oriented offense with AD on the roster. It's too bad that if Teddy came back this year, he wouldn't have Dalvin Cook on the roster as I think those two could be very effective together. But at the same time, I think Cook's skills help make any QB's job a little easier.
@"SFVikingFan" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
You saw a game manager because that's exactly what they asked him to be. Remember, this was Adrian's offense and Teddy Bridgewater was a 2nd year QB who was asked to not screw it up. And that's not a knock against Teddy. Most young QBs are given the same leash. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco. "Run offense" is just another way of saying "young QB." The 3rd year was supposed to be the year we transitioned to a more passing-oriented offense. We have no way of knowing how Teddy would've done in that offense, but I think we got a nice preview in that 3rd preseason game before he got hurt.
Well, even last year we were still hand-cuffed from becoming a passing-oriented offense with AD on the roster. It's too bad that if Teddy came back this year, he wouldn't have Dalvin Cook on the roster as I think those two could be very effective together. But at the same time, I think Cook's skills help make any QB's job a little easier.
If the Vikings ever get any kind of luck, Dalvin, Teddy and Diggs should have a long career together. If fact, a lot of great offenses are defined by their QB, RB, WR and LT. Add Reiff into that and this offense might rival its defense in a couple of years, as players on that side of the ball get harder and harder to keep.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
You saw a game manager because that's exactly what they asked him to be. Remember, this was Adrian's offense and Teddy Bridgewater was a 2nd year QB who was asked to not screw it up. And that's not a knock against Teddy. Most young QBs are given the same leash. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco. "Run offense" is just another way of saying "young QB." The 3rd year was supposed to be the year we transitioned to a more passing-oriented offense. We have no way of knowing how Teddy would've done in that offense, but I think we got a nice preview in that 3rd preseason game before he got hurt.
I think you're over-generalizing what they wanted him to be vs what he was early. Lotta plays left on the field - but yah, it's what you get with a very young QB, and the promise was year 3. Which unfortunately he and the fans never got.That said, this is exactly why you and I both loathe the notion of starting over again with a rook QB. Even one with the attributes of a Sloter.
I haven't honestly seen much hatred toward Teddy-I've seen much more toward Sam-but the simple fact is that Teddy has never shown to be that dangerous of a QB. His long-ball game remains utterly unproven, and he's generally had to dink-and-dunk for survival much like all of our QBs since Burt Favor.
He hasn't proven much, maybe because of his line, his (early) receivers, whatever...but his lack of tangible stats and long-ball accuracy remain question marks until he "answers" them.
@"StickyBun" said:@"Skodin" said: i disagree. other boards, comments sections in the star tribune etc, there is a lot of teddy doubt, there was a lot of doubt back in 2015 and going into 2016. I have seen many fans say he’s mediocre, or a game manager at best, especially in comparison to Carr That's because Carr is a franchise QB. Carr threw for 81 TDs and only 31 INTs his first 3 years. Teddy can't touch those numbers. Bridgewater might be mediocre or he could be better than that. How does that translate to hate? Its just the current facts.To be fair after year two for both players there was legitimate national debate on who was the better QB of the future and it was pretty evenly split.
They were in 2 completely different situations. Carr came into a team with a very good pass pro OL and 2 very good WR's in a pass first offense, he put up numbers but struggled to win for a variety of reasons.
Teddy cam into a team with a good defense, good power run game, few weapons in the passing game, and a poor pass pro OL.Right now you have to say Carr is better but when they were both on the field I was very close and hard to quantify because of the situations they were in.
I hope when Teddy gets back in there he picks up where he left off, lord knows the team around him today is far better than the one he left in 2015.
@"Jor-El" said:@"Kentis" said:Imagine that, opinions on a fan forumn... ;)Of course there are opinions. But the OP asked for "a realistic conversation", implying that he would employ realism:
realism
noun1. interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative, etc.So I was looking for some facts - like how Bridgewater's production progressed over his first two years, or the past precedent for players returning from similar injuries while still as young as him, or maybe comparing the skills he demonstrated in college to suitability to the Norv Turner vs Pat Shurmur offensive styles. Isn't that a huge space for interesting discussion?
Maroon, no argument that we can all acknowledge these posts are full of opinion. But will just doing that reduce the hostility? If posters throw out sheer opinion, like, "Believe in Teddy as I believe in him", another can say, "No!! All should believe in Sam as I do, I know Theilen smiled at him after a touchdown which means the team loves Sam best!", and yadda yadda yadda with ever-increasing volume. OTOH, if one poster says, "I don't trust Teddy because he threw 30 interceptions in 2015," others can say, "I think you misread some information, he only threw 9 as shown in ESPN at this link..." and evidence supports the debate in a civil way.
There is room for opinion but not if it's unsupported. In my opinion, the name-calling escalates more when posters ONLY use opinion without support, because (support) that's ultimately just "My dog's better than your dog, my dad can beat up your dad".
One of my opinions on the Bridgewater topic is that people might be overvaluing the value of the "leadership" one on-field player provides over another. We see the players but they are not the entire organization or team. Don't coaches provide that? I think that is especially the case if the "leadership intangible" people desire is actually consistency and discipline in players' performance. Players on good teams often keep showing they want to win when a "leader QB" is out; an example (evidence) is the Broncos going 4-2 with Brock Osweiler taking over for Peyton Manning.
You are going to invoke realism, LOL, like all your “real” takes on coach Zimmer! Please...
@"purplefaithful" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"purplefaithful" said: Teddy is a good egg, good people. All of us are rooting for the kid to make it all the way back. I am just dubious of how good a qb he can really become in the NFL, based on what I saw from him pre-injury.I saw a game manager, others saw Joe Montana. Shrug.
Will be fun to watch this play out.
You saw a game manager because that's exactly what they asked him to be. Remember, this was Adrian's offense and Teddy Bridgewater was a 2nd year QB who was asked to not screw it up. And that's not a knock against Teddy. Most young QBs are given the same leash. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco. "Run offense" is just another way of saying "young QB." The 3rd year was supposed to be the year we transitioned to a more passing-oriented offense. We have no way of knowing how Teddy would've done in that offense, but I think we got a nice preview in that 3rd preseason game before he got hurt.
I think you're over-generalizing what they wanted him to be vs what he was early. Lotta plays left on the field - but yah, it's what you get with a very young QB, and the promise was year 3. Which unfortunately he and the fans never got.That said, this is exactly why you and I both loathe the notion of starting over again with a rook QB. Even one with the attributes of a Sloter.
Yeah, it just takes too long, especially for a team that is built to win now. Even QBs that we think of as elite (Elway, Brees, Brady, Rodgers) weren't very productive their first few seasons. Rodgers didn't even play. Brady didn't throw for over 3K until his 3rd season. Brees and Elway were god-awful. I keep thinking what this team would look like with a healthy Teddy in his 4th season paired with Dalvin Cook and those receivers...and this line. Goddam, you can drive yourself crazy thinking about all the "what ifs."Some would argue this team would be better with a healthy Bradford. Very possibly. It's a legit debate. At least it is for reasonable people. There are things that Sam does better. IMO, he's got a stronger arm and wins the deep accuracy battle. But he doesn't move in the pocket as well as Teddy. I also think Teddy has more "IT." He's more clutch. I don't care which one is healthy first, as long as one of them is by week 10. Is that too much to ask?
Teddy never had a decent offensive line in his career. put him back there behind this revamped decent offensive line and he will shine. It really all depends on the knee.
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