Why is Teddy so polarizing? I’d like a realistic conversation about #5
First, the hate, anger, lack of respect Viking fans have for this kid is amazing. There is no doubt his coach, his teammates and people that know him, love him. If anyone can bounce back from this injury, it’s 5.
Now, look back at 2015, we are a kick away from the Divisional round, a game in Arizona I think most Viking fans felt we would win in a healthy rematch (during the season, the TNF game we didn’t have Harrison, Barr and Linval). Teddy kept us in that game on the road versus a team that almost went to the Super Bowl. Teddy’s numbers were not amazing in 2015, but he won. His OC ran a very conservative offense, plenty of 3 TE, max protects, due to a lack of established playmakers outside and a solid enough OL to spread the field. Very few QB’s would put up crazy numbers under that scenario. What we had in Teddy was a good smart QB with accuracy and an ability to play very well versus adversity. Don’t forget, his GUMP for a reason, something that even Sam isn’t. Going into 2016, we were all optimistic about the young QB’s 3rd year, due to a natural maturation, due to reports from camp, due to rhe progression of new weapons on the outside. We caught a glimpse of beautiful sideline dimes, productive scramblig skills, and a strike down the seam in the preseason game before the injury. Then the injury.
If the kid bounces back from the injury, which we can debate, but if he does let’s be honest what he has:
MUCH IMPROVED OL
BEST GROUP OF WR’S HE’S EVER HAD
OC with a dynamic spread gameplan
NOTHING TO LOSE
Those 4 points right there, regardless of your belief in Teddy, can’t be overlooked. His passing abilities are perfect for having AT19 in the slot for cross routes and mid range sideline touch passes. A spread field gives a QB like Teddy great options to make plays in space. Diggs, Thelein, Floyd/Treadwell, Rudy, is a formdiable foe for defenses, eliminating the dreaded 60 min run blitz we faced in 2015. Frankly you can’t stack the box anymore versus this Vikings team, and the person who will love that the most will be Teddy. Having a defense on their heels, is advantage offense. Why are people calling him mediocre? Why are they harping on the 14TD’s? Why are fans, Viking fans doubting this kid’s toughness, calmness, and ability to play versus pressure? THIS IS THE GUY YOU WANT at QB. You need a guy who can get going when the times are tough, who can lead 4th quarter comebacks and get wins, not fill up the stat sheet. He won’t ever be Rodgers or Stafford but he could be Brees, he could be Brady. Tom Brady wasn’t a passing stud until 2007, that was post 3 Super Bowl wins. He was clutch, he played smart with a lead, he made plays with his legs when necessary, and he played on a damn good team with premier coaching and defense. That’s what we almost have here. I think this defense will get better, you see glimpses of youngstres like Harris, Mac Man, and Lamur making plays. Hunter has yet to break out, Jaleel Johnson and Weatherly are just starting to hit the field to add more wrinkles to this defense. We have barely seen the double A gap blitzing that gave us a historic start to last season. This defense will get better, the special teams has yet to male plays, they will get better.
Despite the tough schedule, despitelosing a potential pro bowl RB, this team will get better. Adding 5# to the mix adds another layer. I really like Case, and I believe that his ceiling is higher than most believe, but with that said there wasn’t one play Case made last Sunday that Teddy can’t make in 3-4 weeks if healthy. If it’s Teddy, that tipped pass pick from Case, is turned into a HUGE slant, maybe a TD to Floyd. Teddy can make all the passes that Case can and more. Teddy can go on the road and lead a team down the field to win in a hostile environment. Teddy being on the field, gives his teammates, the fans, the media confidence, Case is almost a holding your breath waiting for that errant pass to be picked and the momentum of a winnable game to be lost. It’s not a fault of Case, it is what it is.
Believe in 5, his teammates do, his coaches do. Believe in Teddy because if anyone is going to defy the odds, it’s going to be him. Be realistic anout the situation surrounding him, it’s much better now than in 2015, be realistic he’s a smart accurate young QB who has proven in the past when times get tough, you can call on him. His leg might not allow him to be the guy he was destined to be, but let’s give him a shot and stop doubting his potential.
We have had Viking teams who were the best defenses (69, 87, 88), the best offenses (98), great front running teams (2000) great dominate teams (2009), but with all this we still haven’t won shit. Maybe this is how it gets done, maybe this team goes 6-2 by the bye and Teddy comes back versus almost unsurmountable odds, leads this team to the playoffs, leads this team to Super Bowl, maybe just maybe, this is the team that gets it done.
With very few exceptions every QB in the NFL is a product of scheme and supporting cast. It's why we have people like Matt Schaub and Jake Delhomme and Jeff Garcia and Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick and Kirk Cousins and Eli Manning and Sam Bradford and Carson Palmer and Matt Stafford and Andy Dalton and Ben Roethlisgerger looking utterly unstoppable one week/year and looking utterly clueless the next. And vice versa. I feel pretty confident that Teddy is the kind of QB who, with good protection and balance, can win a Super Bowl. And that's really all I care about.
To me Teddy is just a winner, too many fans get caught up in stats & style points even when the team is winning! Fuck that, I’ll take a W, any way we can get them...
@"greediron" said:First, the hate, anger, lack of respect Viking fans have for this kid is amazing.Just don't see much of that. Kinda throws your whole post into a different vibe.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Another poster could have just done this and replaced "hate, anger, lack of respect" with "love, adoration, blind faith" and been just as inaccurate but just as representative of the common opinions expressed.
I opened this thread hoping someone wanted to lay out pros and cons, or the different perspectives, for objective comparison, but instead we get the above and more like this:
- "There is no doubt his coach, his teammates and people that know him, love him. If anyone can bounce back from this injury, it’s 5. "
- "Believe in 5, his teammates do, his coaches do. Believe in Teddy because if anyone is going to defy the odds, it’s going to be him."
"Realistic conversation"? Love it - but realism starts with acknowledging the limits to what fans (or anyone) can "know", comparing objectively, and recognizing when statements are wishful thinking. Too much of the Teddy support seems more like religion than science.
@"Vikergirl" said: There are some that think you have to be Team Teddy or Team Sam. That's stupid. I am Team Minnesota. But anyone that would hate Teddy is an idiot. What's not to like about him? Seriously? He is a good guy. He is doing all the right things. He never wanted pity. He just keeps grinding. How can you not root for a guy like that?By that measure Christian Ponder should still be a Viking... B)
Imagine that, opinions on a fan forumn... ;)
o·pin·ion
- a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More - the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing."the changing climate of opinion"
- an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something."I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved"
@"Kentis" said:Imagine that, opinions on a fan forumn... ;)o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/noun
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More
- an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something."I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved"
Excellent post. If everyone could just keep this in mind there would be a lot less hostility. 'Course, a little hostility every now and then keeps things lively. 'Course, that's just my opinion.
I happen to agree with Skodin. I think it depends on where you do your Internet browsing, but I'm on 3 or 4 fan pages on Facebook and there's quite a few people on those pages that are absolutely not Teddy fans. Anytime something is posted about Teddy, a lot of the articles are filled with fans saying he sucks, he's terrible, this, that and the other. In comparison to our board debate it's much more venomous. I don't really go to the Pioneer Press or Star Tribune so unless there's a linked article these are generally amateur/fan board articles that I'm seeing. And yeah, it isn't good.
As for the other points Skodin makes, I definitely agree with him regarding the team and coaching support. They love him. They see everything we don't see because they are with him during practice, during workouts, during team meetings, and off the field. We don't know Teddy like they do. We don't see what they see. I'm encouraged by their excitement about his return. I'm not expecting miracles out of Teddy but I see him (in healthy condition) as an upgrade over Case by a fair bit.
Neither Teddy or Case have Sam's arm talent, but Case moves well in the pocket, rolls out well, and has escapability. Teddy (pre-injury) possessed those same skills, to an even greater degree than Case. Will he still have that ability? We are going to find out soon, I believe.
Point taken PG. I stick with here and Vikings.com, so I pretty much only see the love for him with a few expressing legit doubts. I am sincerely in the Teddy fan club. Love the kid and think he was ascending going into year 3. We shall see now.
As to the OP, no issues with the opinion. Just seemed a bit odd clamoring for realistic debate and diving right into some unrealistic or at least heavily biased opinions. I believe in him, but that belief in him any better.
its because all mn fans are racest. Or at least that wasthe answer in the culpepper years.
@"Jor-El" said:@"greediron" said:First, the hate, anger, lack of respect Viking fans have for this kid is amazing.Just don't see much of that. Kinda throws your whole post into a different vibe.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Another poster could have just done this and replaced "hate, anger, lack of respect" with "love, adoration, blind faith" and been just as inaccurate but just as representative of the common opinions expressed.I opened this thread hoping someone wanted to lay out pros and cons, or the different perspectives, for objective comparison, but instead we get the above and more like this:
These are opinions at best, maybe just faith-based prayers. No evidence whatsoever, and people who cite these types of things usually demonstrate they do not understand the meaning of evidence by saying things like, "you can just tell" or "you can just see it about him". How do you know his teammates love him by watching them on TV, and even if some do, how many of them - half, all, his five best friends, the 4 that get interviewed the most, or the ones whose comments are chosen to be included by reporters?? How do you determine that Teddy is better at healing or "defying odds" than other people? Because he was a star high school and college football player he has been imbued with those traits as well?
- "There is no doubt his coach, his teammates and people that know him, love him. If anyone can bounce back from this injury, it’s 5. "
- "Believe in 5, his teammates do, his coaches do. Believe in Teddy because if anyone is going to defy the odds, it’s going to be him."
"Realistic conversation"? Love it - but realism starts with acknowledging the limits to what fans (or anyone) can "know", comparing objectively, and recognizing when statements are wishful thinking. Too much of the Teddy support seems more like religion than science.
This is a pretty good post, Jor-El, abeit a little dismissive of things you can actually see in players by watching their behavior and how others respond to them. I don't need scientific evidence to tell me that Teddy is tough after watching him play Rutgers with a sprained ankle and a broken wrist, or evidence that he's loved by staff and team after watching him interact with others on the sideline and in the locker room. Because you can see it when it's not there, too (see Jeff George and Jay Cutler). I don't need scientific evidence to tell me that Matt Kalil wasn't a great leader of men or that Ray Lewis and Brett Favre had nearly destructive levels of passion for the game. Some things you can see.
I think the OP has an uplifting message; way more than I could've posted. I like it!
One of the greatest games (and tail gates, btw) I've been at was Teddy's first start vs Atlanta. Pretty sure we were picked to lose that one, but team was ready, and Teddy was awesome. It was a fantastic day to be a Viking fan, and the pre-game party along with seeing the game outside live is something I'll never forget.
The TeDEE! chants were almost deafening at times.
@"twgerber" said:@"StickyBun" said:@"twgerber" said:@"StickyBun" said:Did I say that? Carr had a far better 3rd year obviously and was in the running for MVP.@"twgerber" said:LOL, ok. So can we talk the 3 years prior to the 2017 season then? Jesus, I swear. If some of you can't even admit that Derek Carr is a better QB than Teddy, than what the hell is the use of discussion?@"StickyBun" said:Not according to them or Carr he is 100% healthy. And if he wasn't it was for the last game only. Not the first 4.@"twgerber" said:He's dealing with a back injury.@"StickyBun" said:And Carr/Oakland is not playing well right now. Or not nearly as well as I would have expected this year. Carr 2-3 6 turnovers with QBR 38.6. That's bad even if you dont' like QBR. He's just not playing well so far this year.@"Skodin" said: i disagree. other boards, comments sections in the star tribune etc, there is a lot of teddy doubt, there was a lot of doubt back in 2015 and going into 2016. I have seen many fans say he’s mediocre, or a game manager at best, especially in comparison to Carr That's because Carr is a franchise QB. Carr threw for 81 TDs and only 31 INTs his first 3 years. Teddy can't touch those numbers. Bridgewater might be mediocre or he could be better than that. How does that translate to hate? Its just the current facts.
So....what is your point then?Just noting that he seems to be having a down year this year after a magical year last year. Hopefully he rebounds because he was my second favorite QB coming out. QB's have up and down years. You never know.....
417 yards, 3 TDs and the win last night for Carr. You can't keep talent like that down for very long.
Thank goodness. Now I can go back to starting a few of the players on that team.
Also: I thought Oakland was going to find all these ways to use C. Patterson at WR: he has 11 receptions for 62 yards.
He's also got 10 rushes for 124 and 2 TDs...as well as a near 30 yard ave on 10 KRs...Kind of like here in Minnesota, the top 2 WRs garner the bulk of the attention...
@"BarrNone55" said: He's also got 10 rushes for 124 and 2 TDs...as well as a near 30 yard ave on 10 KRs...Kind of like here in Minnesota, the top 2 WRs garner the bulk of the attention...He'll always do great on KRs, for sure. He's amazing. Gadget run plays, same thing sporadically. But he's a WR. Or supposed to be. And that's what Oakland said all offseason they had in store for him. Its not happening. Nor was it going to happen. All that physical talent just can't be maximized. I liked CP and continue to root for the guy.
I have grown tired of this argument. Sam is who many thought he was. Skeptical about his knee and raised concerns. Now Teddy has the same concerns but he is now back and practicing. Sam looks to be pretty much done with the Vikings. Whats more to talk about?
In Case I trust as of now. This defense is one of the best in many years. We will go to the SB in our own house. In Case I trust
@"prairieghost" said: I happen to agree with Skodin. I think it depends on where you do your Internet browsing, but I'm on 3 or 4 fan pages on Facebook and there's quite a few people on those pages that are absolutely not Teddy fans. Anytime something is posted about Teddy, a lot of the articles are filled with fans saying he sucks, he's terrible, this, that and the other. In comparison to our board debate it's much more venomous. I don't really go to the Pioneer Press or Star Tribune so unless there's a linked article these are generally amateur/fan board articles that I'm seeing. And yeah, it isn't good. As for the other points Skodin makes, I definitely agree with him regarding the team and coaching support. They love him. They see everything we don't see because they are with him during practice, during workouts, during team meetings, and off the field. We don't know Teddy like they do. We don't see what they see. I'm encouraged by their excitement about his return. I'm not expecting miracles out of Teddy but I see him (in healthy condition) as an upgrade over Case by a fair bit. Neither Teddy or Case have Sam's arm talent, but Case moves well in the pocket, rolls out well, and has escapability. Teddy (pre-injury) possessed those same skills, to an even greater degree than Case. Will he still have that ability? We are going to find out soon, I believe.
I have identified the problem...."on facebook"
@"minny65" said:@"prairieghost" said: I happen to agree with Skodin. I think it depends on where you do your Internet browsing, but I'm on 3 or 4 fan pages on Facebook and there's quite a few people on those pages that are absolutely not Teddy fans. Anytime something is posted about Teddy, a lot of the articles are filled with fans saying he sucks, he's terrible, this, that and the other. In comparison to our board debate it's much more venomous. I don't really go to the Pioneer Press or Star Tribune so unless there's a linked article these are generally amateur/fan board articles that I'm seeing. And yeah, it isn't good. As for the other points Skodin makes, I definitely agree with him regarding the team and coaching support. They love him. They see everything we don't see because they are with him during practice, during workouts, during team meetings, and off the field. We don't know Teddy like they do. We don't see what they see. I'm encouraged by their excitement about his return. I'm not expecting miracles out of Teddy but I see him (in healthy condition) as an upgrade over Case by a fair bit. Neither Teddy or Case have Sam's arm talent, but Case moves well in the pocket, rolls out well, and has escapability. Teddy (pre-injury) possessed those same skills, to an even greater degree than Case. Will he still have that ability? We are going to find out soon, I believe.
I have identified the problem...."on facebook"Good point Minny, these are fan pages with articles written by fans (with occasional articles linked from NFL.com's FB page and/or Vikings.com's site). But I guess they're fans nonetheless and the followers who comment are apparently fans too....and apparently a fair number of them seem to think Teddy wasn't a very good QB prior to the injury and won't be post-injury, either.
I would really love to see Teddy return and prove all of his doubters wrong. I am worried about his knee as most are, but that doesn't stop me from wanting him to be the QB for this team.
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