Baker On Kyler

MaroonBells wrote:

I keep reading this narrative that says the Cardinals are paying Kyler Murray $37M to play elsewhere. While this is technically true, it’s a ridiculous oversimplification that ignores the reality of NFL contracts.
When the Cards decided to shut Murray down after his stint on IR, they were 3-9. At this point, Bidwell knew three things: 
1-The team wasn’t going anywhere and that there was a $19.5M contract bonus due Murray in March. If Murray suffered another injury late in the year and could not pass a team physical by the bonus deadline, his future salary would become fully, irrevocably guaranteed. That’s a total of $56M. By shutting Murray down, the front office completely eliminated the nightmare scenario of being forced to pay his massive guarantees due to a late-season injury. 
2-It would signal to the rest of the league that Murray is available, healthy, and ready for a fresh start, protecting whatever baseline trade value might remain. As it turned out, there was no trade value, but this is only because of the contract and the fact that the league knew the Cardinals would have to release him.
3-He was going to fire Gannon and search for a new head coach. Tying an incoming head coach to an expensive, highly specific quarterback is an easy way to scare away top coaching candidates. He wanted to offer the next regime complete roster freedom: “You have a top draft pick to get the guy you want” is infinitely more attractive than forcing a marriage.

Kyler Murray isn't an old, past his prime veteran or a young bust that a team gave up on. As you've put it, he's a former NFL offensive rookie of the Year, 2-time Pro Bowl QB who is just turning 29. Why would a team give up on that if there aren't some underlying issues? Especially when there has been some smoke from former teammates and things that have leaked out over the years?

Are the Bills going to release Josh Allen since they made a coaching change? Are the Ravens dumping Lamar since they fired Harbaugh? In the QB starved NFL, teams don't just start over at QB if the guy they have is productive and they don't have a better option on the bench. No one can tell me Brissett, Minshew, and Slovis made the Cardinals say yep that's our guy that is better than Kyler Murray. So what is it? Just a money thing and giving your new coach a fresh slate? Lol, you're smarter than that Maroon.

Like I said, I hope a fresh start and a new organization refreshes Kyler. I'd love nothing more than to have our QB spot locked up with a franchise QB for the foreseeable future, whether that is an energized Kyler or a refined JJ McCarthy.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Kyler Murray isn't an old, past his prime veteran or a young bust that a team gave up on. As you've put it, he's a former NFL offensive rookie of the Year, 2-time Pro Bowl QB who is just turning 29. Why would a team give up on that if there aren't some underlying issues? Especially when there has been some smoke from former teammates and things that have leaked out over the years?
Are the Bills going to release Josh Allen since they made a coaching change? Are the Ravens dumping Lamar since they fired Harbaugh? In the QB starved NFL, teams don't just start over at QB if the guy they have is productive and they don't have a better option on the bench. No one can tell me Brissett, Minshew, and Slovis made the Cardinals say yep that's our guy that is better than Kyler Murray. So what is it? Just a money thing and giving your new coach a fresh slate? Lol, you're smarter than that Maroon.
Like I said, I hope a fresh start and a new organization refreshes Kyler. I'd love nothing more than to have our QB spot locked up with a franchise QB for the foreseeable future, whether that is an energized Kyler or a refined JJ McCarthy.

Yes, that's exactly it. They wanted a reset. And yes, there were underlying issues. Nobody's ever argued that he's Josh Allen. He was hurt yet again and they would have to pay him $56M to keep him. Why do that if you've decided to reset, rebuild and bring in an entirely new offensive coaching staff? And, oh by the way, you have the #1 overall pick. What the Cards did was wise. Given the situation they were in, I would've done the same thing. I think every team in the NFL would have.

But to then argue that we should not have brought in Murray for $1.3M just so we can keep developing a QB who ranked 36th in a half dozen categories is just bewildering to me.

MaroonBells wrote:

Yes, that's exactly it. They wanted a reset. And yes, there were underlying issues. Nobody's ever argued that he's Josh Allen. He was hurt yet again and they would have to pay him $56M to keep him. Why do that if you've decided to reset, rebuild and bring in an entirely new offensive coaching staff? And, oh by the way, you have the #1 overall pick. What the Cards did was wise. Given the situation they were in, I would've done the same thing. I think every team in the NFL would have.
But to then argue that we should not have brought in Murray for $1.3M just so we can keep developing a QB who ranked 36th in a half dozen categories is just bewildering to me.

I think you need to go back and read my post again. You're coming to conclusions that aren't even there, bro.

Ya'll lost the plot.

MaroonBells wrote:

I keep reading this narrative that says the Cardinals are paying Kyler Murray $37M to play elsewhere. While this is technically true, it’s a ridiculous oversimplification that ignores the reality of NFL contracts.
When the Cards decided to shut Murray down after his stint on IR, they were 3-9. At this point, Bidwell knew three things: 
1-The team wasn’t going anywhere and that there was a $19.5M contract bonus due Murray in March. If Murray suffered another injury late in the year and could not pass a team physical by the bonus deadline, his future salary would become fully, irrevocably guaranteed. That’s a total of $56M. By shutting Murray down, the front office completely eliminated the nightmare scenario of being forced to pay his massive guarantees due to a late-season injury. 
2-It would signal to the rest of the league that Murray is available, healthy, and ready for a fresh start, protecting whatever baseline trade value might remain. As it turned out, there was no trade value, but this is only because of the contract and the fact that the league knew the Cardinals would have to release him.
3-He was going to fire Gannon and search for a new head coach. Tying an incoming head coach to an expensive, highly specific quarterback is an easy way to scare away top coaching candidates. He wanted to offer the next regime complete roster freedom: “You have a top draft pick to get the guy you want” is infinitely more attractive than forcing a marriage.

You're taking all the fun away from KM haters.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

I think you need to go back and read my post again. You're coming to conclusions that aren't even there, bro.
Ya'll lost the plot.

OK, so what are you arguing then? What is your position? Feel free to clarify.

MaroonBells wrote:

OK, so what are you arguing then? What is your position? Feel free to clarify.

Go back and read my posts in this thread. It's plain as day if you aren't pissed off or reading it through the lens of an angst filled teenager.

I don't know why it's so hard to allow people to be skeptical of Kyler. If he wins the QB job, I hope he does well because I want the Vikings to win. Simple as that.

I'm just tired of any time someone says anything even remotely negative about Kyler, you and JustinTime jump in and "correct" everyone and chastise people for not being all in on him.

It's tiring. I'm done.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Go back and read my posts in this thread. It's plain as day if you aren't pissed off or reading it through the lens of an angst filled teenager.
I don't know why it's so hard to allow people to be skeptical of Kyler. If he wins the QB job, I hope he does well because I want the Vikings to win. Simple as that.
I'm just tired of any time someone says anything even remotely negative about Kyler, you and JustinTime jump in and "correct" everyone and chastise people for not being all in on him.
It's tiring. I'm done.

Jumped on?

Calling out Can for posting easily refutable bull shit by post career stats is jumping on?

Hokay.

At least I didn’t bring his politics into it.

MaroonBells wrote:

I keep reading this narrative that says the Cardinals are paying Kyler Murray $37M to play elsewhere. While this is technically true, it’s a ridiculous oversimplification that ignores the reality of NFL contracts.
When the Cards decided to shut Murray down after his stint on IR, they were 3-9. At this point, Bidwell knew three things: 
1-The team wasn’t going anywhere and that there was a $19.5M contract bonus due Murray in March. If Murray suffered another injury late in the year and could not pass a team physical by the bonus deadline, his future salary would become fully, irrevocably guaranteed. That’s a total of $56M. By shutting Murray down, the front office completely eliminated the nightmare scenario of being forced to pay his massive guarantees due to a late-season injury. 
2-It would signal to the rest of the league that Murray is available, healthy, and ready for a fresh start, protecting whatever baseline trade value might remain. As it turned out, there was no trade value, but this is only because of the contract and the fact that the league knew the Cardinals would have to release him.
3-He was going to fire Gannon and search for a new head coach. Tying an incoming head coach to an expensive, highly specific quarterback is an easy way to scare away top coaching candidates. He wanted to offer the next regime complete roster freedom: “You have a top draft pick to get the guy you want” is infinitely more attractive than forcing a marriage.

This is a kind of nitpicky take of mine, but it’s not that no one traded for Kyler because they knew he would be free, but rather than no one wanted to trade for him for the price they would have to pay him.  Everyone knew he was going to the Vikings if he was free, their only option to get Kyler was to trade for him and pay whatever part of his contract the Cardinals didn’t absorb in the trade, and they probably could have had him for any amount of draft capital, but the contract was the sticking point.

I agree with most of your post, but I kind of just think the Cardinals were 50% done with Kyler (if only just for injuries) and 50% were like us with Kirk Cousins, where you go if he’s not the guy that’s getting us there, we have to go out and get that guy and we want a cap reset by the time we get that guy.  You know 2027 is supposedly loaded with QBs so try to get clean and maximize the rookie contract window.

My question on Murray is why there wasn't any team willing to pay even a portion of his contract? If AZ was going to cut him anyway, wouldn't it have been prudent to try to recover some of that money owed this year? Trade him for a bag of skittles and some cap relief.

badgervike wrote:

My question on Murray is why there wasn't any team willing to pay even a portion of his contract? If AZ was going to cut him anyway, wouldn't it have been prudent to try to recover some of that money owed this year? Trade him for a bag of skittles and some cap relief.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere at sometime, they did try to trade him -- tested the waters.

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Edit, here is what AI found:

Yes, the Az heavily explored trade options for quarterback Kyler Murray at the NFL Scouting Combine but could not find a team willing to take on his expensive contract, leading to his release.

The Cardinals desperately wanted to trade him rather than releasing him outright, but their efforts were stymied for a few key reasons:

• Contract Burden: Teams were unwilling to take on Murray’s large, remaining contract.

• Leverage: Other organizations knew the Cardinals were likely to cut him before his 2027 guarantees kicked in, allowing them to wait and pursue him as a free agent on a cheaper deal.

• Player Preference: Being released was actually Murray's preferred outcome, as it allowed him to become a free agent and choose his own destination.

Ultimately, Arizona had no takers. They released him, forcing the team to absorb roughly $55 million in dead cap while paying him a guaranteed $36.8 million to play elsewhere.

medaille wrote:

This is a kind of nitpicky take of mine, but it’s not that no one traded for Kyler because they knew he would be free, but rather than no one wanted to trade for him for the price they would have to pay him.  Everyone knew he was going to the Vikings if he was free, their only option to get Kyler was to trade for him and pay whatever part of his contract the Cardinals didn’t absorb in the trade, and they probably could have had him for any amount of draft capital, but the contract was the sticking point.
I agree with most of your post, but I kind of just think the Cardinals were 50% done with Kyler (if only just for injuries) and 50% were like us with Kirk Cousins, where you go if he’s not the guy that’s getting us there, we have to go out and get that guy and we want a cap reset by the time we get that guy.  You know 2027 is supposedly loaded with QBs so try to get clean and maximize the rookie contract window.

Yes, I agree, of course the contract was the big issue here. But they were tied together. The reason teams knew he would be released is because they knew no one was going to pay the draft capital, the contract AND the bonus.