SI.com: Vikings to build off last year's comeback season

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins.  He has the right personality to lead a young group of players.  In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB.  See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.

So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st. 

Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)

I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight.  I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR.  He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed.  My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most.  He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.

If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan  =)  Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him.  Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising.  Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field.  Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.  

You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks. 

So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem. 

Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST. 

There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins.  He has the right personality to lead a young group of players.  In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB.  See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.

So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st. 

Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)

I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight.  I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR.  He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed.  My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most.  He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.

If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan  =)  Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him.  Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising.  Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field.  Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.  

You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks. 

So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem. 

Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST. 

There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!

Really? Strange since Watson was one of the best rookie receivers last year despite playing in only 14 games. 700 yards in total offense, 9 TD's, and second in average yards per catch amongst rookie receivers. I'd be ecstatic if we get that kind of production out of Addison this season. 

Williams is a year off an ACL injury and most didn't think he'd be ready at all last year as he recovered. The Williams pick was always a "projection towards the future" pick, as I think you liked to put it. The suspension is unfortunate but if I were a betting man, I'd bet Williams makes a bigger impact for the Lions this year than Cine does for the Vikings 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins.  He has the right personality to lead a young group of players.  In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB.  See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.

So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st. 

Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)

I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight.  I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR.  He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed.  My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most.  He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.

If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan  =)  Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him.  Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising.  Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field.  Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.  

You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks. 

So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem. 

Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST. 

There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!

Really? Strange since Watson was one of the best rookie receivers last year despite playing in only 14 games. 700 yards in total offense, 9 TD's, and second in average yards per catch amongst rookie receivers. I'd be ecstatic if we get that kind of production out of Addison this season. 

Williams is a year off an ACL injury and most didn't think he'd be ready at all last year as he recovered. The Williams pick was always a "projection towards the future" pick, as I think you liked to put it. The suspension is unfortunate but if I were a betting man, I'd bet Williams makes a bigger impact for the Lions this year than Cine does for the Vikings 

Addison will be our #2 or #3 receiver this year. Watson is the Packers WR1. He caught 41 passes for 411 yards with a HOF QB throwing him the ball. KJO caught 60 for 650.

So yeah, kudos. Watsons is almost as good as our WR3. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins.  He has the right personality to lead a young group of players.  In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB.  See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.

So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st. 

Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)

I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight.  I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR.  He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed.  My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most.  He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.

If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan  =)  Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him.  Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising.  Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field.  Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.  

You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks. 

So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem. 

Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST. 

There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!

Really? Strange since Watson was one of the best rookie receivers last year despite playing in only 14 games. 700 yards in total offense, 9 TD's, and second in average yards per catch amongst rookie receivers. I'd be ecstatic if we get that kind of production out of Addison this season. 

Williams is a year off an ACL injury and most didn't think he'd be ready at all last year as he recovered. The Williams pick was always a "projection towards the future" pick, as I think you liked to put it. The suspension is unfortunate but if I were a betting man, I'd bet Williams makes a bigger impact for the Lions this year than Cine does for the Vikings 

Addison will be our #2 or #3 receiver this year. Watson is the Packers WR1. He caught 41 passes for 411 yards with a HOF QB throwing him the ball. KJO caught 60 for 650.

So yeah, kudos. Watsons is almost as good as our WR3. 

Wrong, 611 yards receiving and almost another 100 on the ground. But let's not let information and perspective get in the way of a good "our GM shits gold bricks and everyone else sucks" rant 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JR44" said: I believe KOC was the big difference with the transformation last year of Cousins in terms of his performance in the clutch and his leadership skills, I think he continues to have a positive effect on Cousins.  He has the right personality to lead a young group of players.  In terms of the team as a whole, I don't think we have improved from a personnel standpoint over the past two drafts, last year we did not get one impact player and I don't think a 172# WR was what this team needed with the holes on defense and the lack of a future QB.  See a future with KOC, but do not think we will improve with who we have managing the roster.

So, because Addison is 172 lbs (exactly the same size as DeVonta Smith), he was a bad pick, despite the fact that the Vikings had only Jalen Nailor inked through 2024...and Cine, Booth and Evans, because they were hurt last year, are not impact players either. And Asamoah, who was drafted to replace Kendricks his 2nd year, was a bad pick too because he was behind Kendricks his 1st. 

Got it. One thing's for certain...you are a Viking fan. :-)

I live in LA, am a USC fan and watched most of his snaps last year, so I am basing my opinion on a lot more than his weight.  I never once thought of him as a first round pick or a dominant WR.  He wasn't able to consistently stay on the field and often when he was he was not able to go full speed.  My biggest issue with him was that he didn't seem to step up when the team needed him the most.  He is a great route runner with good hands, very smooth, but didn't see that toughness that a lot of great smaller WRs have. Hope his skills translate to the NFL, but I think Osborn and Nailor will be ahead of him when season starts.

If you are defending last year's draft, then you are the one who is definitely a Viking's fan  =)  Cine well before he was hurt never looked like a first rounder, in fact when we had injuries at the safety spot it was a UDFA who played in front of him.  Booth did not look great when healthy, Evans looks promising.  Asamoah had plenty of opportunities to get on the field.  Combined with the head scratching trade and that we did not address the holes we had in switching to a 3-4 and last year's draft was a disaster. I thought it really hurt us down the stretch and in the playoffs, cause we had no depth.  

You mean disaster because 3 of our top 4 picks were hurt and not because they were bad picks, right? Because that would be ridiculously premature. Even our best draft class ever (2015), none of the players started right away. Not Waynes, not Diggs, not Hunter, not Kendricks. 

So this was the top of our draft last year. Combine that with the fact we traded within the division to allow rivals to move up and draft the pass catchers they needed, and yeah as of right now, our draft last year looks like a flaming sack of dog crap. Watson is going to beva very good player for the Packers and despite the suspension, I absolutely believe Jameson Williams is going to be a problem. 

Right now there’s a Packers version of you on a Packers board saying they can’t count on Christian Watson because he’s injury prone. He had knee surgery in training camp, then missed time with hamstring, head, ankle and hip injuries. And even when he was healthy, he can’t catch the damn ball! His drop rate is the highest in the NFL among starting receivers. BUST. 

There’s also a Lions version of you bitching about how Jameson Williams is a bust. How they gave up 3 picks to move up for him and he caught ONE pass all year. He was healthy for 6 games and couldn’t start a single one because, according to his coach, “it wasn’t clicking” for him. And now he’s suspended for 6 games? Flaming sack of dog crap!!

Really? Strange since Watson was one of the best rookie receivers last year despite playing in only 14 games. 700 yards in total offense, 9 TD's, and second in average yards per catch amongst rookie receivers. I'd be ecstatic if we get that kind of production out of Addison this season. 

Williams is a year off an ACL injury and most didn't think he'd be ready at all last year as he recovered. The Williams pick was always a "projection towards the future" pick, as I think you liked to put it. The suspension is unfortunate but if I were a betting man, I'd bet Williams makes a bigger impact for the Lions this year than Cine does for the Vikings 

Addison will be our #2 or #3 receiver this year. Watson is the Packers WR1. He caught 41 passes for 411 yards with a HOF QB throwing him the ball. KJO caught 60 for 650.

So yeah, kudos. Watsons is almost as good as our WR3. 

Wrong, 611 yards receiving and almost another 100 on the ground. But let's not let information and perspective get in the way of a good "our GM shits gold bricks and everyone else sucks" rant 

Oh yes, my bad. 611 yards. Still less than our WR3. Next stop....

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement

Ya if we could ditch these new guys and get Ricky back we could spend another 15 years not getting to a Super Bowl.

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement

From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement

From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.

When you lose but know you have the talent to win as evidenced by last season, then yeah, that's frustrating and nobody likes losing or feeling the heat being on the hot seat. As cantankerous as Zimmer could be its not surprising they werent seeing eye to eye at the end. A GM's job though is to supply the roster with the talent to win football games, and Rick did that pretty consistently over his tenure. The cornerstones of this roster were drafted or acquired by Rick Spielman and we won 13 games last season with the talent he assembled. Somebody wake me when we get a cornerstone roster player brought in by the stat geek .

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"1VikesFan" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"StickyBun" said: Yep. Some fans here don't see that it isn't a garden party in other places for the draft picks Kwesi 'f-d up' by NOT drafting. But again, don't let information and perspective get in the way of a good 'the GM sucks' rant.

I think you can look at any team's draft history and see similar hits and misses.  Even the best GMs get it wrong more often than not.  Even with the abundance of research and data there is no way to determine how someone's skills and sometimes even more importantly their mentality and emotional fortitude is going to carry over to the NFL level.  We have a friend from college who completely struggled in college and is now one of the highest paid at ESPN.  You never know, there are so many things out of a GMs control, but draft picks and players are capital and one of the things that GMs can control is to try to maximize the value of that capital and that is one area that I personally feel Kwesi has not done well in.  I didn't expect him to be a great GM, I didn't see how he was qualified for the role and it has been what I expected.  The TJ trade was brilliant and I think we have done an excellent job in some of the later rounds and in UDFA, so I think there is promise that he will improve all around as he moves forward in the role.  

Qualified for the role? So how does a GM become one? Or a VP? They weren't born that way, someone decided when they are a step below that that their upside is to the level they are being brought in for. KAM's been on the job for just over a year and in charge of 2 Drafts.....we aren't going to wait and see how it pans out? Snap, knee jerk reactions are just so what some fans do. I find it goofy. Capital? LOL, you either hit on guys you pick or you don't. The most overrated part is the 'capital' because salary caps keep going UP. Honest to God, if I hear one more arm chair GM talk about 'value', I'm going to vomit.

Tell me how he was qualified and how he got the job over guys who actually worked in a personnel role.  Show me any kind of personnel experience.  Prior to coming here he worked in research and operations.  

Also, why can't any of us express a negative view about Kwesi without being bashed and criticized ?  Seems hypocritical.  In my opinion, I think he was not the right hire and I am not a fan of what he has done here. That is my opinion, I admit it could be right or wrong, but am I not allowed to express it here on a message board which is why we are all here?

The traditional scout-->general manager NFL career track may be evolving to more of an analytics based overseer with strong input from the scouting department.  

And Rick forced various picks over the objections of his scouts--Christian Ponder for one.  The Vikings found themselves with a coach and g.m. who both thought they were unquestionable, fought with each other for control, and ended up fired as a result.

So it's not surprising they tried a new direction. Younger, analytical, collaborative, etc.  I don't know if it will succeed; I've seen some things I like and some things I don't.   I'm critical when I think it's warranted and vice versa.  I'm in wait and see mode at this point.

Say what you want about Rick, and I've been critical of him for things in the past, but we essentially won all those games last year with HIS roster. So it clearly wasn't for a lack of talent that we were coming up short with Zimmer. I had no problem moving on from Zimmer, but I still contend moving off Spielman was a mistake especially in light of what I've seen from Adolfo-Mensah so far

Disagree, I believe Rick was as toxic as Zim in the end. They both needed to go.

Based on what? Him not getting along with Zimmer at the end? Who cares. That's football and it's rarely all cotton candy and rainbows especially over prolonged periods of time. Rick's job was to supply the roster with talent to compete. Zimmers job was to coach that talent to get the most out of them. Spielman did his job, Zimmer did not.

If you say so. Definitely know your opinion on Kwesi and Spielman. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

I didn't ask you to agree. You stated Spielman was toxic and I just asked you for some clarification on that statement

From many things I have read Zimmer and Spielman had a really bad relationship which which had an effect on the entire organization. It takes two to tango and I don't believe it was all on Zimmer. Just my take on the situation.

When you lose but know you have the talent to win as evidenced by last season, then yeah, that's frustrating and nobody likes losing or feeling the heat being on the hot seat. As cantankerous as Zimmer could be its not surprising they werent seeing eye to eye at the end. A GM's job though is to supply the roster with the talent to win football games, and Rick did that pretty consistently over his tenure. The cornerstones of this roster were drafted or acquired by Rick Spielman and we won 13 games last season with the talent he assembled. Somebody wake me when we get a cornerstone roster player brought in by the stat geek .

You can't rate a draft after one season and you sure as hell can't rate a GM after one draft. I understand you loved Spielman and can't stand Kwesi. Let's just agree to disagree and move on already.