Some Draft Grades:

@supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

The Bears offseason has been brutal (I will add the disclaimer-we won't know anything until year 3 since everyone needs to be reminded that none of us know jack and this is a discussion board not a panel of rocket scientists or NFL GM's:).  Poles has done very little to help Fields, in fact it looks like the OL and WR core are worse. Yikes.  They look to be backing up to get a running start :) and might be the worst team in the NFC.  That said, we better f'in beat them twice this year!!!!

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Walter football with some post draft knee jerk alarmist stuff. They must not know Kwesi and his 8 years of analytics experience is the smartest man in football...First-Day Winners

 Detroit Lions
 Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan  Jameson Williams, WR, Alabama
When you have two first-round picks, it can be easy to look good, and Detroit did that. The Lions, however, went above and beyond with a brilliant trade-up in the first round. At No. 2 overall, they landed a long-term feature edge rusher in Aidan Hutchinson to build their team around. Many other franchises viewed Hutchinson as the safest pick in the 2022 NFL Draft.

When the 12th pick rolled around, it was shocking to see Detroit pop up on the clock. They absolutely ripped off the Vikings in trading up 20 spots and essentially only giving up a third-round pick. The Lions then used the 12th pick to take Williams, a speedster who could be their long-term No. 1 receiver, and add a game breaker to their offense. The Lions were a big rebuilding project when they hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell. After two drafts, they are off to a great start, adding premium talents with first-round picks Penei Sewell, Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams.

First-Day Losers

 Minnesota Vikings
 Lewis Cine, C, Georgia
The Vikings aren't losers because of their selection of Cine. He is a tough safety who is well-rounded and looks like a very safe choice to turn into a good starter. Minnesota took Cine with the 32nd pick, however, because the organization's trade down with the Lions was horrific, letting Detroit general manager Brad Holmes take the Vikings to the cleaners. Detroit jumped up from No. 32 to No. 12 and the only additional pick Minnesota really got for that massive drop down was a third-rounder. The second-round pick moved up 10 spots, which ended up being minimal. The Vikings dropping 20 spots in the first round would typically cost at least a first-round pick in the next year's draft, if not more.

On top of the trade being lopsided from a value perspective, the Vikings helped a division rival get a potential No. 1 wide receiver and game breaker in Jameson Williams. Williams is a speed demon with rare explosive playmaking ability. Helping the Lions to acquire him and now having to cover Williams twice a year for many years to come are both inexcusable. The trade was an awful start for the new regime and rookie general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.

Do you think this is somehow validation for your opinion? I can post other links that show the opposite, that the Vikings draft was perceived as very good.

Never said KAM is/was beyond reproach, not sure anyone is saying that. But you're saying it 100% definitively sucks, which we have no idea about yet. And why did you throw Biden in at the end of your little rant, lol? 

It's just further validation that there are plenty of others out there who were also skeptical of the draft and how it was conducted by a man who was a skeptical hire in the first place. Sure we are all forced to wait it out to see how it plays out, but that doesn't change the surface perception that a lot of dumb moves were made by the new golden boy. If it all miraculously turns out in our favor down the line, I'll never criticize the man again, but this has been a real lackluster first offseason capped by a draft littered with questionable moves. If "the plan" is to shuffle the cap every offseason to keep Cousins and kick the can down the road, sign lower tier free agents, and get absolutely raped in draft compensation by our division rivals while trying to be smarter then everybody else...then the plan 100% definitively sucks. 

The Biden reference was just for the blind squirrels who believe that just because he's in charge that he must be smarter then everybody else and knows what he's doing, ala Kwesi. That's certainly not the case with our moron in Chief, and might not be the case with Kwesi either..so it's okay to be critical of questionable decisions. I mean this is still a message board last time I checked. If that's changed let me know.  

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"supafreak84" said: Walter football with some post draft knee jerk alarmist stuff. They must not know Kwesi and his 8 years of analytics experience is the smartest man in football...First-Day Winners

 Detroit Lions
 Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan  Jameson Williams, WR, Alabama
When you have two first-round picks, it can be easy to look good, and Detroit did that. The Lions, however, went above and beyond with a brilliant trade-up in the first round. At No. 2 overall, they landed a long-term feature edge rusher in Aidan Hutchinson to build their team around. Many other franchises viewed Hutchinson as the safest pick in the 2022 NFL Draft.

When the 12th pick rolled around, it was shocking to see Detroit pop up on the clock. They absolutely ripped off the Vikings in trading up 20 spots and essentially only giving up a third-round pick. The Lions then used the 12th pick to take Williams, a speedster who could be their long-term No. 1 receiver, and add a game breaker to their offense. The Lions were a big rebuilding project when they hired general manager Brad Holmes and head coach Dan Campbell. After two drafts, they are off to a great start, adding premium talents with first-round picks Penei Sewell, Aidan Hutchinson and Jameson Williams.

First-Day Losers

 Minnesota Vikings
 Lewis Cine, C, Georgia
The Vikings aren't losers because of their selection of Cine. He is a tough safety who is well-rounded and looks like a very safe choice to turn into a good starter. Minnesota took Cine with the 32nd pick, however, because the organization's trade down with the Lions was horrific, letting Detroit general manager Brad Holmes take the Vikings to the cleaners. Detroit jumped up from No. 32 to No. 12 and the only additional pick Minnesota really got for that massive drop down was a third-rounder. The second-round pick moved up 10 spots, which ended up being minimal. The Vikings dropping 20 spots in the first round would typically cost at least a first-round pick in the next year's draft, if not more.

On top of the trade being lopsided from a value perspective, the Vikings helped a division rival get a potential No. 1 wide receiver and game breaker in Jameson Williams. Williams is a speed demon with rare explosive playmaking ability. Helping the Lions to acquire him and now having to cover Williams twice a year for many years to come are both inexcusable. The trade was an awful start for the new regime and rookie general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.

Do you think this is somehow validation for your opinion? I can post other links that show the opposite, that the Vikings draft was perceived as very good.

Never said KAM is/was beyond reproach, not sure anyone is saying that. But you're saying it 100% definitively sucks, which we have no idea about yet. And why did you throw Biden in at the end of your little rant, lol? 

It's just further validation that there are plenty of others out there who were also skeptical of the draft and how it was conducted by a man who was a skeptical hire in the first place. Sure we are all forced to wait it out to see how it plays out, but that doesn't change the surface perception that a lot of dumb moves were made by the new golden boy. If it all miraculously turns out in our favor down the line, I'll never criticize the man again, but this has been a real lackluster first offseason capped by a draft littered with questionable moves. If "the plan" is to shuffle the cap every offseason to keep Cousins and kick the can down the road, sign lower tier free agents, and get absolutely raped in draft compensation by our division rivals while trying to be smarter then everybody else...then the plan 100% definitively sucks. 

The Biden reference was just for the blind squirrels who believe that just because he's in charge that he must be smarter then everybody else and knows what he's doing, ala Kwesi. That's certainly not the case with our moron in Chief, and might not be the case with Kwesi either..so it's okay to be critical of questionable decisions. I mean this is still a message board last time I checked. If that's changed let me know.  

Who's the 'golden boy'? I think there has been plenty of questioning of the round 1 trade....by almost everyone on the board. It isn't about you or anyone else being 'critical'....you're way beyond that. Whether you see it or not. And you keep grabbing more crap to add to your rants (Biden, Cousins, etc.) about KAM. It is a message board and I'm calling it like I see it as well....and I see you as a dog with a bone.

I think this is right following the picks: 

Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah for;

Williams,Watson, Pierce, Raimann, Ogletree. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

Yea I think Kwesi showed his inexperience with the initial trade down and I really don't think Spelly would have been fleeced there.  But I expected some bumps and bruises along the way with a new GM just like I expect some bumps and bruises with our new inexperienced HC - KOC.   I certainly wouldn't say Kwesi moved around "like a boss" unless just moving around for the sake of moving around makes you a boss :)  I think Kwesi could have done better and I think Spelly would have.  At the end of the day if you told me we got Booth and Cine (in any order) I would say not bad.  I like Booth.  Not of fan of Ingram or the tweener will LB.  Good recoup with GB to get Booth - IMO - but still just OK overall grade on Kwesi from me (I hope he can sleep at night knowing my opinion).  

Again, a very hoo hum offseason, especially when you have a whole new regime.  Very similar to status quo - IMO.  The more things change the more things stay the same :)  

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the trade down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the trade down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. 

Doesn't "maneuvering around the board to achieve optimum value" go out the window after you've traded our biggest draft asset for a 3rd round pick and a bag of peanuts? To me it does when evaluating the draft in its entirety 

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/.amp/news/nfl-executives-scouts-kwesi-adofo-mensah-first-draft-vikings-gm

Thought there were some interesting takes in here from NFL execs and scouts.

@"Wetlander" said: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/.amp/news/nfl-executives-scouts-kwesi-adofo-mensah-first-draft-vikings-gm

Thought there were some interesting takes in here from NFL execs and scouts.

@"StickyBun" said:

@"Wetlander" said: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/.amp/news/nfl-executives-scouts-kwesi-adofo-mensah-first-draft-vikings-gm

Thought there were some interesting takes in here from NFL execs and scouts.

I read that as well, yep interesting for sure. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the trade down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value.

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the tra
de down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. 

Doesn't "maneuvering around the board to achieve optimum value" go out the window after you've traded our biggest draft asset for a 3rd round pick and a bag of peanuts? To me it does when evaluating the draft in its entirety 

No, why would it? The trade down was a good idea. I was hoping we would trade down. We just didn't get the return I think we should have. I think settling for what we got was a mistake, and I don't care how many "other" trade charts you bring in to shine it up. Not sure how many times I have to say that. But I liked pretty much everything else about the draft. 

Look, if you're fair (and honest), you're going to see things you like and things you don't. But if all you see is bad, you sorta have to question your motive. 

@"Wetlander" said: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/.amp/news/nfl-executives-scouts-kwesi-adofo-mensah-first-draft-vikings-gm

Thought there were some interesting takes in here from NFL execs and scouts.

I also watched the documentary on the 1983 NFL Draft last night. Ernie Acorsi was the GM of Baltimore at the time and had drafted the rights to John Elway who didn't want to play for the Colts. Baltimore received a great trade offer from New England, who was a division rival at the time. Acorsi goes, "the price tag goes way up when dealing with division rivals because you have to face that player...and I didnt want to have to face John twice a year." I immediately thought of Kwesi when I heard that 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the tra
de down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. 

Doesn't "maneuvering around the board to achieve optimum value" go out the window after you've traded our biggest draft asset for a 3rd round pick and a bag of peanuts? To me it does when evaluating the draft in its entirety 

No, why would it? The trade down was a good idea. I was hoping we would trade down. We just didn't get the return I think we should have. I think settling for what we got was a mistake, and I don't care how many "other" trade charts you bring in to shine it up. Not sure how many times I have to say that. But I liked pretty much everything else about the draft. 

Look, if you're fair (and honest), you're going to see things you like and things you don't. But if all you see is bad, you sorta have to question your motive. 

I guess that's the big difference. This was not considered a strong class and we traded out of an top half draft spot with a lot of upper echelon prospects to a much lower position for peanuts, and drafted a safety who's a good player...but he's still a safety. I rewatched the National Championship game last night and outside of Will Anderson, Jameson Williams was the best player on that field prior to the knee injury. Cine made a couple tackles but otherwise didn't do much. I like Booth but thought the rest of the draft was unspectacular. All the trading was maddening and at the end of the day did we get value? That's a hard question to answer much less track all the trades and what picks ended up being what. Like the article Wet posted, it seems like at a point we were just trading to trade with no real plan. It was a strange draft, a disappointing draft, and I can't say with any real certainty that we are a significantly better team as a result of it. No motives, that's just my honest and fair opinion. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Wetlander" said: @supafreak84 @minny65

I'm right there with you on some draft critiques...  not a fan of the intra divisional trading, but at least Kwesi got a haul from the Packers.  Complete missed opportunity to acquire future draft capital from the Lions...  and we again gave up a future 4th again...  don't need to rehash everything again, but it was a mixed bag on draft weekend.

That said, I am onboard with most of our off-season moves.  We added some good young talent at CB, got an elite edge rusher to pair with Danielle, and pretty much threw bodies at all of our potential weak spots.

In the end it felt very Spielman-esque...  which I was hoping we'd see something different.  But I'll give Kwesi a chance.  It's not like Poles (a football guy) knocked it out of the park in Chicago.  Look at their off-season and draft...  I would have expected them to do what a lot of teams are doing with young QBs on rookie contracts...  Surround him with weapons and invest in defense.  Poles added to their secondary but the only WRs they added are Byron Pringle, Equanimious St. Brown, and Velus Jones...  all while watching Allen Robinson leave and now Darnell Mooney and Cole Kmet are his top two receiving options.

As much as I wish our off-season went a little different, I'd much rather have what we did than what the Bears did...  we're a heck of a lot closer to being a playoff team than Chicago.

It's funny, I was hoping we WOULDN'T see something different. Not only was Spielman one of the better drafting GMs in the NFL, he was also unafraid to maneuver around the draft to achieve the best value. My fear was the the rookie GM wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. Or wouldn't have the established relationships necessary to pull off a trade. But he danced around the draft like a boss. That bodes well for the future. Now, we just need him to hold out for a little more in return when he's trading a top 12 pick. 

He danced around the draft "like a boss?!" Maroon, you are a draft guy, so I'm a little confused about that statement. We were absolutely fleeced by the Lions in a massive trade down. The Packers trade was a little better value wise but we still allowed our biggest rival to move way up into our pick in the second round to draft the WR they wanted and badly needed. We had to give up more picks to move back up in the round to grab Booth when corners started flying off the board. So the relationships that were formed in trading down with division rivals were that these GM's now know they can maneuver with us within the division for market value or below market value compensation. That's not a good thing, and speaking of Spielman, something he never would have went for with a rival unless the compensation was overwhelmingly in our favor. Outside of some of these Mike Tice era drafts, this was probably the strangest, most head scratching drafts I've ever witnessed as a Vikings fan. But hey, I guess I'm a dog with a bone...so there's that 

-----

Yeah, I don't see it that way at all. I think I've made myself clear that I thought the tra
de down with the Lions could've, SHOULD'VE resulted in more for us. But, as I've also said repeatedly, that's where my problem with the draft ended. Really happy with the players we drafted and the way Kwesi maneuvered around the draft to achieve optimum value. 

For example, the move you didn't like to get Booth was exactly the kind of maneuvering I'm talking about. Everyone thinks teams target players. They typically don't outside the top 10. They target TIERS of players. I suspect the Vikings, like most of us, had McCreary, Gordon and Booth in a tier together. After Gordon went off the board, I told my son "now, if this were Rick, he would use some of that draft capital we just got and trade up here to get Booth." About 10 minutes later, Kwesi did exactly that. That was a move that made me realize we're in pretty good hands after having serious doubts about that on Thursday night. 

And as I've said before, I have no trouble trading within the division. If you're confident you're making a good trade, who cares what team you screwed over. If you're worried YOU are the one that got screwed, you probably shouldn't be trading in the first place. 

Doesn't "maneuvering around the board to achieve optimum value" go out the window after you've traded our biggest draft asset for a 3rd round pick and a bag of peanuts? To me it does when evaluating the draft in its entirety 

No, why would it? The trade down was a good idea. I was hoping we would trade down. We just didn't get the return I think we should have. I think settling for what we got was a mistake, and I don't care how many "other" trade charts you bring in to shine it up. Not sure how many times I have to say that. But I liked pretty much everything else about the draft. 

Look, if you're fair (and honest), you're going to see things you like and things you don't. But if all you see is bad, you sorta have to question your motive. 

I guess that's the big difference. This was not considered a strong class and we traded out of an top half draft spot with a lot of upper echelon prospects to a much lower position for peanuts, and drafted a safety who's a good player...but he's still a safety. I rewatched the National Championship game last night and outside of Will Anderson, Jameson Williams was the best player on that field prior to the knee injury. Cine made a couple tackles but otherwise didn't do much. I like Booth but thought the rest of the draft was unspectacular. All the trading was maddening and at the end of the day did we get value? That's a hard question to answer much less track all the trades and what picks ended up being what. Like the article Wet posted, it seems like at a point we were just trading to trade with no real plan. It was a strange draft, a disappointing draft, and I can't say with any real certainty that we are a significantly better team as a result of it. No motives, that's just my honest and fair opinion. 

Well, he was named the Defensive MVP of that game.

@"Wetlander" said: https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/.amp/news/nfl-executives-scouts-kwesi-adofo-mensah-first-draft-vikings-gm

Thought there were some interesting takes in here from NFL execs and scouts.

I dont know if KAM is bat-shit trade crazy? Smarter than the rest of us? Or somewhere in between?

I do know the unconventional approach has made this old-time fan a bit uneasy

I also wonder what his draft behavior will be next year - especially in regards to what is considered a pretty good qb crop. 

These are questions that'll take a few seasons to figure out...