The case for WR in the first...
The Vikings pick just outside the top 10 so should have some pretty good options. I think WR should be a strong consideration.
The case for WR at 12:
1. The premium positions in today's NFL are QB, WR, OT, Edge, and CB. This is a terrible QB class so I am crossing out QB at 12. We are set at OT. That leaves WR, Edge, and CB. Arguably, our biggest need is at CB but we did sign a couple of CBs in FA. We also signed ZaDarius Smith and we are getting Hunter back. We have added nothing at WR.
2. What positions are getting paid now in the NFL? QB, of course, but I have already nixed this QB class at 12. And WR. Thielen is still very good but he could well be gone after this year. And at his age he is struggling to get through a full season. I don't have much faith in ISM or KJ to be a top WR2.
3. In a couple of years Jefferson will demand at least $30M/year. Cousins will be gone. We will need another top receiver, preferably one on a rookie deal.
4. There is talent in this WR class worthy of going in the top 10: Wilson, Williams, and Olave. Someone can try to talk me into London. I know he is seen as WR1 in this class but I don't see it. He catches everything but he's never open. Does that translate to success in the NFL? Is he Keyshawn? Brandon Marshall?
The case against WR at 12:
1. Yes this is a strong WR class. That means there will be some very good players at 46.
2. Every WR class has some stars in it. There is nothing special about this class. (Maybe, but next year we will likely need to draft a QB in the first. So we will not have this opportunity in next year's draft.)
3. Smith and Hunter come with big injury concerns. The Vikings lucked out with Hunter in the 3rd. That will not happen again. Everyone is looking for pass rushers. If we want a top Edge, we will need to draft him now. And we are paper thin at CB. (We drafted 2 DEs last year. Robinson never played. Give them a chance. It should be WR and CB, or CB and WR in this draft.)
4. The offense is fine. The defense has sucked for 2 years now. If Stingley or one of the top Edge rushers are available, take one of them and leave WR for later. (But this FA we have added to the defense and to IOL. We do not have the cap space to add WR talent in FA. So draft one.)
If Wilson, Williams, Olave, Stingley, and Jermain Johnson are all available at 12, who should he Vikings take? I would be disappointed with Johnson and would love any of the rest.
@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.
Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I don't believe in "shut down" corners anymore. You just grab a guy you hope is athletic enough to make a play a couple times a game and keep damage to a minimum. Like I said, if it's Sauce or Stingley I'm all aboard. I'm not taking the third ranked corner who happens to be 5'10" with the 12th overall pick in the draft.
But yeah I think the two receivers we'd look at there would be Wilson and Olave
@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
With London I'm seeing the same kind of things I saw with Treadwell. Big, physical, high point jump ball guy who should be good in the red zone, but no separation and no juice.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
With London I'm seeing the same kind of things I saw with Treadwell. Big, physical, high point jump ball guy who should be good in the red zone, but no separation and no juice.
I think London is better than Treadwell (perhaps I am affected by Treadwell's performance in the NFL) but your point is well taken and I generally agree. The issue, though, is that I do not remember anybody suggesting that Treadwell was anywhere close to the best WR in his draft. ...I like the idea of WR at 12 (or Stingley, but that seems unlikely) but I would not like London there.
@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
With London I'm seeing the same kind of things I saw with Treadwell. Big, physical, high point jump ball guy who should be good in the red zone, but no separation and no juice.
I think London is better than Treadwell (perhaps I am affected by Treadwell's performance in the NFL) but your point is well taken and I generally agree. The issue, though, is that I do not remember anybody suggesting that Treadwell was anywhere close to the best WR in his draft. ...I like the idea of WR at 12 (or Stingley, but that seems unlikely) but I would not like London there.
London would be a cat through the Samsung pick for me.If you look back at big boards in Feb and Marsh of 2016, Treadwell was generally considered the top WR in that class. He started to fall a bit as we got closer to the draft, but he had a lot of big fans. In fact, we had a several page thread about the receivers in that draft. Nobody wanted to hear that I thought he was the most overrated receiver I watched.
Full disclosure, I thought Doctson would be better than he was. But that whole 1st round receiver class was dogshit. Every receiver taken in the 2nd round ended up much better than every receiver taken in the 1st round.
There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup.
@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup.Wow. I haven't seen that anywhere. IMO, Ourlads has the best depth charts. They seem to be the most accurate and up to date. Right now, they have Tomlinson as NT with Phillips and Watts as the 5-techs. That's the right three IMO. But pretty sure Phillips will be at nose with Tomlinson and Watts outside. But I agree that 5T is definitely among the considerations at #12.
https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/MIN
@"MaroonBells" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. Wow. I haven't seen that anywhere. IMO, Ourlads has the best depth charts. They seem to be the most accurate and up to date. Right now, they have Tomlinson as NT with Phillips and Watts as the 5-techs. That's the right three IMO. But pretty sure Phillips will be at nose with Tomlinson and Watts outside. But I agree that 5T is definitely among the considerations at #12.https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/MIN
How would Davis look at one of those edge positions? I dont know as much about a 3-4, but it seems that a hyper athletic big man would fit nicely in that role, I know he is mainly known for being a run stopping plug due to his size and resume, but those athletic numbers make me envision much more for him if given the chance. I would be even more sure of taking him if Andre was still here to groom him, I dont even know who our new DL coach is or his resume with molding young lumps of clay.
@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup.The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.
If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).
I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
@"dadevike" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
B for me, without a doubt. Jameson WIlliams isnt healthy yet and Garrett Wilson/OSU receivers only ran crossing routes and fade routes it seemed. Not saying either wont be good, I could see them taking a little while to get there. Skyy Moore and Alec Pierce are two guys I have liked for quite some time and would be thrilled with them in the 2nd round.As for Karlaftis, that dude just loved to F*CK up Iowa's OL, every single year. He had a sack or forced fumble in 16/26 college games. He may not be an All Pro DE, but I think he winds up having a very solid career
@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
B for me, without a doubt. Jameson WIlliams isnt healthy yet and Garrett Wilson/OSU receivers only ran crossing routes and fade routes it seemed. Not saying either wont be good, I could see them taking a little while to get there. Skyy Moore and Alec Pierce are two guys I have liked for quite some time and would be thrilled with them in the 2nd round.As for Karlaftis, that dude just loved to F*CK up Iowa's OL, every single year. He had a sack or forced fumble in 16/26 college games. He may not be an All Pro DE, but I think he winds up having a very solid career
Just different approaches for us. Williams' injury is the only reason he might even be available at 12. He was told it would be a 6-7 month recovery but that he was ahead of schedule. I suspect he and Wilson will both be gone by 12. But if either are available, I would take them. I admit to a (probably) irrational anti-Karlaftis bias.To me, Pierce is at least 1 level, maybe 2, below the top tier receivers (Williams, Wilson, Olave). With his size and athleticism and his QB, I feel Pierce should have been more productive. I see things just getting harder for him. I have not seen enough of Moore to have a strong opinion. I loved Justyn Ross as a freshman but that guy does not exist anymore.
This should be a fun ride. I will be in Vegas for the draft and hopefully will get an invite to the ESPN watch party for Thursday. Kwesi, please don't fuck this up. I have faith he won't.
@"MaroonBells" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
With London I'm seeing the same kind of things I saw with Treadwell. Big, physical, high point jump ball guy who should be good in the red zone, but no separation and no juice.
I think London is better than Treadwell (perhaps I am affected by Treadwell's performance in the NFL) but your point is well taken and I generally agree. The issue, though, is that I do not remember anybody suggesting that Treadwell was anywhere close to the best WR in his draft. ...I like the idea of WR at 12 (or Stingley, but that seems unlikely) but I would not like London there.
London would be a cat through the Samsung pick for me.If you look back at big boards in Feb and Marsh of 2016, Treadwell was generally considered the top WR in that class. He started to fall a bit as we got closer to the draft, but he had a lot of big fans. In fact, we had a several page thread about the receivers in that draft. Nobody wanted to hear that I thought he was the most overrated receiver I watched.
Full disclosure, I thought Doctson would be better than he was. But that whole 1st round receiver class was dogshit. Every receiver taken in the 2nd round ended up much better than every receiver taken in the 1st round.
I'm not going to go so far to suggest they take London, but he isn't Treadwell.All the highlights anyone shows of London are the contested catches/jump-balls. He actually is a really good run after catch player in space. He also gets decent spacing when he isn't running down the field. Anything in or out breaking he gets space to be an easy target. He isn't Mike Evans, which is a common comp. But he is closer to Evans than Treadwell.
@"dadevike" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
B for me, without a doubt. Jameson WIlliams isnt healthy yet and Garrett Wilson/OSU receivers only ran crossing routes and fade routes it seemed. Not saying either wont be good, I could see them taking a little while to get there. Skyy Moore and Alec Pierce are two guys I have liked for quite some time and would be thrilled with them in the 2nd round.As for Karlaftis, that dude just loved to F*CK up Iowa's OL, every single year. He had a sack or forced fumble in 16/26 college games. He may not be an All Pro DE, but I think he winds up having a very solid career
Just different approaches for us. Williams' injury is the only reason he might even be available at 12. He was told it would be a 6-7 month recovery but that he was ahead of schedule. I suspect he and Wilson will both be gone by 12. But if either are available, I would take them. I admit to a (probably) irrational anti-Karlaftis bias.To me, Pierce is at least 1 level, maybe 2, below the top tier receivers (Williams, Wilson, Olave). With his size and athleticism and his QB, I feel Pierce should have been more productive. I see things just getting harder for him. I have not seen enough of Moore to have a strong opinion. I loved Justyn Ross as a freshman but that guy does not exist anymore.
This should be a fun ride. I will be in Vegas for the draft and hopefully will get an invite to the ESPN watch party for Thursday. Kwesi, please don't fuck this up. I have faith he won't.
I get what you're saying but you also have to remember who were playing QB for Alabama (Young with 547 passing attempts this year) and Ohio State (441 attempts). Also, I dont like Ridder (387 attempts). I watched him a handful of games this year and felt he put up stats vs crappy teams and then was awful vs Bama. Pierce may never be a WR1, but I think he could be a very nice WR2 for the Vikes.Skyy Moore's highlights are nasty, check him out on youtube
@"dadevike" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
B for me, without a doubt. Jameson WIlliams isnt healthy yet and Garrett Wilson/OSU receivers only ran crossing routes and fade routes it seemed. Not saying either wont be good, I could see them taking a little while to get there. Skyy Moore and Alec Pierce are two guys I have liked for quite some time and would be thrilled with them in the 2nd round.As for Karlaftis, that dude just loved to F*CK up Iowa's OL, every single year. He had a sack or forced fumble in 16/26 college games. He may not be an All Pro DE, but I think he winds up having a very solid career
Just different approaches for us. Williams' injury is the only reason he might even be available at 12. He was told it would be a 6-7 month recovery but that he was ahead of schedule. I suspect he and Wilson will both be gone by 12. But if either are available, I would take them. I admit to a (probably) irrational anti-Karlaftis bias.To me, Pierce is at least 1 level, maybe 2, below the top tier receivers (Williams, Wilson, Olave). With his size and athleticism and his QB, I feel Pierce should have been more productive. I see things just getting harder for him. I have not seen enough of Moore to have a strong opinion. I loved Justyn Ross as a freshman but that guy does not exist anymore.
This should be a fun ride. I will be in Vegas for the draft and hopefully will get an invite to the ESPN watch party for Thursday. Kwesi, please don't fuck this up. I have faith he won't.
Vegas for the draft sounds like a good time.I will be shocked if Williams goes in the top 12. I'd actually be somewhat surprised if he goes in the 1st round. That speed is real. But ACL late in the year? I could be wrong, but I'd say there's a pretty decent chance he doesn't see the field until mid-year.
Best-case scenario is that he's back in August, which means he's going to miss training camp and probably the preseason, putting him behind. And even then, you have to be careful with his snap count and exposing him to re-injury. And even then you probably can't expect him to be 100% until maybe late in the year. Some team will get a steal if they're patient. What sucks is I can see a playoff team late in the 1st being a team who can afford to be patient.
@"Hawkvike25" said: Skyy Moore's highlights are nasty, check him out on youtubeI know its highlights but dang. I see a lot of Theilen in him. Very interesting. How cool would it be to get Davis or one of the top QBs and then go get a guy who they're calling the best route runner in college with our 2nd pick?
@"MaroonBells" said:@"dadevike" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"minny65" said: There is a lot of depth at WR this draft. I think there are a few really good ones around our pick 46. I would pass at 12 for a WR and maybe do a trade down. I think we are looking at CB and RDE for our new 3-4 where our depth chart has Twyman as our starter with J. Robinson as his backup. The 2 primary ways to acquire difference makers is through the draft and free agency. Trades are too infrequent to count on and even there, the team receiving the player usually has to work out a new contract. Some positions you pretty much need to draft if you want a true stud: QB, WR, LT, Edge, and CB. Acquiring top WR talent in FA (or via trade) is prohibitively expensive. Not so for DLs - other than stud pass rushers and we just signed Z Smith in FA. We have seen how acquiring even a not-top-tier QB can hamstring a franchise.If a true top pass rusher were available at 12, I would not hate that pick. But who are we talking about? There is something about Karlaftis that does not do it for me. It would be almost like drafting Linderbaum there - just meh.
It would not shock me to see 7 or 8 WRs go in the first: Wilson, Olave, London, Williams, Burks, Dotson, Watson, Pickens. We pick at 46. There will be some pretty good WR talent there. But, if you could choose one of the following 2 packages, which would you choose?
A: WR (Wilson/Williams) and DL (Travis Jones/Sam Williams); OR
B: DL (Karlaftis/Wyatt) and WR (Moore/Pierce).I would choose A. Unless Stingley is available at 12 (doubtful), I would go with WR at 12 and probably a CB at 46. Leave Edge for later.
B for me, without a doubt. Jameson WIlliams isnt healthy yet and Garrett Wilson/OSU receivers only ran crossing routes and fade routes it seemed. Not saying either wont be good, I could see them taking a little while to get there. Skyy Moore and Alec Pierce are two guys I have liked for quite some time and would be thrilled with them in the 2nd round.As for Karlaftis, that dude just loved to F*CK up Iowa's OL, every single year. He had a sack or forced fumble in 16/26 college games. He may not be an All Pro DE, but I think he winds up having a very solid career
Just different approaches for us. Williams' injury is the only reason he might even be available at 12. He was told it would be a 6-7 month recovery but that he was ahead of schedule. I suspect he and Wilson will both be gone by 12. But if either are available, I would take them. I admit to a (probably) irrational anti-Karlaftis bias.To me, Pierce is at least 1 level, maybe 2, below the top tier receivers (Williams, Wilson, Olave). With his size and athleticism and his QB, I feel Pierce should have been more productive. I see things just getting harder for him. I have not seen enough of Moore to have a strong opinion. I loved Justyn Ross as a freshman but that guy does not exist anymore.
This should be a fun ride. I will be in Vegas for the draft and hopefully will get an invite to the ESPN watch party for Thursday. Kwesi, please don't fuck this up. I have faith he won't.
Vegas for the draft sounds like a good time.I will be shocked if Williams goes in the top 12. I'd actually be somewhat surprised if he goes in the 1st round. That speed is real. But ACL late in the year? I could be wrong, but I'd say there's a pretty decent chance he doesn't see the field until mid-year.
Best-case scenario is that he's back in August, which means he's going to miss training camp and probably the preseason, putting him behind. And even then, you have to be careful with his snap count and exposing him to re-injury. And even then you probably can't expect him to be 100% until maybe late in the year. Some team will get a steal if they're patient. What sucks is I can see a playoff team late in the 1st being a team who can afford to be patient.
I think there is no chance Williams falls out of the first and a decent chance (40%?) he goes before 12. The patient teams are those who are guaranteed a playoff spot and those who are guaranteed to not make the playoffs. But he will absolutely be recovered from his knee injury in time to play a lot of games this season.I don't see the Vikings as a serious SB threat this year (hope I'm wrong) so why not take the best receiver even if he will only be at full strength for the last 4 to 6 games. Hopefully AT stays relatively healthy and we won't need to push Williams this season. But I love the idea of Williams (or Wilson) paired with Jefferson going forward.
@"Geoff Nichols" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"Hawkvike25" said:@"dadevike" said:@"MaroonBells" said:@"supafreak84" said:@"dadevike" said: I think it would be hard to pass on Stingley (assuming he's healthy). But we are all counting on the re-appearance of 2019 Stingley. If Stingley and Wilson are both there at 12 the only way I consider trading out of that spot is if the compensation includes a first this year and a first next year. Otherwise, I am taking one of those two. And I am leaning towards Wilson.Garrett Wilson and Jefferson on the outside with Thielen in the slot and Irv Smith (if he stays healthy) working the seam would be awfully scary for opposing defenses.
Prior to his injury I had Jameson Williams as my top guy and was looking at him as a really good pick for us. It's too bad he hurt his knee. And for the record I still think Treylon Burks is a stud despite the 4.55/40
Hunter and Z off the edge with a shut down corner to pair with P2 and Dantzler would be awfully scary for opposing offenses.But if we do go WR in the 1st (doubtful), my guy is Chris Olave. I might take Williams in the 2nd, but I doubt he plays much in 22.
I had Wilson and Williams (pre-injury) as the top 2 WRs in either order. I expect Williams to be ready to go by the start of the season and to be close to 100% before the end of the season.I will take the Wilson, Jefferson, Thielen, ISJ, Dalvin Cook offense with a decent to good O line. Talk about running it back; we're running it all the way back to 1998 with Moss, Carter, Reed, Glover, and Robert Smith.
Assuming Wilson is gone by 12, I would strongly consider Williams - assuming we get the go-ahead from the medical review.
Agree on Burks. I like him better than London (what am I missing with London?). Watson is also intriguing but he's the next level down because of the competition he faced. Would he have been as effective in the SEC? That's not rhetorical.
A lot of us on this board don't like London and it's mainly because he cant create separation very well. He's a damn good college receiver, but too many times have we seen really good college receivers not make it at the next level because they cannot separate. Honestly, I dont think I would take him in the first round
With London I'm seeing the same kind of things I saw with Treadwell. Big, physical, high point jump ball guy who should be good in the red zone, but no separation and no juice.
I think London is better than Treadwell (perhaps I am affected by Treadwell's performance in the NFL) but your point is well taken and I generally agree. The issue, though, is that I do not remember anybody suggesting that Treadwell was anywhere close to the best WR in his draft. ...I like the idea of WR at 12 (or Stingley, but that seems unlikely) but I would not like London there.
London would be a cat through the Samsung pick for me.If you look back at big boards in Feb and Marsh of 2016, Treadwell was generally considered the top WR in that class. He started to fall a bit as we got closer to the draft, but he had a lot of big fans. In fact, we had a several page thread about the receivers in that draft. Nobody wanted to hear that I thought he was the most overrated receiver I watched.
Full disclosure, I thought Doctson would be better than he was. But that whole 1st round receiver class was dogshit. Every receiver taken in the 2nd round ended up much better than every receiver taken in the 1st round.
I'm not going to go so far to suggest they take London, but he isn't Treadwell.All the highlights anyone shows of London are the contested catches/jump-balls. He actually is a really good run after catch player in space. He also gets decent spacing when he isn't running down the field. Anything in or out breaking he gets space to be an easy target. He isn't Mike Evans, which is a common comp. But he is closer to Evans than Treadwell.
C'mon, so nobody remembers the elite receiver that was Laquon Treadwell? LOL. Man, there were raves. Here's a few reminders...Ole Miss wide receiver Laquon Treadwell will be one of the first players selected in the 2016 NFL draft....he shows a lot of the qualities that could lead teams to believe that he could be worthy of a top 5 pick....A terror after the catch, incredibly elusive and tough to bring down in the open field, fights hard for every yard (used heavily on screens)....Smooth and fluid athlete, minimal stiffness in his routes or in the air (um...what??) Grade: A. He’s the next Dez Bryant....The 2016 draft class does not appear to filled with as many instant-impact receivers as recent years, but the best of the bunch is Ole Miss' Laquon Treadwell....Mississippi wide receiver Laquon Treadwell was one of the most dominant receivers in the nation this past season...he should remain as the top wide receiver prospect available in the 2016 NFL Draft.
I'm sure London will be better than Treadwell. That's a damn low mark. I'm just saying that when I put him on, I saw the exact same thing I saw when I put on Treadwell. No separation. No juice or athleticism. About him, I'll say the same thing I said about Treadwell. His ceiling is possession.
And now that I think about it, how many of these oversized receivers are successful in the NFL? The best receivers right now--Adams, JJ, Diggs, Kupp, Chase, Lamb, Hill--are all of average size. 6-0, 6-1, 190, 200. What's more, there's been a lot of big guy busts who come to mind: Mike Williams, Arcega-Whiteside, N'Keal Harry, Kevin White...unless of course they run 4.3 forties (Megatron, DK). No, I don't touch the guy.
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