So...Stingley

If healthy, I think he's 1B corner in this draft (Sauce 1A). Would be happy with him

If Stingley is there and Sauce is gone, assuming he checks out physically, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on Stingley.

Stingley has the makings of a shutdown corner. Draft him and start him. 

@"dadevike" said: If Stingley is there and Sauce is gone, assuming he checks out physically, I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on Stingley.

Absolutely agree. McDuffie concerns me a bit in that he's 5'10" with shorter arms. It seems like his upside ceiling is Desmond Trufant, who was another Washington product. I think at #12 there will be better players on the board. It's why I say if Sauce and Stingley are gone, I'm totally good going in a different direction whether that's Jordan Davis or one of the WR's. Despite the amount of really good edge players I think we've addressed that with Hunter, Smith, and the young prospects we have behind them already on the roster. There's some depth at corner so that position could be addressed in the second and third rounds. 

Honestly, I'm hoping we fill CB via free agency. P2 @ $5-6 million plus incentives and a probably modest contract for Sullivan. Then go into the draft looking solely at BPA.

My question is, take his freshman year away, is this guy even worth talking about? Lisfranc injury has kept him from doing anything postseason. That's a bit concerning. What exactly has he done the last two years?

Nothing. 

On the plus side, if you get the player from freshman year, you get a generational guy at #12.

You're a first time GM, do you swing for the fences? If Hunter is ok, if Zardarius is ok, and you add 2019 Stingley, you're looking at a top 10 D on paper. 

Choose between:

A) Davis and a 2nd round CB
B) Stingley and a 2nd DL

I'm taking A all day regardless of Stingley's health.  It's shutting down the run, forcing the pass, and getting after the quarterback that's the key to the game.

Davis playing LDE/NT (rotating) could be a monster, having Smith and Hunter behind him is down right scary.  You will get more out of that 2nd round CB with that added presence and pressure versus Stingley with Armon Watts at LDE (no disrespect to Armon, he's good player).  

The Bengals had a good enough defense to make and almost win the Super Bowl with their set of CBs.  It's about pressure and run stuffing.  

Go get the best DL at 12, draft CB in the 2nd and/or 3rd

Read multiple draft projection and each one said Stingley comes with risks. 10 games last two seasons. Looked better in 2020 then 2021. Boom or Bust. 

@"Skodin" said: Choose between:

A) Davis and a 2nd round CB
B) Stingley and a 2nd DL

I'm taking A all day regardless of Stingley's health.  It's shutting down the run, forcing the pass, and getting after the quarterback that's the key to the game.

Davis playing LDE/NT (rotating) could be a monster, having Smith and Hunter behind him is down right scary.  You will get more out of that 2nd round CB with that added presence and pressure versus Stingley with Armon Watts at LDE (no disrespect to Armon, he's good player).  

The Bengals had a good enough defense to make and almost win the Super Bowl with their set of CBs.  It's about pressure and run stuffing.  

Go get the best DL at 12, draft CB in the 2nd and/or 3rd

I'm likely a broken record when it comes to trading back, but if your top corners and Jordan Davis are gone by 12, trade back and pick up a day 2 pick this year. Then go best defensive player available with your first round pick, probably do it again with your second rounder and if you pick up another second with the trade back then go WR/OL.

Yeah, as long as he's healthy I'm taking Stingley all day every day.

Stingley's stock is directly tied to his medicals, I have no idea what teams think about him yet when it comes to that. But I will die on the hill that his 2019 tape is the best I've seen from a CB since Jalen Ramsey at FSU, he's that talented. The tape in 2020/21 was not nearly as good but people make it out to be worse than it really was. A few thoughts I have. 

1. Schematically they changes the LSU defense in 2020 and Stingley's role was altered a bit. It took him off the line a bit more and really didn't play into his length and size advantages. 

2. People harp on his ability to defend in-breaking routes. He is very capable of it when he's fully engaged, the effort level is a question mark worth exploring more 

3. He falls into the prospect trap of, is the player ascending? To be blunt, nobody was going to back up his 2019 tape. It was just that good. So of course the reaction is to assume he's fallen off. Well if healthy his fallen off is still a #1 NFL CB in my opinion. 

All comes down to risk vs. reward. I'd much rather burn out with Stingley than McDuffie purely on the fact that if its a hit I have a corner with prototypical size who can shadow anyone in the NFL. Once again with health I think Stingley's downside is still a good CB2 while McDuffie is a slot guy at his floor. 

Based on the risk/reward I would still consider one of the high-end pass rushers over Stingley, but that is about it. 

@"Skodin" said: Choose between:

A) Davis and a 2nd round CB
B) Stingley and a 2nd DL

I'm taking A all day regardless of Stingley's health.  It's shutting down the run, forcing the pass, and getting after the quarterback that's the key to the game.

Davis playing LDE/NT (rotating) could be a monster, having Smith and Hunter behind him is down right scary.  You will get more out of that 2nd round CB with that added presence and pressure versus Stingley with Armon Watts at LDE (no disrespect to Armon, he's good player).  

The Bengals had a good enough defense to make and almost win the Super Bowl with their set of CBs.  It's about pressure and run stuffing.  

Go get the best DL at 12, draft CB in the 2nd and/or 3rd

If Davis had shown more as a pass rusher at Georgia I would feel better about taking him. Not saying that he cannot do it, just we have not seen it. I won't be upset if we take Davis over Stingley - we don't know as much as those making that call - but I would lean towards taking Stingley over Davis. 

@"JustinTime18™" said: Honestly, I'm hoping we fill CB via free agency. P2 @ $5-6 million plus incentives and a probably modest contract for Sullivan. Then go into the draft looking solely at BPA.

My question is, take his freshman year away, is this guy even worth talking about? Lisfranc injury has kept him from doing anything postseason. That's a bit concerning. What exactly has he done the last two years?

Nothing. 

On the plus side, if you get the player from freshman year, you get a generational guy at #12.

You're a first time GM, do you swing for the fences? If Hunter is ok, if Zardarius is ok, and you add 2019 Stingley, you're looking at a top 10 D on paper. 

I think even if Peterson, Dantzler and Sullivan are your starting three, this pick still has to be a corner. Peterson will be 32 this summer. And while he played about like we hoped/expected, there's not a lot left. 

Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

@"Skodin" said:

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

Preaaaaach....although I would be big mad if they traded down with Sauce still there at 12. I do like the idea of trading down if 3/4 are still there at 12 (Elam/Booth/McDuffie/Stingley). I echo the fact that this class seems to be deep at positions we need most so we need to hit big time on the first two rounds and then hopefully get a quality guy in the 3rd.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

Preaaaaach....although I would be big mad if they traded down with Sauce still there at 12. I do like the idea of trading down if 3/4 are still there at 12 (Elam/Booth/McDuffie/Stingley). I echo the fact that this class seems to be deep at positions we need most so we need to hit big time on the first two rounds and then hopefully get a quality guy in the 3rd.

I'd be willing to bet our new front office is cautious in their first draft.  I bet we don't move either way on our first pick. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

Preaaaaach....although I would be big mad if they traded down with Sauce still there at 12. I do like the idea of trading down if 3/4 are still there at 12 (Elam/Booth/McDuffie/Stingley). I echo the fact that this class seems to be deep at positions we need most so we need to hit big time on the first two rounds and then hopefully get a quality guy in the 3rd.

I'd be willing to bet our new front office is cautious in their first draft.  I bet we don't move either way on our first pick. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"Skodin" said:

@"rf54" said: Davis is a combine stud, but it doesn't really show up on the tape.

Cornerback is far and away the biggest need on this team and they should be able to get a stud CB in the first.

Yes I want Sauce but i'm pretty sure he is gone bu 10.  Stingley is very interesting and it shoiuld be noted the Vikings probably know more about him than other teams because Daronte Jones was his DC at LSU last 2 years.

Mcduffie is a very quality pick but if my draft crushes are Booth and Elam.  

Dream draft would be trade back a few picks and get one of the picks I listed and get an extra pick or two.  Maybe use the extra picks to jump back into the late first to grab another D player.

You might get your dream draft IF there is a run on OT (3) as well as a QB and WR are drafted in the top 11 picks.  That would realistically leave Stingley, Johnson II, and Davis at 12.  Baltimore looks like drafting DL so move from 12 to 14, grab an additional 3rd and give up a later round pick.   

One of those 3 would be there at 14, which means you can move down again (3-4) spots and have a shot at Elam, Booth, McDuffie or Stingley.  I would love to see us get some additional picks IF Sauce, Hamilton, or one of the premier edge players falls.  There is a lot of defensive talent in this draft, 6 picks in the first 4 rounds could do a lot for the future of this roster.  

CB, DT, LB, S, CB, WR could be a nice haul from the first 140 picks.

Preaaaaach....although I would be big mad if they traded down with Sauce still there at 12. I do like the idea of trading down if 3/4 are still there at 12 (Elam/Booth/McDuffie/Stingley). I echo the fact that this class seems to be deep at positions we need most so we need to hit big time on the first two rounds and then hopefully get a quality guy in the 3rd.

I'd be willing to bet our new front office is cautious in their first draft.  I bet we don't move either way on our first pick. 

I don't know about that. There is no precedence on how Kwesi is going to value his picks, the valuation of the picks, etc.

Historically he has been the 49ers and Browns organizations. Cleveland has typically stayed put in the 1st but moved all over the place in rounds 2+. 49ers act pretty similarly outside of last year. 

From Florida's Pro Day today;

"Meanwhile, 28 teams had reps at the Florida pro day where rising CB Kaiir Elam, who ran under 4.4 seconds at the combine, added to his resume with a 37.5-inch vertical and a short shuttle time of 4.21 seconds."

I've said it before, but if I can't get Stingley or Sauce at #12...I'm taking another premium player at a different position and going to look at CB later on. Elam is part of that late first to second round mix that I like at the cornerback position. No need to hit the panic button and take McDuffie at that point just because we need a corner.