Was Mike Zimmer a giant clown?

@"Still Hurtn" said: Zim was old old school. I had a former NFL player tell me Zim was an A hole.  IMO Zim wanted to be the Alpha. This caused guys to lose heart, passion and swagger. Zim throwing away offensive coordinators and kickers was a glimpse of a bigger problem. 

He's a rich clown that is for dang sure.

I ain't putting it all on Zimmer.  That is the narrative of the lazy thinkers.

The truth is that the PLAYERS are responsible for the horrible record and the schemes and coaching did not stop them from making the playoffs.

They did.

Now you see Cousins saying something about getting back to it and Thielen running his mouf saying something similar.

All they do is talk.

The players got the coach and GM fired because they stink.

If you cannot make the expanded playoffs then you don't need to open your mouf at all.

Just freaking do it.

But I guess it was Zimmer who fumbled vs the Bengals in overtime, missed the field goal vs the Cardinals, who could only muster 7 points vs the Browns when the defense held them to 14, etc.

I put the majority of the blame on the high paid overrated players.

Giant clown no, more like a miniature dinosaur…  ;) B)  

@"MarkSP18" said: The players got the coach and GM fired because they stink. 

I keep thinking back to last year’s preseason. The Vikings looked TERRIBLE in every game and there were red flags everywhere and yet many on this board said it doesn’t matter, it’s only preseason, etc. That was clearly wishful thinking. I know KOC is a first time coach and there will be growing pains, but I hope we look much sharper in the preseason this year (like we did in Zim’s earlier years before he lost the team).

Call it just a hunch; KOC year 1 calling plays might look and feel a bit different than Kubiak jr. 

Yes. Next question.

@"pattersaur" said:

@"MarkSP18" said: The players got the coach and GM fired because they stink. 

Not sure whether I agree or disagree but this made me laugh, so thank you. I will say I’m surprised that the “new direction” of the new front office is basically the same direction as the old FO. And that’s the reason I started this thread. Was Zim bad? Seems like yeah. Is the roster bad? We’ll find out soon. 

I keep thinking back to last year’s preseason. The Vikings looked TERRIBLE in every game and there were red flags everywhere and yet many on this board said it doesn’t matter, it’s only preseason, etc. That was clearly wishful thinking. I know KOC is a first time coach and there will be growing pains, but I hope we look much sharper in the preseason this year (like we did in Zim’s earlier years before he lost the team).

@"pattersaur" said: In your opinion was Zim a terrible head coach?

So far, it’s looking like the roster will be pretty familiar next season. If that’s the case then the only real big change is with the coaching. So, do you believe that Zim was so bad that he was holding this roster back? I honestly don’t know but that seems to be what the Wilfs believe and what they’re selling to the fanbase.

For the sake of the team and this fan’s sanity, I hope they are right and KOC can elevate this squad in ways Zim could not. But there was a time (8 months ago?) where most of the fanbase supported Zimmer. I’m just not sure I buy that he was the sole problem and now that he’s been eradicated everything will be daisies.

@"Mike Olson" said: Yes. Next question.

I hear he's keeping an eye out for his next job.

What's with the past tense?

You could take the exact same roster, replace the coach, and win three more games. To me, Zimmer's value as a defensive guru outweighed his game-day weaknesses. Until it didn't. 

@"MaroonBells" said: You could take the exact same roster, replace the coach, and win three more games. To me, Zimmer's value as a defensive guru outweighed his game-day weaknesses. Until it didn't. 

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: You could take the exact same roster, replace the coach, and win three more games. To me, Zimmer's value as a defensive guru outweighed his game-day weaknesses. Until it didn't. 

So far that looks to be what we are doing so we will certainly see.  I really do hope your right and I am wrong because I see us actually falling back from last year so far.  We are another year older and have all new coaches/schemes to learn.  

@"minny65" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: You could take the exact same roster, replace the coach, and win three more games. To me, Zimmer's value as a defensive guru outweighed his game-day weaknesses. Until it didn't. 

So far that looks to be what we are doing so we will certainly see.  I really do hope your right and I am wrong because I see us actually falling back from last year so far.  We are another year older and have all new coaches/schemes to learn.  

If it wasn’t for Zimmer, our favorite team would have been in the playoffs last year. One easy glaring example is sitting Dantzler and starting the worst corner on the team. Zimmer always played favorites and it cost the team a lot of games over the years. He's wasted some good competitive rosters. So far he’d wasted Dantzler, and past guys like Anthony Harris for his favorite dumb dumb I wildly hit my own guys Sendajo (who took Rhodes out for most of a season in his prime) on and on. He gave the defense the entire offense game plan before practices. Who’s getting better doing that? How about his last two minutes soft zone play calls?  From a football standpoint, the guy sucked. 
As a coach and in some ways a person, the guy is straight up a piece of shit. He went against trainers advice and pushed older players to injury. Even when specifically told by the Docs if he didn’t stop the guys would almost surely get injured, he still did it. Who does that? Screwing with kickers, coaches (hell we had a well respected one quit on him), the GM, and god knows who else. There’s a long line of coaches who bailed after a single year under him. 
For me personally though, he showed the type of man he was when he left. He took zero responsibility for anything. It was all due to the GM, the players, injuries (that the dumbass helped cause), the QB (most laughable)….anyone but the one guy in control. That told me exactly the kind of man he was. I see why no one would hire him as a HC. The guy wasn’t suited for it mentally or emotionally. Good riddance.

@"jargomcfargo" said: It wasn't all coaching and Zimmer wasn't a bad coach. He had his shortcomings and the Wilf's think they can upgrade. I hope they are right. If riding the Cousins train for another year or two turns out no better than the last couple years, the blame will land squarely on the Wilf's themselves for making poor decisions.

He is not a good head coach. And it isn’t even close. He is terrible because he cannot relate to other people. And different parts he is worse than others to varying degrees.

The first red flag was Norv Turner. That SHOUKD have been en eye opener. But we all wanted to believe that he was the stoic, hard nosed, In the mold of Bud Grant, coach that we needed. We thought he knew the direction he wanted to go and good for him.

Then there was the kickers. My god the lickers. The way he treated them. And it just kept getting worse. In the media he would sometimes say the right things but man…. 

Diggs. I said it when he started acting strange that he was not happy with the direction of the offense and that was directly related to Zimmer. Most people thought it was a problem with cousins. And that may be partly true. But we know that Zimmer was having nothing to do with Cousins and we also know that Zimmer wanted the offense run a certain way. No wonder why Diggs was so cryptic in his actions back then. Zimmer was still beloved to the fan base and the coaching world at large. Not a good idea to blast a coach in the media and still want to have a career.

The “miracle” game was the last straw for me. Despite the awesome fairy tale ending of that game, the second half of the game showed me that the Saints had his defense figured out. He could do nothing to stop it, and only a lucky miss by a defender got us to the NFCCG. The next week the eagles showed us everything they had learned watching us play the Saints. 

That continued on and off for years. He rarely was able to make in game adjustments from then on out. Even when his defense was struggling mightily he would never adjust. Not on defense, not on offense. That is the epitome of poor head coaching. If the head coach consistently cannot put his team in position to succeed or even compete….He has failed at his job.

Fir me I honestly believe his biggest problem was ego. Having watched him on the field up close or close-ish. I can honestly say I thought the guy had a piss poor attitude. Maybe I am wrong but that’s the impression that I got from him.

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: It wasn't all coaching and Zimmer wasn't a bad coach. He had his shortcomings and the Wilf's think they can upgrade. I hope they are right. If riding the Cousins train for another year or two turns out no better than the last couple years, the blame will land squarely on the Wilf's themselves for making poor decisions.

Other than Tom Moore and a few others to a smaller degree I am probably one of the only ones here to see him up close with the team. Both at training camp and at on the road games. For me, and people likely remember my incessant calling out of Zimmer, the wheels started coming off years ago. 

He is not a good head coach. And it isn’t even close. He is terrible because he cannot relate to other people. And different parts he is worse than others to varying degrees.

The first red flag was Norv Turner. That SHOUKD have been en eye opener. But we all wanted to believe that he was the stoic, hard nosed, In the mold of Bud Grant, coach that we needed. We thought he knew the direction he wanted to go and good for him.

Then there was the kickers. My god the lickers. The way he treated them. And it just kept getting worse. In the media he would sometimes say the right things but man…. 

Diggs. I said it when he started acting strange that he was not happy with the direction of the offense and that was directly related to Zimmer. Most people thought it was a problem with cousins. And that may be partly true. But we know that Zimmer was having nothing to do with Cousins and we also know that Zimmer wanted the offense run a certain way. No wonder why Diggs was so cryptic in his actions back then. Zimmer was still beloved to the fan base and the coaching world at large. Not a good idea to blast a coach in the media and still want to have a career.

The “miracle” game was the last straw for me. Despite the awesome fairy tale ending of that game, the second half of the game showed me that the Saints had his defense figured out. He could do nothing to stop it, and only a lucky miss by a defender got us to the NFCCG. The next week the eagles showed us everything they had learned watching us play the Saints. 

That continued on and off for years. He rarely was able to make in game adjustments from then on out. Even when his defense was struggling mightily he would never adjust. Not on defense, not on offense. That is the epitome of poor head coaching. If the head coach consistently cannot put his team in position to succeed or even compete….He has failed at his job.

Fir me I honestly believe his biggest problem was ego. Having watched him on the field up close or close-ish. I can honestly say I thought the guy had a piss poor attitude. Maybe I am wrong but that’s the impression that I got from him.

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: It wasn't all coaching and Zimmer wasn't a bad coach. He had his shortcomings and the Wilf's think they can upgrade. I hope they are right. If riding the Cousins train for another year or two turns out no better than the last couple years, the blame will land squarely on the Wilf's themselves for making poor decisions.

Other than Tom Moore and a few others to a smaller degree I am probably one of the only ones here to see him up close with the team. Both at training camp and at on the road games. For me, and people likely remember my incessant calling out of Zimmer, the wheels started coming off years ago. 

He is not a good head coach. And it isn’t even close. He is terrible because he cannot relate to other people. And different parts he is worse than others to varying degrees.

The first red flag was Norv Turner. That SHOUKD have been en eye opener. But we all wanted to believe that he was the stoic, hard nosed, In the mold of Bud Grant, coach that we needed. We thought he knew the direction he wanted to go and good for him.

Then there was the kickers. My god the lickers. The way he treated them. And it just kept getting worse. In the media he would sometimes say the right things but man…. 

Diggs. I said it when he started acting strange that he was not happy with the direction of the offense and that was directly related to Zimmer. Most people thought it was a problem with cousins. And that may be partly true. But we know that Zimmer was having nothing to do with Cousins and we also know that Zimmer wanted the offense run a certain way. No wonder why Diggs was so cryptic in his actions back then. Zimmer was still beloved to the fan base and the coaching world at large. Not a good idea to blast a coach in the media and still want to have a career.

The “miracle” game was the last straw for me. Despite the awesome fairy tale ending of that game, the second half of the game showed me that the Saints had his defense figured out. He could do nothing to stop it, and only a lucky miss by a defender got us to the NFCCG. The next week the eagles showed us everything they had learned watching us play the Saints. 

That continued on and off for years. He rarely was able to make in game adjustments from then on out. Even when his defense was struggling mightily he would never adjust. Not on defense, not on offense. That is the epitome of poor head coaching. If the head coach consistently cannot put his team in position to succeed or even compete….He has failed at his job.

Fir me I honestly believe his biggest problem was ego. Having watched him on the field up close or close-ish. I can honestly say I thought the guy had a piss poor attitude. Maybe I am wrong but that’s the impression that I got from him.

I appreciate your insight. And to be clear, I wanted him gone before the Wilf's gave him the extension, three years ago or so. No he wasn't a good head coach. He was a defensive coordinator who made a name for himself because he had Dion Sanders and others. Players make coaches more than coaches make players.
There was a reason he couldn't get a head coaching job, but Spielman hired him anyway.
When I say he wasn't a bad coach, I meant as a defensive coordinator. But he didn't elevate the Bengals to a contending team none the less.
Despite that, I still feel there were issues with the roster that contributed to the Vikings morass. How can you justify Breeland as a starter, along with a decade of inept players on the offensive line? Elfline, Dozier, even Bradbury for that matter. Those are on Spielman.
So I have agreed with you all along that Zimmer needed replaced. And I'm grateful to hear my speculation confirmed by your actual experience. 

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said:

@"Mike Olson" said:

@"jargomcfargo" said: It wasn't all coaching and Zimmer wasn't a bad coach. He had his shortcomings and the Wilf's think they can upgrade. I hope they are right. If riding the Cousins train for another year or two turns out no better than the last couple years, the blame will land squarely on the Wilf's themselves for making poor decisions.

Other than Tom Moore and a few others to a smaller degree I am probably one of the only ones here to see him up close with the team. Both at training camp and at on the road games. For me, and people likely remember my incessant calling out of Zimmer, the wheels started coming off years ago. 

He is not a good head coach. And it isn’t even close. He is terrible because he cannot relate to other people. And different parts he is worse than others to varying degrees.

The first red flag was Norv Turner. That SHOUKD have been en eye opener. But we all wanted to believe that he was the stoic, hard nosed, In the mold of Bud Grant, coach that we needed. We thought he knew the direction he wanted to go and good for him.

Then there was the kickers. My god the lickers. The way he treated them. And it just kept getting worse. In the media he would sometimes say the right things but man…. 

Diggs. I said it when he started acting strange that he was not happy with the direction of the offense and that was directly related to Zimmer. Most people thought it was a problem with cousins. And that may be partly true. But we know that Zimmer was having nothing to do with Cousins and we also know that Zimmer wanted the offense run a certain way. No wonder why Diggs was so cryptic in his actions back then. Zimmer was still beloved to the fan base and the coaching world at large. Not a good idea to blast a coach in the media and still want to have a career.

The “miracle” game was the last straw for me. Despite the awesome fairy tale ending of that game, the second half of the game showed me that the Saints had his defense figured out. He could do nothing to stop it, and only a lucky miss by a defender got us to the NFCCG. The next week the eagles showed us everything they had learned watching us play the Saints. 

That continued on and off for years. He rarely was able to make in game adjustments from then on out. Even when his defense was struggling mightily he would never adjust. Not on defense, not on offense. That is the epitome of poor head coaching. If the head coach consistently cannot put his team in position to succeed or even compete….He has failed at his job.

Fir me I honestly believe his biggest problem was ego. Having watched him on the field up close or close-ish. I can honestly say I thought the guy had a piss poor attitude. Maybe I am wrong but that’s the impression that I got from him.

I appreciate your insight. And to be clear, I wanted him gone before the Wilf's gave him the extension, three years ago or so. No he wasn't a good head coach. He was a defensive coordinator who made a name for himself because he had Dion Sanders and others. Players make coaches more than coaches make players.
There was a reason he couldn't get a head coaching job, but Spielman hired him anyway.
When I say he wasn't a bad coach, I meant as a defensive coordinator. But he didn't elevate the Bengals to a contending team none the less.
Despite that, I still feel there were issues with the roster that contributed to the Vikings morass. How can you justify Breeland as a starter, along with a decade of inept players on the offensive line? Elfline, Dozier, even Bradbury for that matter. Those are on Spielman.
So I have agreed with you all along that Zimmer needed replaced. And I'm grateful to hear my speculation confirmed by your actual experience. 

Oh I figured that’s what you meant. And to that end he wasn’t a bad coach. I wanted to be wrong about him for a long time. I wanted him to prove that his way was the right way. But with guys like that it rarely is. Especially in this day and age. 

Oh well we are off to a new era and I don’t think any of us know what will unfold with this new regime.

I just hope for those old fans like PurpleFaithful it clicks soon for them….

Just kidding PF! I threw that in there to see how closely you are reading the forums! =P