68% completion, 31 TDs and 9 INTs average per year

@"StickyBun" said: Hey, but we all agree this guy sucks, right?

Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  And unless I am missing something,  the pats and Brady didn't win any superbowls while they were paying the goat "market price."

After an MVP season in 2010, a Super Bowl trip in 2011 and a trip to the AFC Championship in 2012, Brady reworked and extended his deal just before the 2013 league year began. He gave the Patriots a huge financial break in agreeing to the three-year, $27M extension. The agreement saved the Patriots $8M in cap room in 2013 and $7M in cap room in 2014. Brady’s hope at the time was the team would re-sign Wes Welker, who was on the verge of free agency. Instead, Welker wanted to test the market and the Patriots signed Danny Amendola. Still, Brady’s deal gave the Patriots huge cap flexibility. His salaries from 2015 through 2017 were $13M, $14M and $15M. Including 2013 and 2014 — which he was already under agreement for — the deal’s maximum value was $57M over five years with $33M guaranteed.
“I was just trying to stay ahead of the curve," said Robert Kraft at the time. "If we were going to have to pay him elite-quarterback money and have elite-quarterback cap numbers, I just didn't think we would be able to build a team. We don't want to have a team where we're paying 18 to 20 percent to a player on the cap. I wanted to do something elegant that would work for everybody. I had been talking to him off and on for maybe 18 months, about how I wanted him to finish his career here, and about how we both have to be smart about it. I just really want him to end his career a Patriot.” 

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

OK, Brady was 36, not 37. But go ahead keep expecting a 33 year old QB in his prime, coming off 4200, 33 and 7 to take a team-friendly deal. Who knows? Maybe he will. 

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

@"Still Hurtn" said: If they play works as designed Kirks your guy. If the play breaks down and you need ad lib, heroics, buying that extra 1-2 seconds Kirk falls short. So do we want a competitive team that that is solid but gets eliminated from the playoffs each year? Or roll the dice hoping for magic? After 50 years I've had enough competitive. 

There's a school of thought in the NFL that says teams who win a Super Bowl are no longer the dynasties of the 70s and 80s. Too much parity. They're more often teams who get hot and healthy late in the year. Luck and timing play a big part, as we all know. And so the more competitive rosters you build, the more likely you are to be one of those teams. 

So you can't say "do we want a competitive team that is solid but gets eliminated each year" because you don't know that. It's more a "team with a chance every year" vs. "rolling the dice hoping for magic." 

Considering the odds of hitting on a "magic" QB in the first round are roughly 12%, I'll take option 1 every time. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

OK, Brady was 36, not 37. But go ahead keep expecting a 33 year old QB in his prime, coming off 4200, 33 and 7 to take a team-friendly deal. Who knows? Maybe he will. 

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

Quick question,  would you rather have KC at 33 ( going to be 34 when the season starts)  or TB at 36 which was his age iirc when he redid his deal with the Pats and went on to win 3 more lombardis with them?  Do you think they are on the same career paths where the age they do things is really relevant considering tom played 9 more seasons after that,  does anybody really see Cousins playing in his 40s?

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

OK, Brady was 36, not 37. But go ahead keep expecting a 33 year old QB in his prime, coming off 4200, 33 and 7 to take a team-friendly deal. Who knows? Maybe he will. 

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

Quick question,  would you rather have KC at 33 ( going to be 34 when the season starts)  or TB at 36 which was his age iirc when he redid his deal with the Pats and went on to win 3 more lombardis with them?  Do you think they are on the same career paths where the age they do things is really relevant considering tom played 9 more seasons after that,  does anybody really see Cousins playing in his 40s?

No, of course. Tom Brady is the GOAT. And an outlier. I do, however, think Cousins will play longer than most. Like I've said before, those who play into their 40s tend to be those who avoid injury. Favre, Brees, Brady, etc. I also think that in two years, $40M per will be considered peanuts.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

OK, Brady was 36, not 37. But go ahead keep expecting a 33 year old QB in his prime, coming off 4200, 33 and 7 to take a team-friendly deal. Who knows? Maybe he will. 

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

Quick question,  would you rather have KC at 33 ( going to be 34 when the season starts)  or TB at 36 which was his age iirc when he redid his deal with the Pats and went on to win 3 more lombardis with them?  Do you think they are on the same career paths where the age they do things is really relevant considering tom played 9 more seasons after that,  does anybody really see Cousins playing in his 40s?

No, of course. Tom Brady is the GOAT. And an outlier. I do, however, think Cousins will play longer than most. Like I've said before, those who play into their 40s tend to be those who avoid injury. Favre, Brees, Brady, etc. I also think that in two years, $40M per will be considered peanuts.

I see Kirk as the other way,  I dont think he relishes  the accolades that come from being an NFL QB like the others that play on and on.   He doest strike me as the record chaser,  or as a guy that needs football to feel good about himself.  Imo he is a guy that will likely look at his long relatively injury free career as a gift from God and choose to walk away before pushing his luck.  I think those other guys didn't have enough away from football to fill their needs for the spotlight,  Kirk has never seemed to be that guy.

Some see this as a lack of fire,  I dont,  Kirk has fire,  just not the outward kind,  I see Kirk like the proverbial duck on a pond,  calm on the surface but underneath hes going 100 may.  Ha also seems like he wants to be a people pleaser which with the way things went with Zimmer and covid for him... that had to be a real stomach twister.    Especially with Zimmer and whats emerged about their relationship.

I agree the cap will keep going up,  but so will all other positional contract demands.  The Vikings really need to focus on percentages and keep their contracts in those ranges in order to sustain any type of solid roster.  There will always be bust contracts like Hunter and Pierce,  thats part of the game,  but with KC we know what we should expect and I think he falls into that type of money that TB played for in order to build around him.  Honestly paying Kirk like that is a boost for KC since TB was a significantly better QB in most peoples estimation. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said: Brady was about the same age as Cousins is now when he made his first major contract  concession so the pats could build a better team around him.  

OK, Brady was 36, not 37. But go ahead keep expecting a 33 year old QB in his prime, coming off 4200, 33 and 7 to take a team-friendly deal. Who knows? Maybe he will. 

Still, the difference between 33 and 36 may not sound like much if you're talking about the IQ of your girlfriend, but in QBs it's huge. Russell Wilson is 33. Joe Flacco is 36. 

Quick question,  would you rather have KC at 33 ( going to be 34 when the season starts)  or TB at 36 which was his age iirc when he redid his deal with the Pats and went on to win 3 more lombardis with them?  Do you think they are on the same career paths where the age they do things is really relevant considering tom played 9 more seasons after that,  does anybody really see Cousins playing in his 40s?

No, of course. Tom Brady is the GOAT. And an outlier. I do, however, think Cousins will play longer than most. Like I've said before, those who play into their 40s tend to be those who avoid injury. Favre, Brees, Brady, etc. I also think that in two years, $40M per will be considered peanuts.

I see Kirk as the other way,  I dont think he relishes  the accolades that come from being an NFL QB like the others that play on and on.   He doest strike me as the record chaser,  or as a guy that needs football to feel good about himself.  Imo he is a guy that will likely look at his long relatively injury free career as a gift from God and choose to walk away before pushing his luck.  I think those other guys didn't have enough away from football to fill their needs for the spotlight,  Kirk has never seemed to be that guy.

Some see this as a lack of fire,  I dont,  Kirk has fire,  just not the outward kind,  I see Kirk like the proverbial duck on a pond,  calm on the surface but underneath hes going 100 may.  Ha also seems like he wants to be a people pleaser which with the way things went with Zimmer and covid for him... that had to be a real stomach twister.    Especially with Zimmer and whats emerged about their relationship.

I agree the cap will keep going up,  but so will all other positional contract demands.  The Vikings really need to focus on percentages and keep their contracts in those ranges in order to sustain any type of solid roster.  There will always be bust contracts like Hunter and Pierce,  thats part of the game,  but with KC we know what we should expect and I think he falls into that type of money that TB played for in order to build around him.  Honestly paying Kirk like that is a boost for KC since TB was a significantly better QB in most peoples estimation. 

I think there's a quiet, inner fire that burns in Cousins. One that comes from being doubted by so many. You don't see it very often, but I think it's there. You can see glimpses of it in his "you like that" thing and that slightly too aggressive chest bump he gave old man Zimmer. Nothing motivates a player more than perceived "disrespect." Moss getting passed over by 20 teams. Brady dropping to the 6th round, etc. 

This debate on Kirk will soon reveal itself.  If Group 1 (stick with Cousins and he could win a SB) or Group 2 (get the most for him to rebuild) will be answered by the interest level from the QB market.  If a team is as enamored by Kirk's stats as some on here, they will show their hand and pursue heavily.  If a team is not enamored by his stats, we will see a very light market.

I am hoping for a team that absolutely "Loves" Kirk and gives us a nice deal because I think we are way more than a couple of players away and advocate a quick rebuild.  

Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

@"minny65" said: This debate on Kirk will soon reveal itself.  If Group 1 (stick with Cousins and he could win a SB) or Group 2 (get the most for him to rebuild) will be answered by the interest level from the QB market.  If a team is as enamored by Kirk's stats as some on here, they will show their hand and pursue heavily.  If a team is not enamored by his stats, we will see a very light market.

I am hoping for a team that absolutely "Loves" Kirk and gives us a nice deal because I think we are way more than a couple of players away and advocate a quick rebuild.  

@"purplefaithful" said: Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

as far as drafting a QB... its 23 for me... no point in taking a low percentage shot with a premium draft pick.  you still might miss,  but we also have to consider that we will miss 100% of the shots we dont take and even if KC gets extended.. his expiration date is certainly looming so we will still need to be finding his replacement in a year or two regardless.

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

as far as drafting a QB... its 23 for me... no point in taking a low percentage shot with a premium draft pick.  you still might miss,  but we also have to consider that we will miss 100% of the shots we dont take and even if KC gets extended.. his expiration date is certainly looming so we will still need to be finding his replacement in a year or two regardless.

Like you brought up in another post, it's time to shit or get off the pot with Cousins. He either signs a reasonable extension that gives us some cap flexibility or we trade him with only one year left on his deal. This can't be something we continually revisit every offseason or every other offseason as we struggle to get under the cap and sign our own free agents. Nobody wants to deal with that, and again he'll be 34 years old prior to the season starting and is not considered to be an elite player at his position (with the exception being a few people on this board). I have zero problem going into this year with Mond or a less expensive option under center if that means it gives us cap relief to build the roster moving forward and it lands us in the top 10 of next year's draft, where we select our QB of the future from a much deeper talent pool. I just don't consider Kurt bending us over a barrel on another big money contract as the best option in building this roster for the long haul. 

A big decision is looming, but I'm just happy we have a new HC and GM that can make a level headed decision. It makes me chuckle when folks say "See, Zimmer never liked Cousins because he knew he sucked". Zim hated every freaking offensive pick over the last two years except for Jefferson. Perhaps we have all forgotten that he refused to play Mond in the Packers game and only did when he had to. Whatever happens, I am going to trust the new regime. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

as far as drafting a QB... its 23 for me... no point in taking a low percentage shot with a premium draft pick.  you still might miss,  but we also have to consider that we will miss 100% of the shots we dont take and even if KC gets extended.. his expiration date is certainly looming so we will still need to be finding his replacement in a year or two regardless.

Like you brought up in another post, it's time to shit or get off the pot with Cousins. He either signs a reasonable extension that gives us some cap flexibility or we trade him with only one year left on his deal. This can't be something we continually revisit every offseason or every other offseason as we struggle to get under the cap and sign our own free agents. Nobody wants to deal with that, and again he'll be 34 years old prior to the season starting and is not considered to be an elite player at his position (with the exception being a few people on this board). I have zero problem going into this year with Mond or a less expensive option under center if that means it gives us cap relief to build the roster moving forward and it lands us in the top 10 of next year's draft, where we select our QB of the future from a much deeper talent pool. I just don't consider Kurt bending us over a barrel on another big money contract as the best option in building this roster for the long haul. 

Even with a $35M Cousins cap hit last year, the Vikings still had plenty of money to spend on their defense. With a $45M hit in '22, the Vikings will likely extend Cousins (at market value), add some void years, dropping his cap and giving us money to spend on the defense again this year. It's just a game and everyone plays it. And remember when that $45M hit was considered an astronomical number? It now ranks 3rd. Watson 4th, Tannehill 5th. Goff and Wentz round out the top 10. And you think WE are wasting money. 

Also, YOU may have zero problem going with Mond and tanking and spending the next two or three years rebuilding around a '23 top 10 pick who may or may not be able to play in the NFL, but I'd bet Jefferson, Cook and company would have a problem with it. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Not sure a quick rebuild = Trubisky or a Mariota....Cause thats what you'll get @ QB.

And as far as drafting one? We've all seen the stats on drafting QBs and what % of them even reach KC level. And 22 aint the year to pass on an edge or corner for a weak qb class offering. 

But yah, whether you're the Seahawks with Russel Wilson or Vikings with KC, you gotta take those calls this time of year. 

as far as drafting a QB... its 23 for me... no point in taking a low percentage shot with a premium draft pick.  you still might miss,  but we also have to consider that we will miss 100% of the shots we dont take and even if KC gets extended.. his expiration date is certainly looming so we will still need to be finding his replacement in a year or two regardless.

Like you brought up in another post, it's time to shit or get off the pot with Cousins. He either signs a reasonable extension that gives us some cap flexibility or we trade him with only one year left on his deal. This can't be something we continually revisit every offseason or every other offseason as we struggle to get under the cap and sign our own free agents. Nobody wants to deal with that, and again he'll be 34 years old prior to the season starting and is not considered to be an elite player at his position (with the exception being a few people on this board). I have zero problem going into this year with Mond or a less expensive option under center if that means it gives us cap relief to build the roster moving forward and it lands us in the top 10 of next year's draft, where we select our QB of the future from a much deeper talent pool. I just don't consider Kurt bending us over a barrel on another big money contract as the best option in building this roster for the long haul. 

Even with a $35M Cousins cap hit last year, the Vikings still had plenty of money to spend on their defense. With a $45M hit in '22, the Vikings will likely extend Cousins (at market value), add some void years, dropping his cap and giving us money to spend on the defense again this year. It's just a game and everyone plays it. And remember when that $45M hit was considered an astronomical number? It now ranks 3rd. Watson 4th, Tannehill 5th. Goff and Wentz round out the top 10. And you think WE are wasting money. 

Also, YOU may have zero problem going with Mond and tanking and spending the next two or three years rebuilding around a '23 top 10 pick who may or may not be able to play in the NFL, but I'd bet Jefferson, Cook and company would have a problem with it. 

@"Hawkvike25" said: A big decision is looming, but I'm just happy we have a new HC and GM that can make a level headed decision. It makes me chuckle when folks say "See, Zimmer never liked Cousins because he knew he sucked". Zim hated every freaking offensive pick over the last two years except for Jefferson. Perhaps we have all forgotten that he refused to play Mond in the Packers game and only did when he had to. Whatever happens, I am going to trust the new regime. 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"minny65" said: This debate on Kirk will soon reveal itself.  If Group 1 (stick with Cousins and he could win a SB) or Group 2 (get the most for him to rebuild) will be answered by the interest level from the QB market.  If a team is as enamored by Kirk's stats as some on here, they will show their hand and pursue heavily.  If a team is not enamored by his stats, we will see a very light market.

I am hoping for a team that absolutely "Loves" Kirk and gives us a nice deal because I think we are way more than a couple of players away and advocate a quick rebuild.  

what about the third group.... the one that says Kirk is adequate, but not without some real improvements to the OL an D, that he needs to help cover on a roster that is depleted and team that is cap strapped.. and I dont mean by kicking that cap hit down the road and is why we are where we are right now.  I want off this merry go round.  give him an offer that works for the team and if he doesnt sign then let the bidding ( and rebuild) begin.