68% completion, 31 TDs and 9 INTs average per year

@"dadevike" said: The QB was top 10 by any measure, even though pass blocking was below average (to be kind).  By contrast, our Defense was bottom 5.  What here needs to be fixed? The answer seems pretty obvious.  

Let's put it a different way.  Rank these tasks from easiest to hardest:
a) improve on a top 10 QB;
b) improve on below average pass blocking;
c) improve on a bottom 5 defense.

For me, c) seems pretty easy.

I think b) can be a bit of a challenge. Need to break that down by OL position.  Our Center and Right Guard positions are well below average.  That seems easier to fix than LT or even RT.

Then we come to improving on a top 10 QB. That is a tough task.  Now consider the fact that 1) we win too much to have any shot at the top overall draft pick; 2) we have no salary cap space; 3) we do not have multiple first round picks to use as trade capital; and 4) this seems to be a very weak QB draft class. 

Looks like we are better off focusing on improving our defense, Center, and Right Guard.

Could a mediocre QB get us 10 wins or more if the OL and D is playing well?  Maybe we could ask Case Keenum that question.

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said: You could win with those stats if they included the big moments of the game, which unfortunately they do not.  We have missed the playoffs in 3 of his 4 seasons, after winning the division 2 of 3 years before the great one got here, we have not sniffed the division since, so my answer would be you can win with those stats, but not without any kind of clutch performance, leadership and most of all passion for the game.  And that is why the Stafford comparisons are totally invalid, he is not even close to possessing any of the intangibles that Stafford has.  Is there anyone here who truly believes he would have made every play like Stafford did with the Super Bowl on the line, he wilts in a regular season prime time game.  

Do you actually watch the games? Serious question. 

Are you so narcissistic that it never occurs to you that someone else's opinion other than your own is correct?  Or that there are just other opinions that exist.  It seems very obvious there is your world and then everything else is a joke to you. Serious question.  

So, that's a no then?

@"JR44" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said: You could win with those stats if they included the big moments of the game, which unfortunately they do not.  We have missed the playoffs in 3 of his 4 seasons, after winning the division 2 of 3 years before the great one got here, we have not sniffed the division since, so my answer would be you can win with those stats, but not without any kind of clutch performance, leadership and most of all passion for the game.  And that is why the Stafford comparisons are totally invalid, he is not even close to possessing any of the intangibles that Stafford has.  Is there anyone here who truly believes he would have made every play like Stafford did with the Super Bowl on the line, he wilts in a regular season prime time game.  

Do you actually watch the games? Serious question. 

Are you so narcissistic that it never occurs to you that someone else's opinion other than your own is correct?  Or that there are just other opinions that exist.  It seems very obvious there is your world and then everything else is a joke to you. Serious question.  

So, that's a no then?

So it's a yes, you are that narcissistic.  

@"dadevike" said: The QB was top 10 by any measure, even though pass blocking was below average (to be kind).  By contrast, our Defense was bottom 5.  What here needs to be fixed? The answer seems pretty obvious.  

Let's put it a different way.  Rank these tasks from easiest to hardest:
a) improve on a top 10 QB;
b) improve on below average pass blocking;
c) improve on a bottom 5 defense.

For me, c) seems pretty easy.

I think b) can be a bit of a challenge. Need to break that down by OL position.  Our Center and Right Guard positions are well below average.  That seems easier to fix than LT or even RT.

Then we come to improving on a top 10 QB. That is a tough task.  Now consider the fact that 1) we win too much to have any shot at the top overall draft pick; 2) we have no salary cap space; 3) we do not have multiple first round picks to use as trade capital; and 4) this seems to be a very weak QB draft class. 

Looks like we are better off focusing on improving our defense, Center, and Right Guard.

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said:

@"JustinTime18™" said:

@"JR44" said: You could win with those stats if they included the big moments of the game, which unfortunately they do not.  We have missed the playoffs in 3 of his 4 seasons, after winning the division 2 of 3 years before the great one got here, we have not sniffed the division since, so my answer would be you can win with those stats, but not without any kind of clutch performance, leadership and most of all passion for the game.  And that is why the Stafford comparisons are totally invalid, he is not even close to possessing any of the intangibles that Stafford has.  Is there anyone here who truly believes he would have made every play like Stafford did with the Super Bowl on the line, he wilts in a regular season prime time game.  

Do you actually watch the games? Serious question. 

Are you so narcissistic that it never occurs to you that someone else's opinion other than your own is correct?  Or that there are just other opinions that exist.  It seems very obvious there is your world and then everything else is a joke to you. Serious question.  

So, that's a no then?

So it's a yes, you are that narcissistic.  

Name calling is a super way to make your point. Congrats.

If we had Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Pat Mahomes, or Josh Allen, or going back in time, Brady, Manning, Big Ben in his prime, any of those types of guys, would the fanbase spend literally thousands of hours fighting amongst themselves about the qb?   That is what I've seen in the 4 years we've had Kirk and it only gets louder and uglier as time goes by.   I visit 3 message boards and it dominates the conversation on all of them, and probably in the various places I don't visit like Reddit, etc.

You can rationalize Kirk with stats or whatever rationalization you like, but Kirk is what he is and that's why no consensus exists on him.  His game is flawed.   You wanna win a SB with Kirk, those stats won't do it.  You will need to put a great defense on the field and have a lot of luck.  It's a maybe once in a career type proposition. 

That is what your fanbase has to live with when Kirk is at the helm.  It's not like having an elite guy and over the course of 10 years your team might have multiple years with a legit shot to win it all.  That is the real difference - you are in the hunt most of the time.  You are not a team where the fanbase has to argue over rationalizations about how in the hunt you really are or aren't.  

Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse.
-Brady is gone.
-Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year.
-The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special.
-The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway. 
-SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not. 
-Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad.
-The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him.  even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term.  If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal)  I think more fans would be fine with him staying.  I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him.  even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term.  If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal)  I think more fans would be fine with him staying.  I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him.  even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term.  If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal)  I think more fans would be fine with him staying.  I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.

I still think that 35 number is too high,  but thats not an debate for now,  and it is a crap shoot,  we know that we need to be looking QB by 23,  but we know that KC and an improved coaching staff would likely do well enough to make sure that we are priced out of the top 7 picks where we would likely need to be to get one of those premium QB prospects for the future.  The Vikings have been in this sink hole forever,  just good enough to keep the jokes at a minimum,  but never good enough to deliver the goods.

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him.  even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term.  If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal)  I think more fans would be fine with him staying.  I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.

In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy.
Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing...
I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.

I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.

@"Norse" said: In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy. Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing... I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.

I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said: In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy. Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing... I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.

I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.

the one thing I really cant get behind is to let him play out his last year.. that makes no sense to me.  If you want him for 1 year, you wan him for 3,  so offer him an extension that works for the team and he either takes it or leaves it.  if he is gone after 22 then put him on the market now and get some decent picks for him from some team that is just a QB away, why pay him 35 milllion more for a year that is likely a throw away,  and get nothing in return?

@"Norse" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Norse" said: In my opinion it all comes down to whether the organization believes Kirk is their guy. Kirks career has never been stellar, he hasn’t went far in the playoffs. He has had a lot of good coaches in his career that have been to the superbowl. Nothing... I think they might just have him play out his last year. Or look for a trade we cant refuse.

I really don’t think he is the future of the franchise. Only time will tell.

the one thing I really cant get behind is to let him play out his last year.. that makes no sense to me.  If you want him for 1 year, you wan him for 3,  so offer him an extension that works for the team and he either takes it or leaves it.  if he is gone after 22 then put him on the market now and get some decent picks for him from some team that is just a QB away, why pay him 35 milllion more for a year that is likely a throw away,  and get nothing in return?

I agree with what your your saying. But I Honestly didn’t know if they would just use him for a bridge for a year. 

I don't know why this thread was started, given the fact the same debate was going on in another. But there is one thing I have noticed. Although I am skeptical regarding Cousin's ability to lead this team to a championship, I am impressed with the new leadership directing this team. If the new GM and head coach feel they can win with Cousins, I am good with that. Although I am not a big Cousins fan, I am excited about the new direction and staff the Vikings have brought in.

@"HappyViking" said: Great numbers for sure, but why are so many posts showing these stats needed to convince Longshippers that the Vikings already have a good QB? 

I think it's because we all see his flaws
too, and mainly it's in leadership, swagger, and confidence.  The things
that don't show up on stat sheets.  There's a burning desire to succeed in
QBs like Fran, Staubach, Bradshaw, Favre, Stabler, Brady, Mahomes, and other great winning QBs that seems to be lacking in KC.  There's a fire in him missing
or he's just too dorky that’s holding him back from being a leader. 

Hell,
Rudy thinks the Giants QB, Daniel Jones, was the best QB he's ever played
with.  Do you guys think Jones is better than Cousins?  Does anyone
here have a better understanding on how to evaluate those two QBs better than
Rudy?  I doubt it. 

If KC stays, fine, but if he's
traded away, it's probably because of his personality makeup not found on stat
sheets.

@"dadevike" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"dadevike" said: Another reason not to get rid of Cousins now: the NFC is wide open and may be getting even worse. -Brady is gone. -Rodgers might be gone. Even if he stays, GB likely will not be as good next year. -The Cowboys with Dak are good, but they're nothing special. -The Rams should have a hard time repeating and they are not that dominant anyway.  -SF will have an inexperienced QB - maybe he will be Joe Burrow, but probably not.  -Arizona and Kyler Murray can be very good and they can also be very bad. -The entire NFC South could suck.

Improve our horrible defense and 2 IOL spots and we have a legit shot. We will need some luck and some unexpected developments (Rams picked up OBJ and Von Miller mid-season. They do not win the SB without them). Maybe Wyatt Davis locks down RG?  

Just seems like this is the wrong time to dump what is a good, albeit not great, QB.  But we do need to get his cap number down.

I think most that want KC gone are saying so under the notion that he is unwilling (based on his past negotiations) to take a contract that is better for the team than it was for him.  even his last deal that cut his cap space for that year, ended up being the best thing for him and not necessarily the team long term.  If KC were to take a deal that brings that overall cap percentage down (over the duration of the deal)  I think more fans would be fine with him staying.  I know for me its his cap # when compared to the things he doesnt do as well as I would like to see a QB do them.

( this applies to a few other players as well,  we have many contracts that were made that shouldnt have been made,  or something has happened to change the value of that player (IMO) 

This is when I would consider getting rid of Kirk as I have zero desire to pay the man $45MM per year. Is he worth $35MM per year to me? Absolutely. I have no desire to chase a QB in this years' draft and betting on getting one next year with a new GM and HC is so tough because they don't want to be in a position where you're getting a top 4 QB in the draft. If those guys are the real deal, they're typically gone top 10.

I wish Cousins would take a below-market deal with the Vikings. Some QBs have done that, namely Brady and Brees. Cousins doesn't strike me as that type. 

Hey, but we all agree this guy sucks, right?