Will O'Connell appreciate durability in his QB?

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said: Stafford 2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB 2022 - 23 million Cap hit Total: 44

Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76 

But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2. 
 We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams :)

Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM

OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45.  I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.  

But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said: Stafford 2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB 2022 - 23 million Cap hit Total: 44

Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76 

But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2. 
 We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams :)

Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM

OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45.  I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.  

But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen

Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB.  Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million.  Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million?  Maybe if we make it for 10 years :)  Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023.  Those are the 3 options.  But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.  

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said: Stafford 2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB 2022 - 23 million Cap hit Total: 44

Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76 

But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2. 
 We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams :)

Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM

OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45.  I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.  

But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen

Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB.  Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million.  Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million?  Maybe if we make it for 10 years :)  Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023.  Those are the 3 options.  But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.  

Sure, but I dont consider QB wins as a stat. Maybe itd be different if Kirk had Aaron Donald, Von Miller, and Jalen Ramsey on defense. He has JJ but Stafford has Kupp and OBJ as receivers along with a much better OL. Why am I bringing this all up? Because all of those players are on a team paying $45MM for a starting QB yet will play in the super bowl.

I think Kirks extension would be between $30-$35MM next year which is about market value for what he does. The last two years are way more on Zimmer than they are on Kirk, unless you think QB wins are a stat

I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said:

@"Hawkvike25" said:

@"minny65" said: Stafford 2021 - 21million Cap hit - SB QB 2022 - 23 million Cap hit Total: 44

Cousins
2021 - 31 million Cap hit - 8-9 record QB
2022 - 45 million Cap hit
Total: 76 

But I do agree with others in the comparison between the 2. 
 We just need Kirk to take a huge pay cut so we can sign about 3 other superstars like the Rams :)

Yeah, Stafford cap hit is only $21MM and yeah Cousins cap hit is $31MM, but let's not ignore the fact that the Rams are also paying $24.7MM of dead cap money this year for Goff so that QB1 cap hit is more like $45.7MM

OK but this year is over for us (on a low note) so lets compare similar QB's and their salaries for next year - 23 vs 45.  I hope Kirk can help lead this team to a better than 8-9 record for that kind of money.  

But it's relevant? Rams are having success with paying $45.7MM for basically a starting QB and we bitch and moan about a cap hit that likely wont happen

Of course, it is relevant Kirk cost 31 million hit this year for a 8-9 finish while the Rams spent 46 for that position to make the SB.  Next season they will be paying Stafford 23 million.  Do you think we are going to get Kirk an extension that will be anywhere near 23 million?  Maybe if we make it for 10 years :)  Or we could avoid the whole thing and trade him if the new regime sees it that way but last option, I think, is let him play out at 45 and be free and clear for 2023.  Those are the 3 options.  But Stafford looks to be a bargain for the Rams while Kirk certainly has not been especially when you see has helped produce one winning season in his 4 years.  

Sure, but I dont consider QB wins as a stat. Maybe itd be different if Kirk had Aaron Donald, Von Miller, and Jalen Ramsey on defense. He has JJ but Stafford has Kupp and OBJ as receivers along with a much better OL. Why am I bringing this all up? Because all of those players are on a team paying $45MM for a starting QB yet will play in the super bowl.

I think Kirks extension would be between $30-$35MM next year which is about market value for what he does. The last two years are way more on Zimmer than they are on Kirk, unless you think QB wins are a stat

Yea and that is why my original post said that maybe if we could get Kirk to a more manageable salary we could sign 3 superstars becuase it is what Stafford needed and Cousins would need.  We are going in circles but I think we are on the same page although I lean towards looking into Kirk's trade value but It really comes down to Kwesi/O'Connell so we will see what they think of Kirk.  Also, when I mention wins, I also say the team or led the team to a 8-9 season.  I don't go by just the QB either from season to season but over a period of time like 4 years It would be nice to have a 100 million plus QB "help" produce a few winning seasons for a return on your investment.  That $$$ investment could be used other where and I don't think one person would say that Kirk has been a very good ROI, do you?

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

Given the relative comparison in stats and the durability factor shown earlier in this thread between Stafford and Cousins, if we plan on trading him, we should not only get a QB, but also receive their 2nd rd. pick this year and their 1st rd. in '23. (The Lions received 2 1st rounders). That would save us the cap stress this year of having 2 first rounders, and give us more ammunition for moving up for a top QB in a stronger class in '23. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

Wow. Don't think I'd put it quite that high. Before this weekend, I would've said 45%. Now maybe 55%.

Even if they decide they WANT to move forward with Kirk, they have to hammer out a deal that 1. Meets KAM's analytical vision 2. Eases our '22 cap situation. And 3. Is to Kirk and his agent's liking. That's a tough nut. 

I guess there is one option that no one is talking about: Play the year under the current contract. Doesn't seem very likely, but there are a few other places to find money. 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

Wow. Don't think I'd put it quite that high. Before this weekend, I would've said 45%. Now maybe 55%.

Even if they decide they WANT to move forward with Kirk, they have to hammer out a deal that 1. Meets KAM's analytical vision 2. Eases our '22 cap situation. And 3. Is to Kirk and his agent's liking. That's a tough nut. 

I guess there is one option that no one is talking about: Play the year under the current contract. Doesn't seem very likely, but there are a few other places to find money. 

There are a few motivating factors on each side to get a deal done. If I needed to break-out the odds further: 

- 20% chance of a trade 
- 50% chance of an extension 
- 25% chance he plays out the year on a $45M cap number 
- 5% chance there is no extension but the Vikings work with Kirk to add void years and move some of the $45M onto the 2023 cap with no guarantee he is in MN 

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

Wow. Don't think I'd put it quite that high. Before this weekend, I would've said 45%. Now maybe 55%.

Even if they decide they WANT to move forward with Kirk, they have to hammer out a deal that 1. Meets KAM's analytical vision 2. Eases our '22 cap situation. And 3. Is to Kirk and his agent's liking. That's a tough nut. 

I guess there is one option that no one is talking about: Play the year under the current contract. Doesn't seem very likely, but there are a few other places to find money. 

There are a few motivating factors on each side to get a deal done. If I needed to break-out the odds further: 

- 20% chance of a trade 
- 50% chance of an extension 
- 25% chance he plays out the year on a $45M cap number 
- 5% chance there is no extension but the Vikings work with Kirk to add void years and move some of the $45M onto the 2023 cap with no guarantee he is in MN 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

Wow. Don't think I'd put it quite that high. Before this weekend, I would've said 45%. Now maybe 55%.

Even if they decide they WANT to move forward with Kirk, they have to hammer out a deal that 1. Meets KAM's analytical vision 2. Eases our '22 cap situation. And 3. Is to Kirk and his agent's liking. That's a tough nut. 

I guess there is one option that no one is talking about: Play the year under the current contract. Doesn't seem very likely, but there are a few other places to find money. 

There are a few motivating factors on each side to get a deal done. If I needed to break-out the odds further: 

- 20% chance of a trade 
- 50% chance of an extension 
- 25% chance he plays out the year on a $45M cap number 
- 5% chance there is no extension but the Vikings work with Kirk to add void years and move some of the $45M onto the 2023 cap with no guarantee he is in MN 

What do you think of the KAM/KOC hires Geoff?

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"supafreak84" said:

@"Geoff Nichols" said: I don't really know if it'll be KOC's choice. Ultimately what matters at this point are Kirk's contract demands. They can let him play on the $45M cap hit, its not impossible. But it just doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Mainly because if the relationship is a hit, then Kirk is immediately a FA and MN looses all control. So you either extend him this season or trade him. Them choosing or wanting to work together is #1a but the contract is #1b. 

If they decide to move on from Cousins and are able to find a trade partner, what do you see as likely options for the Vikings at QB for next season? 

I'm just at the point where we are starting off completely fresh, new GM and new head coach. Cousins is a top 15 QB but not worth the money he has been paid. He's also going to be 34 before the season starts. We might as well start out fresh at QB too and build this thing for the long term 

Well, your initial question is kind of the issue. There aren't many "good" options immediately available. If they do go down the route of trading Cousins I think the 3 teams to watch are the Browns, Panthers, and Broncos. Each have a QB you could take back and use as a bridge. I do personally think there is more to Baker Mayfield's game, Drew Locke is MEH but better than some of the FA options, Darnold is more for salary matching than talent. In free agency someone who can manage the game like a Marcus Mariota makes some sense. 

Basically whoever you bring in at QB is going to be an overall downgrade. The good news is that I would argue somone like Baker/Mariota may be better situationally. So maybe the win/loss floor is about the same. The ceiling would just be lower. 

If the Vikings ultimately bite the bullet and move Kirk the best case scenario would be similar to what the Eagles did this season. Be a flawed football team who has enough raw talent to slide into the 7/8 seed with no real chance. 

Where do you put the odds of Cousins remaining a Viking for this coming season?

80%

Wow. Don't think I'd put it quite that high. Before this weekend, I would've said 45%. Now maybe 55%.

Even if they decide they WANT to move forward with Kirk, they have to hammer out a deal that 1. Meets KAM's analytical vision 2. Eases our '22 cap situation. And 3. Is to Kirk and his agent's liking. That's a tough nut. 

I guess there is one option that no one is talking about: Play the year under the current contract. Doesn't seem very likely, but there are a few other places to find money. 

There are a few motivating factors on each side to get a deal done. If I needed to break-out the odds further: 

- 20% chance of a trade 
- 50% chance of an extension 
- 25% chance he plays out the year on a $45M cap number 
- 5% chance there is no extension but the Vikings work with Kirk to add void years and move some of the $45M onto the 2023 cap with no guarantee he is in MN 

I guess that makes some sense since there is clearly only one option for the no-Kirk side (trade) and, as you point out, three options that could see him in purple next year.