Its interesting with Cousins.....
Diggs wasn't a fan. Thielen got in his face on the sidelines. And Now JJ on their relationship below:
#Vikings WR Justin Jefferson asked if he wants Kirk Cousins back next year: "Our relationship has been growing ever since I stepped in the building last year. Things aren't always perfect with us but he's the reason I'm getting all these yards."
— Chris Tomasson (@christomasson) January 9, 2022
Same with Z saying he needs to pull the trigger more. Interesting.
@"jargomcfargo" said:@"greediron" said: Will be interesting to see who is running the offense. Likely the new head coach.Cousins had his bad games, usually against a team like Chicago that killed us up front. So I am not sure if it was cousins or the offensive play calling when our line was getting its ass handed on a platter. Even Brady has issues when the hits start piling up.
I think Cousins will remain the same. Inconsistent and capable of stringing together several series of 3 and outs, but also capable of driving down the field with great accuracy for explosive plays. Even Zimmer wanted him to be more aggressive and take more chances this season.
Should the new regime stick with Cousins, it would behoove them to build the team from the trenches out.
The O-line is looking better and only needs a couple of upgrades to be pretty good.
And the defense will be the major challenge.
I think KC is to cerebral about a game that relies heavily on instincts and reaction in the moment. He knows everything there likely is to know about our offense and opposing defenses, but he cant shut his brain off and just let his eyes take over, instead of reading and reacting, he seems to lock onto pre snap reads and when the defense does what its supposed to do... hes golden, but when the add wrinkles or adjustments, he cant come off that first read and quickly recognize where the open guy should be. He is a smart dude that if given time will make that recognition, but unfortunately his feet suck and he is a statue in the pocket which make it very difficult to block for him since he rarely forces the rush to adjust to where hes going. ( although after watching him yesterday step up into a sack for no reason... well maybe its better if he doesnt try to much outside his comfort zone)
@"jargomcfargo" said:@"greediron" said: Will be interesting to see who is running the offense. Likely the new head coach.Cousins had his bad games, usually against a team like Chicago that killed us up front. So I am not sure if it was cousins or the offensive play calling when our line was getting its ass handed on a platter. Even Brady has issues when the hits start piling up.
I think Cousins will remain the same. Inconsistent and capable of stringing together several series of 3 and outs, but also capable of driving down the field with great accuracy for explosive plays. Even Zimmer wanted him to be more aggressive and take more chances this season.
Should the new regime stick with Cousins, it would behoove them to build the team from the trenches out.
The O-line is looking better and only needs a couple of upgrades to be pretty good.
And the defense will be the major challenge.
First question Wilfs should ask in GM interviews is what’s your plan at quarterback in the present, and in the future? The Vikings are beyond starved for a franchise, 15 year starting QB. Life in the NFL is soooo much easier when you have one.If they want to stick with Kirk in the meantime I won’t love it but okay, so long as they’re actively trying to move on/find that blue chipper.
The Oline has been below average since 2010.
Pass defense rule changes made in 2018 neutered the effectiveness of Zimmers defense
We ran a ridiculously simple and extremely predictable offense. Our playcalling was atrocious. A large majority of those short throws are to the primary receiver. So throwing short when you need 8 is the design of the offense we ran. It was unfricking believable.
Cousins did best in the last two minutes because he was making or at least had some actual leeway on the calls. He’s the one that would then throw downfield. Zimmer did not believe in a player making calls, only coaches, the coaches know better. It was old sh hook and stupid. Put one of these modern offensive gurus with Cousins and he’ll light it up. No more 9 forms of the exact same f’ing screen play being run 11 plays a game.
Cousins isn’t our problem and with the right hire, he’ll thrive.
Kirk is a good NFL QB. In 63 games with the Vikings he's 33-29-1 averaging 260 yard per game with a 100+ QB rating. In 2021 he was top 10 in most metrics. This season alone, I think his narrative would have been different if he'd played with even an average defense.
What Kirk isn't, is a guy who will carry your team and steal a game. He doesn't elevate the players around him.
The trouble is that the Vikings need to make yet another decision on his future this off-season and he's won a single playoff game for $115M. It just doesn't add up. But who are you replacing him with? No rookie QB in this years draft class or FA option really moves the needle. So you're left with 3 options.
1. Trade Kirk. I can say first-hand there will be more takers than people believe. If the Vikings pay some of his base salary in 2022 the return may be surprisingly strong.
2. You let him play out his 2022 contract at a $45M cap hit. This is less than ideal due to the cap hit and the fact Kirk can walk himself into FA after the season. Vikings can't franchise or transition tag him due to the cost. This also means he could strong arm his way to another beneficial deal.
3. Extend Kirk now on a deal that'll average close to $40M annually. Its where the market is. The benefit is you'll be able to reduce the 2022 cap his. You'll come across this juncture again in the future unfortunately.
For me it comes down to what type of deal Kirk would agree to. In the past he's emphasized fully guaranteed contracts with short term. This allows him to hit the market and achieve higher base salaries sooner. For the team this doesn't allow you to massage the cap hits as much. If Kirk would be willing to sign a 5 year contract for $40M annually I think you do that. You can then keep the cap hits low for 2-3 years vs. 1 and you're locked in. If he won't sign a deal that is more fair to the team, you probably need to trade him.
whate u mean surprisingly strong if they pay some of his money
@"Geoff Nichols" said: Kirk is a good NFL QB. In 63 games with the Vikings he's 33-29-1 averaging 260 yard per game with a 100+ QB rating. In 2021 he was top 10 in most metrics. This season alone, I think his narrative would have been different if he'd played with even an average defense.What Kirk isn't, is a guy who will carry your team and steal a game. He doesn't elevate the players around him.
The trouble is that the Vikings need to make yet another decision on his future this off-season and he's won a single playoff game for $115M. It just doesn't add up. But who are you replacing him with? No rookie QB in this years draft class or FA option really moves the needle. So you're left with 3 options.
1. Trade Kirk. I can say first-hand there will be more takers than people believe. If the Vikings pay some of his base salary in 2022 the return may be surprisingly strong.
2. You let him play out his 2022 contract at a $45M cap hit. This is less than ideal due to the cap hit and the fact Kirk can walk himself into FA after the season. Vikings can't franchise or transition tag him due to the cost. This also means he could strong arm his way to another beneficial deal.
3. Extend Kirk now on a deal that'll average close to $40M annually. Its where the market is. The benefit is you'll be able to reduce the 2022 cap his. You'll come across this juncture again in the future unfortunately.
For me it comes down to what type of deal Kirk would agree to. In the past he's emphasized fully guaranteed contracts with short term. This allows him to hit the market and achieve higher base salaries sooner. For the team this doesn't allow you to massage the cap hits as much. If Kirk would be willing to sign a 5 year contract for $40M annually I think you do that. You can then keep the cap hits low for 2-3 years vs. 1 and you're locked in. If he won't sign a deal that is more fair to the team, you probably need to trade him.
I agree with this 100 percent and I do think we will extend him. but it will be all for nothing if we dont get a freaking right guard! Spirlman should have been fired for putting Zero serious free agent dollars into one of the worst lines in the league the past three seasons.
Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.
@"pattersaur" said: Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.I agree. It would be good to sell while his stock is high and build for the future. It's a tough spot because as of now, there really isn't another obvious option for a decent replacement for him.
@"pattersaur" said: Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.
If you trade Cousins, you might as well start looking at QBs in the 23 draft not this draft. Suck it up badly this coming year. May be you start Mond or something in 22 and if it goes terrible then we have a very high pick waiting for us. If you're going this route though, we really need to clean house on older veterans. Even fan favorites. Blow up the roster and get busy finding the next decades worth of stars.
@"AGRforever" said:@"pattersaur" said: Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.If you trade Cousins, you might as well start looking at QBs in the 23 draft not this draft. Suck it up badly this coming year. May be you start Mond or something in 22 and if it goes terrible then we have a very high pick waiting for us. If you're going this route though, we really need to clean house on older veterans. Even fan favorites. Blow up the roster and get busy finding the next decades worth of stars.
I'm in the same boat. There are some teams with enough cap space to trade for Kirk and then extend his contract so it's less of a hit this year (Broncos, Panthers, WFT). I dont have much of an appetite for a QB in the first or second round this year so go get a lock down corner and get another stud defensive player and let's see what 2023 brings.I would like to point out that in the game last night they said Stetson Bennett may only be 5'9 but when he and Bryce Young shook hands they almost seemed like the same height so does that mean Bryce Young is only 5'9 or 5'10? Or are my eyes really that bad?
@"AGRforever" said:@"pattersaur" said: Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.If you trade Cousins, you might as well start looking at QBs in the 23 draft not this draft. Suck it up badly this coming year. May be you start Mond or something in 22 and if it goes terrible then we have a very high pick waiting for us. If you're going this route though, we really need to clean house on older veterans. Even fan favorites. Blow up the roster and get busy finding the next decades worth of stars.
Good Lord....Starting Mond?! A Minnshew, Drew Locke or Andie Dalton type?
Yuck. Thats what we're looking at.
All the dust is still rising from the nuke the Wilfs dropped on Eagan yesterday. But the best case scenario I see (to be competitive shorter term) is sign KC to a team friendlier extension and keep going back to the draft well for QB of tomorrow.
Buys them time to shop and curate a kid qb and I say KC is better than the potential alternatives that'll be available.
The two big questions for me on this are:
Is he open to a team friendlier deal? He's indicated yes
Will he be a scheme fit for new HC???
@"purplefaithful" said:@"AGRforever" said:@"pattersaur" said: Giving Kirk 5 more years because your ex-GM signed him to a bad deal last time and because this year’s rookie QB class isn’t highly touted would be would be peak Vikings. Please no.If you trade Cousins, you might as well start looking at QBs in the 23 draft not this draft. Suck it up badly this coming year. May be you start Mond or something in 22 and if it goes terrible then we have a very high pick waiting for us. If you're going this route though, we really need to clean house on older veterans. Even fan favorites. Blow up the roster and get busy finding the next decades worth of stars.
Good Lord....Will he be a scheme fit for new HC???
Agree, the Wilf's are going to be methodical.Find the best GM, who will find his HC, who will decide on his QB plan.
What it comes down to for me is do I think the Vikings have a better shot at winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years with Kirk Cousins, or with whatever is behind Door #2.
Personally, gimme door #2. I know many will disagree and that’s fine.
Also, I know tanking for a QB generally doesn’t work and even if you get your guy it’s more of a 3-4 year process back to being good than it is one year. That would be a grind for a team that’s used to at least being competitive. Neither option is ideal but I’d still prefer this to paying 38 (39?) year old Kirk $40+ mil.
The third option is the best option if we can actually get a solid return for Kirk, as Guru indicates. Let’s say we ship him to PIT for their first round pick. Would our 2 firsts this year plus one next year be enough to get Wilson? Watson if he’s in the clear? This would be the priority for me, if humanly possible. Draft OL in the 2nd and 3rd this year to make the offense as potent as possible. Defense will be atrocious again for one more year because we’ll have no money after eating much of Kirk’s salary plus paying Russ, but the offense is set. Load up on defense the following year with everything you got. I realize this scenario is extremely unlikely but with a new regime coming in, hope springs eternal!
Deal Kirk, see if you can nab a 1st in return. Find a potential stop gap or guy who could take the next step with the right weapons MINSHAW. Restructure Adam and keep Conklin
Draft DE and CB in the first round, roster bonus Hunter and upgrade the C (Karras) and RG (Tomlinson) with solid vets.
OL: Darrisaw-Cleveland-Karras-Tomlinson-ONeil
Weapons:
Jets - Adam - KJ -ISM - Westbrook - Cook - Kene - Irv - Conklin
QB:
Minshaw - Mond - Rookie
I guess I'm in the very very small minority but I don't think its going to be easy at all to trade Cousins. In fact, I just don't see it happening. And how could the team do it with nothing in the pipeline? And what looks to be a weak Draft for QBs?
@"StickyBun" said: I guess I'm in the very very small minority but I don't think its going to be easy at all to trade Cousins. In fact, I just don't see it happening. And how could the team do it with nothing in the pipeline? And what looks to be a weak Draft for QBs?
The weak QB class makes this a possibility. However, I doubt a new GM and coach what to risk their neck on a new QB. So I see him staying.
@"AGRforever" said:@"StickyBun" said: I guess I'm in the very very small minority but I don't think its going to be easy at all to trade Cousins. In fact, I just don't see it happening. And how could the team do it with nothing in the pipeline? And what looks to be a weak Draft for QBs?The weak QB class makes this a possibility. However, I doubt a new GM and coach what to risk their neck on a new QB. So I see him staying.
The new GM may not have any interest in hitching his wagon to Cousins so it's hard to say until we get that position filled. We also have no idea what we have in Mond as the previous regime wasn't giving him any opportunities. I was encouraged by what Kubiak said about his work ethic both on the field and in the film room. Will that translate into success? Who knows. If we can find a willing trade partner for Cousins, I would have no problem bringing in a bridge QB and let he and Mond battle it out for the starting role why we wait for the 2023 draft class to find our QBOTF unless Mond surprises us.
If only we had a shot to take a "good/NFL ready" QB last draft. Just saying.
@"mblack" said: If only we had a shot to take a "good/NFL ready" QB last draft. Just saying.Our GM didn't get canned for no reason
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