Its interesting with Cousins.....

I bet Kirk is a guy who is weird as shit and probably doesn't hang out with a lot of teammates in his free time. He has thrown for 30 TD's 3/4 years as a Viking so that certainly benefits JJ, Thielen, and crew so they let it slide. I'm good with however front office wants to handle him in the offseason so long as they make the right decision for HC (Kellen Moore).

You give KC time and he'll usually pick a D apart...

This OL is still under league avg imo and the D did nobody on offense any favors this year. A complete s hit show on that side of the ball. 

Heresy for a Viking branded team. 

@"purplefaithful" said: You give KC time and he'll usually pick a D apart...

This OL is still under league avg imo and the D did nobody on offense any favors this year. A complete s hit show on that side of the ball. 

Heresy for a Viking branded team. 

@"Greylock" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: You give KC time and he'll usually pick a D apart...

This OL is still under league avg imo and the D did nobody on offense any favors this year. A complete s hit show on that side of the ball. 

Heresy for a Viking branded team. 

If you give him time he can be good and move the offense but pick apart a defense, not so sure.  On more than one occasion he will focus in on a receiver when he may have another one more wide open.  It just seems he has a difficult time scanning the entire field for the best option.

Meh Jefferson is being a good teammate. Need to shore up the OL and get a good offensive coordinator. We'll see who is quarterback next year.

As a lot of people have said, his money is definitely part of the Kirk equation. Is he worth it, is he not?

I think Zimmer didn’t like Kirk because of the money he makes. Which in his mind takes away from Zimmer’s defense. But, Zimmer has a way of alienating players and then can’t get past it.

I’m good with keeping Kirk, but as a fan I think he needs to take less for the good of the team. However, if I were Kirk, I know I could have my career end with one play. So, I guess you have to let the organization figure all that stuff out.

What would JJ’s attitude be like if he had a gut like Mannion at QB for a season? We’ve had shitty QB’s in the past. Seems when Chilly was here, the only good season he had at QB was ‘09. Frazier was stuck with Ponder. Imagine that guy throwing to JJ!

I love Jefferson, I hope the individual records don’t mean as much as the team record does. I like Kirk, I wish he was willing to take less to have more as a team.

Still not convinced KC is the problem vs something you can win with....Agree with others, he's gotta be open to a team friendlier contract. We gotta get better on the D side of the ball and IOL too. 

@"purplefaithful" said: Still not convinced KC is the problem vs something you can win with....Agree with others, he's gotta be open to a team friendlier contract. We gotta get better on the D side of the ball and IOL too. 

I think Cousins will always be the QB who rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way...and then routinely goes out and throws 3 TDs, 0 picks, and 300 yards.

Also think that if he got the time some QBs get, you would need a pinball machine to keep score. Just bad timing I guess. Vikings finally rebuilt the line, but it's the youngest line in the NFL. They had one "sorta" miss, but it's probably just a year or two from being very good. 

It will be interesting to see if Cousins is the one who gets to benefit from that or someone else. 

They need to trade him asap to some team that hasn't caught on that Kirk is the shriveled wiener of NFL quarterbacks.

@"MaroonBells" said: I think Cousins will always be the QB who rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way...and then routinely goes out and throws 3 TDs, 0 picks, and 300 yards.

Also think that if he got the time some QBs get, you would need a pinball machine to keep score. Just bad timing I guess. Vikings finally rebuilt the line, but it's the youngest line in the NFL. They had one "sorta" miss, but it's probably just a year or two from being very good. 

It will be interesting to see if Cousins is the one who gets to benefit from that or someone else. 

But you're being way too definitive for me. I still see a BIG need to upgrade @ OG and C

I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense?  I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year.  A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense.  I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year.  The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.

@"medaille" said: I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense?  I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year.  A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense.  I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year.  The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.

I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC,  signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"medaille" said: I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense?  I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year.  A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense.  I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year.  The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.

I dont put KC in the same level as Brady or a Rogers...He does need a good surround. And any qb needs a D better than the s hit the Vikings fielded this season. 

I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC,  signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft. 

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"MaroonBells" said: I think Cousins will always be the QB who rubs a lot of players and fans the wrong way...and then routinely goes out and throws 3 TDs, 0 picks, and 300 yards.

Also think that if he got the time some QBs get, you would need a pinball machine to keep score. Just bad timing I guess. Vikings finally rebuilt the line, but it's the youngest line in the NFL. They had one "sorta" miss, but it's probably just a year or two from being very good. 

It will be interesting to see if Cousins is the one who gets to benefit from that or someone else. 

You're the draftnik, not me...

But you're being way too definitive for me. I still see a BIG need to upgrade @ OG and C

Will be interesting to see who is running the offense.  Likely the new head coach.  

Cousins had his bad games, usually against a team like Chicago that killed us up front.  So I am not sure if it was cousins or the offensive play calling when our line was getting its ass handed on a platter.  Even Brady has issues when the hits start piling up.

@"Zanary" said:

@"purplefaithful" said:

@"medaille" said: I guess the question I have with Kirk, is how many players can he carry on offense?  I just don't really see us being able to invest in the offense next year.  A $35M+ QB should be able to survive with 1-2 subpar players on offense.  I feel like I'm hearing people say that "if we just fix the OLine" than Cousins will start getting wins, but I don't think we can afford to have a perfect offense and neglect our defense next year.  The defense needs a massive youthful, talent influx.

I dont put KC in the same level as Brady or a Rogers...He does need a good surround. And any qb needs a D better than the s hit the Vikings fielded this season. 

I think a win/win for the Vikings is re-structuring KC,  signing a proven veteran for OG maybe a DB and then re-building the D with the draft. 

I don't know that I put them in their level, but at the same time...both have been in systems that absolutely value the trench play.  When Brady/Rodgers get a lot of pressure, they suddenly look very "average"...but, that's a rarity.  On the contrary, Minnesota QBs have basically spent the last decade running for their lives and/or getting clobbered before even getting set.  It's a brutal comparison when watching in bars with lots of TVs going on Sundays, because even some very bad teams' QBs will seemingly have great pockets and hours of time while Kirk has 2-3 seconds to get the snap, make his reads, set the feet, make the throw.

This isn't a new problem.  We've drafted and what-not to address it, but I'm not convinced that we've coached the OL worth shit since 2009.

My thoughts on Cousins.  Obviously an arm talent and usually good at reading defenses.  Quality QB with the following limitations:

• Will get the yips.  Bad plays get into his head and resides there the rest of the game.
• He is robotic in his reads and doesn't modify his calculations based on down and distance.  So, except maybe in 2 minute drills, he process his reads the same way on each play.  Thus, on a 3rd and 8, if the two first reads past the yardstick are 50/50 balls, he will throw the checkdown for a 3 yard gain.  He just doesn't have a risk/reward calculus depending on down and distance.  Frankly, I think the coaches are partly to blame by not adjusting their plays and play calls to account for the robotic way Cousins goes through his reads.  This is also why Cousins is not great with offscript plays.
• I don't think Cousins is the type of QB that elevates the play of his team and I think in evaluating Cousins you also must look at how much the receiving talent has elevated Cousins.

Just my 2 cents.

@"VikingOracle" said: My thoughts on Cousins.  Obviously an arm talent and usually good at reading defenses.  Quality QB with the following limitations:

• Will get the yips.  Bad plays get into his head and resides there the rest of the game.
• He is robotic in his reads and doesn't modify his calculations based on down and distance.  So, except maybe in 2 minute drills, he process his reads the same way on each play.  Thus, on a 3rd and 8, if the two first reads past the yardstick are 50/50 balls, he will throw the checkdown for a 3 yard gain.  He just doesn't have a risk/reward calculus depending on down and distance.  Frankly, I think the coaches are partly to blame by not adjusting their plays and play calls to account for the robotic way Cousins goes through his reads.  This is also why Cousins is not great with offscript plays.
• I don't think Cousins is the type of QB that elevates the play of his team and I think in evaluating Cousins you also must look at how much the receiving talent has elevated Cousins.

This does not disqualify Cousins as having the talent to bring a team to a SB -- much like coaches have to alter pays to account for what a QB does not do well, the coaches need to modify the plays (especially 3rd and long) to account for the way Cousins does risk assessment while going through his progressions.  At this point, I don't think you can coach out of Cousins his risk averse nature, but you can alter the playbook to make the less risky throw still be enough for a first down.

Just my 2 cents.

Yips, robot, no feel.  You can't coach that out of him.  You have to have enough talent, team, and luck to overcome a QB with no feel.  

@"greediron" said: Will be interesting to see who is running the offense.  Likely the new head coach.  

Cousins had his bad games, usually against a team like Chicago that killed us up front.  So I am not sure if it was cousins or the offensive play calling when our line was getting its ass handed on a platter.  Even Brady has issues when the hits start piling up.