Seattle Latest Stadium To Require Vaccine Proof

It's a start. Keep it up.

what is the gain?  vaccinated can spread it, vaccinated can get it,  hell vaccinated are more likely to be showing less affliction and be out an about than those that are unvaccincated and filling the hospitals, so what is the net gain?

if the goal really is to stop/slow the spread,  why have fans at all?

And since the SCIENCE CDC changed the definition of vaccination, I think if we do anything to generate an immune response, we are now vaccinated.  Cool

The gain ist that the vast majority of the infected are unvaxxed and that the vast majority of infected who are vaxxed have very little to no symptoms. So getting the vaccine gives you two very important advantages: 
1. chance of infection is multiple times lower
2. if infected, chances of ending up in hospital are very, very slim

Sources: (among others)
https://www.statista.com/chart/25589/covid-19-infections-vaccinated-unvaccinated/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-by-the-numbers-vaccinated-continue-to-be-protected

The main goal now with the vaccine available is not to stop the spread, it's minimizing severe cases and deaths. And to reach that goal, you better not put thousands of unvaxxed people into a crowded stadium of 60,000+ where at least a couple hundred will carry the virus anyway.

@"GermanVike" said: The gain ist that the vast majority of the infected are unvaxxed and that the vast majority of infected who are vaxxed have very little to no symptoms.

Sources: (among others)
https://www.statista.com/chart/25589/covid-19-infections-vaccinated-unvaccinated/

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/covid-19-by-the-numbers-vaccinated-continue-to-be-protected

The main goal now with the vaccine available is not to stop the spread, it's minimizing severe cases and deaths. And to reach that goal, you better not put thousands of unvaxxed people into a crowded stadium of 60,000+ where at least a couple hundred will carry the virus anyway.

but this isnt an NFL safety thing.  if the goal is to limit severe cases,  then keep the people that can catch and spread it (which is everybody) from congregating.  Period.  its not going to help the ERs and what not if we take 60K vaccinated,  cram them into crowded tailgates, lines at gates, bathrooms,  and concessions,  packed seating areas and concourses,  and then return them to the population that includes the unvaccinated.  ( some remember are prevented from getting the vaccination for other non personal reasons )  60k,  lets say that 3% (random number,  vaccinations are starting to wane, delta is still ramping up... its a number) are carrying covid,  and each one of them give it to 3 people ( I have seen the average vaccinated person that get delta is expected to infect about 7 people,  but I doubt that factors in attending NFL games) ....thats over 5k people that are then released back into the wild to spread it to vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.  If the goal is to slow/stop the spread and to relieve the pressure on the hospitals and such... then the 1 and only logical solution would be to no allow fans into games,  anything other than that is either out of the Teams and Cities control,  or is simply disingenuous as it really isnt doing shit to stop the problem.

Jimmy, I agree that it's not mainly an NFL safety thing. And of course the only "sure thing" would be not to allow any fans into the stadiums, but we already had that last year (w/o the vaccine) and people are sick of it - and the league wants to make more $$$ again, of course.

So now there's the vaccine, it works just as intended, and whoever is vaccinated carries a near 0% risk of severe illness. Half of the US population are fully vaccinated (and another 11-12 % once). These people want their normal lives back, and rightfully so. Therefore the exclusion of unvaccinated ist just consequential: it protects them (with their higher risk) from contracting the virus in the stadium and it also sends them a not so subtle message of: just get vaxxed already and you'll be just fine.

Of course, there are people who cannot get the vaccine for health related issues. But they are also protected by not unneccessarily spreading the virus among the unvaccinated. And I sure hope they are smart enough not to even ponder going to a packed stadium this year anyway....these people are the ones that are really bit in the backside by this virus, but you just can't account for everyone I guess...at least if the majority of us do want to live our normal lifes again anytime soon.

@"GermanVike" said: Jimmy, I agree that it's not mainly an NFL safety thing. And of course the only "sure thing" would be not to allow any fans into the stadiums, but we already had that last year (w/o the vaccine) and people are sick of it - and the league wants to make more $$$ again, of course.

So now there's the vaccine, it works just as intended, and whoever is vaccinated carries a near 0% risk of severe illness. Half of the US population are fully vaccinated (and another 11-12 % once). These people want their normal lives back, and rightfully so. Therefore the exclusion of unvaccinated ist just consequential: it protects them (with their higher risk) from contracting the virus in the stadium and it also sends them a not so subtle message of: just get vaxxed already and you'll be just fine.

Of course, there are people who cannot get the vaccine for health related issues. But they are also protected by not unneccessarily spreading the virus among the unvaccinated. And I sure hope they are smart enough not to even ponder going to a packed stadium this year anyway....these people are the ones that are really bit in the backside by this virus, but you just can't account for everyone I guess...at least if the majority of us do want to live our normal lifes again anytime soon.

I would go along with all that if the govt showed any inclination to allowing life to return to normal once vaccinated,  but they dont.  they talk about masks and other restrictions on normal regardless.  I dont honestly think a 95% vaccination status would change how fauci and company would run this thing, they have made to many statements and then back tracked over the past year and half for me to believe that they want us to every experience our idea of "normal" ever again.

@"GermanVike" said: Jimmy, I agree that it's not mainly an NFL safety thing. And of course the only "sure thing" would be not to allow any fans into the stadiums, but we already had that last year (w/o the vaccine) and people are sick of it - and the league wants to make more $$$ again, of course.

So now there's the vaccine, it works just as intended, and whoever is vaccinated carries a near 0% risk of severe illness. Half of the US population are fully vaccinated (and another 11-12 % once). These people want their normal lives back, and rightfully so. Therefore the exclusion of unvaccinated ist just consequential: it protects them (with their higher risk) from contracting the virus in the stadium and it also sends them a not so subtle message of: just get vaxxed already and you'll be just fine.

Of course, there are people who cannot get the vaccine for health related issues. But they are also protected by not unneccessarily spreading the virus among the unvaccinated. And I sure hope they are smart enough not to even ponder going to a packed stadium this year anyway....these people are the ones that are really bit in the backside by this virus, but you just can't account for everyone I guess...at least if the majority of us do want to live our normal lifes again anytime soon.

https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1434630860435869697

Starting to see some real data on the vaccines.  It is a good first attempt in trying to contain the spread. However Delta, Lamda, and MU amongst other mutations mean the vaccine is far from the "solution", the same as the flu vaccine is hit or miss every year.  The problem is that the vaccine may be responsible for making things worse, not better in the long run.  The goal posts continue to move on what success looks like for the vaccines.  One sure thing is that it will be defined differently in three months than it is now.  Those blaming the spread of the Delta variant on those not being vaccinated are NOT basing it on science.  They're basing it on a simplistic notion of what Covid 19 is, and that a vaccine will simply wipe it out.  That isn't going to happen and was never going to happen.  The virus was made to mutate, just as it's doing.   That same crowd would argue we should be on lockdown and with masks on in our basement right now, imho.   Please look up RanIsraeli on Twitter who shows the numbers coming out of Israel of fully vaccinated individuals.  For whatever reason, it won't link here.

^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

Please show how the data is wrong if you're disputing it, and who's saying it's wrong.  Even if you're right, it's pretty similar to the quality of studies done in the US to back up wearing masks every where we go...  And..... you're also sourcing the guy probably singly most responsible for the mutations going on in the Virus to begin with, as is the President of the US.  :)

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country. 

First: I don't know what's going on in Israel right now, they have only a slightly higher percentage of their population fully vaccinated than here in Germany (62.7% vs. 61.6%) and our population is almost 10 times higher ( 83 million vs. 9 mio.). But in Germany there have been only 125 COVID-related deaths in August, and in Israel it's 607? Wow... maybe because Israel started the vaccination a couple months earlier than Germany and now the effects of the vaccinations begin to diminish...?

Second:
Comparing the total number of deaths without taking into account the vaccination rate is simply bogus: I mean, if a country has a 100% vaccination rate, then guess how many percent of covid-related deaths are vaccinated people? Yeah right, 100%  :o  :p

But the one thing that is pretty clear: under 60 you're relatively safe from dying (only 5.4% of deaths), the younger you are, the better your chances.

If you're over 60 and UNvaxxed, you've got a bigger problem:

Total numbers:
- deaths over age 60 + vaxxed: 373 (2+3 shots) 
- deaths over age 60 + unvaxxed: 199

Since more than 85% of the population age 60+ in Israel are vaxxed, the comparison vaxxed/unvaxxed in this age group looks like this:

373/ 85 x 100 = 439 deaths if 100% were vaxxed
199/ 15 x 100 = 1,326 deaths if 100% were unvaxxed.

The Vaccine DOES work, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. And it's not only about deaths, long covid is an issue by itself that should not be overlooked. Now, how often does it occur? Data is still unclear, but the simple fact that it does exist and affects quite a few people is both sad and also undeniable.

10% of the teachers at our school are Covid positive. 
Both my kids got exposed today.One teacher caught covid, got Pfizer, and has it again.  She is early 40s.  Her sister is dying of it.  We have NO hospital beds anywhere in our region.  Zero, zilch nada.  Her sister got sent how with a bottle of O2 and a bunch of other stuff and basically told good luck.

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country. 

@"AGRforever" said:

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country. 

I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers.  You don't want to get the shots.  Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers.  Stick to your guns.  You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick. 

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"AGRforever" said:

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country. 

I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers.  You don't want to get the shots.  Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers.  Stick to your guns.  You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick. 

Exactly. Fuck um. Anyone with covid that isn't vaccinated should not be taking up space in a hospital. Same for the dumb shits taking horse dewormer. Fuck them. Fuck them twice.

@"AGRforever" said:

@"BarrNone55" said:

@"Kentis" said: ^^^ Now your sourcing a former 6th grade science teacher’s twitter account who graduated from an Israeli university w/ 1-10 employees, convincingly awesome…  B) Is Pee Wee Herman next…?  ;) Wikipedia…!?  B) 

This would be a lot funnier if these mental giants weren't taking up every ICU bed across the country. 

I am SOOOO over the selfish fuckers.  You don't want to get the shots.  Fine but don't go to the hospital you selfish fuckers.  Stick to your guns.  You don't want to trust medical professionals pleading with you to get vaccinated, then don't crawl to them to fix you when you get sick. 

My sentiments exactly.... 

The hospitals in NW Arkansas are unable to take care of people who need a serious emergency surgery.  Well look at the states around me in Fayetteville:  Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Louisiana, Tennessee  .... all in the same boat.  So where do you Life Flight someone to? 

Right now, nowhere.  Surgery candidates have to wait until til someone dies to free up a bed.   Car accidents, gun shots, etc people are unable to get life-saving surgeries because there's no ICU beds left, because they're all full of Waterboys ...

Still waiting for it to all magically disappear like the Orange Messiah promised them, but let's blame Fauci and Biden for Trump's unmitigated disaster of handling the issue ....

@"SFVikeFan" said: My sentiments exactly.... 

The hospitals in NW Arkansas are unable to take care of people who need a serious emergency surgery.  Well look at the states around me in Fayetteville:  Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Louisiana, Tennessee  .... all in the same boat.  So where do you Life Flight someone to? 

Right now, nowhere.  Surgery candidates have to wait until til someone dies to free up a bed.   Car accidents, gun shots, etc people are unable to get life-saving surgeries because there's no ICU beds left, because they're all full of Waterboys ...

Still waiting for it to all magically disappear like the Orange Messiah promised them, but let's blame Fauci and Biden for Trump's unmitigated disaster of handling the issue ....

What a take.  Lol

If we can't discuss this topic without taking the political angle,  the topic won't be on this board,  or the poster won't be in the thread.