Still don't get the Cousins hate....

Highest Completion % since 2015:

1. Kirk Cousins 67.99%
2. Deshaun Watson 67.85%
3. Matt Ryan 66.88%
4. Patrick Mahomes 66.03%
4. Dak Prescott 66.03%

min. 1,500 attempts pic.twitter.com/2cdKNCFTNw

— NFL on CBS 🏈 (@NFLonCBS) June 8, 2021

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

Oh wait, he's also thrown and completed more deep passes than anyone on this list. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

Twitter: "That number is inflated because he's a dink and dunk passer."

Oh wait, he's also thrown and completed more deep passes than anyone on this list. 

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

Twitter: "That number is inflated because he's a dink and dunk passer."

Oh wait, he's also thrown and completed more deep passes than anyone on this list. 

Yep. Its almost like politics. You won't be changing anyone's mind on Kirk Cousins.

@"HappyViking" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

Twitter: "That number is inflated because he's a dink and dunk passer."

Oh wait, he's also thrown and completed more deep passes than anyone on this list. 

Yep. Its almost like politics. You won't be changing anyone's mind on Kirk Cousins.

Sticky, I think everyone here wants Kirk to win games for the team.  If the team wins the division, wins in the playoffs, and wins the SB, all Longshippers would adore him.  So far as a Viking, Kirk has barely sniffed a winning record and only has a single playoff win, and with his huge salary, fans get impatient with a high priced QB on a losing team.  If the team starts winning, fans will change their minds on KC.  There will be more cheering than bitching for sure.

Yep @jargomcfargo ! Win a Super Bowl and I’m fine with fat extensions for everybody: players, coaches, GMs. Is that prudent? Nope. But I’d much rather see that than be like Philly and win it, then run everybody out of town within a couple of years.

Might be the KC Royals fan in me but I’m still smiling about that 2015 WS some 5 years later. If you get a ring, IMO you’re a made guy. Kirk, Zim, everybody. 

@"HappyViking" said:

@"StickyBun" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

Twitter: "That number is inflated because he's a dink and dunk passer."

Oh wait, he's also thrown and completed more deep passes than anyone on this list. 

Yep. Its almost like politics. You won't be changing anyone's mind on Kirk Cousins.

Sticky, I think everyone here wants Kirk to win games for the team.  If the team wins the division, wins in the playoffs, and wins the SB, all Longshippers would adore him.  So far as a Viking, Kirk has barely sniffed a winning record and only has a single playoff win, and with his huge salary, fans get impatient with a high priced QB on a losing team.  If the team starts winning, fans will change their minds on KC.  There will be more cheering than bitching for sure.

I think it's more of he should not get a pass. We critique defense, offense, OL, special teams, etc. The quarterback is going to get some criticism and he should. We can choose whatever stat there is but the most important one is wins. He has contributed to some of them and he has contributed his share to losses. Whatever anyone thinks of him, he is still the quarterback. 

@"Vikergirl" said: https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1402307266922037248?s=19

@"Zanary" said:

@"Wetlander" said: The tweet is one example of an extreme...  but is the extreme take an accurate representation of those that think the Vikings can do better at QB? 

It's like the pro-Cousins fans that keep spouting the tweet that says Cousins is 5-1 with a ridiculously high QB rating when pressured under 20% or whatever it is in 2020.  How much you wanna bet that stat was from both Lions games, Jacksonville, Cowboys, Texans, and the Panthers?  All teams that drafted in the top 10 and were awful pressuring the QB.  Sure it'd be great if we could play trash teams for all 17 weeks of the regular season, but sooner or later you're going to play a good team, especially in the playoffs.

The fact is Cousins is not an elite QB.  He's like Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jimmy G, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, etc. who can all play well and lead the team to the playoffs when they have a great team around them, but they aren't elevating a good (flawed) roster to the playoffs.

This discussion is getting stale.

My response to that is, and will remain, that the "elite" tend to have fewer flaws in their protection and/or their teams to overcome.

How many rings has golden boy Russell Wilson had since the "Legion of Boom" splintered?

How much time per snap do QBs like Erin and Brady get, vs what we've settled for during the last decade?  Does anyone think they'd win 13 games behind our o-line, with the defense handing over 30 PPG?

It's a fuggin' team sport.  Eli Manning has 2 rings, and he's nowhere near elite.  Trent Dilfer?  Game manager, defined.  Nick Foles is basically average in every metric...but was on a team good enough to win the whole thing.

Cousins isn't perfect, but the hatred toward him is pure stupidity.  He's waaaaay down the list of the team's problems, and would be far further if he even had middling protection...as opposed to bottom-quarter of the league.

The fixation on QB stats without context is purely for fantasy football dorks, and the hatred toward our most consistent QB in many years is babble by the clueless.

@"medaille" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"Wetlander" said: The tweet is one example of an extreme...  but is the extreme take an accurate representation of those that think the Vikings can do better at QB? 

It's like the pro-Cousins fans that keep spouting the tweet that says Cousins is 5-1 with a ridiculously high QB rating when pressured under 20% or whatever it is in 2020.  How much you wanna bet that stat was from both Lions games, Jacksonville, Cowboys, Texans, and the Panthers?  All teams that drafted in the top 10 and were awful pressuring the QB.  Sure it'd be great if we could play trash teams for all 17 weeks of the regular season, but sooner or later you're going to play a good team, especially in the playoffs.

The fact is Cousins is not an elite QB.  He's like Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jimmy G, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, etc. who can all play well and lead the team to the playoffs when they have a great team around them, but they aren't elevating a good (flawed) roster to the playoffs.

This discussion is getting stale.

My response to that is, and will remain, that the "elite" tend to have fewer flaws in their protection and/or their teams to overcome.

How many rings has golden boy Russell Wilson had since the "Legion of Boom" splintered?

How much time per snap do QBs like Erin and Brady get, vs what we've settled for during the last decade?  Does anyone think they'd win 13 games behind our o-line, with the defense handing over 30 PPG?

It's a fuggin' team sport.  Eli Manning has 2 rings, and he's nowhere near elite.  Trent Dilfer?  Game manager, defined.  Nick Foles is basically average in every metric...but was on a team good enough to win the whole thing.

Cousins isn't perfect, but the hatred toward him is pure stupidity.  He's waaaaay down the list of the team's problems, and would be far further if he even had middling protection...as opposed to bottom-quarter of the league.

The fixation on QB stats without context is purely for fantasy football dorks, and the hatred toward our most consistent QB in many years is babble by the clueless.

Go look at the list of all the SB winners and just compare
them by ones that were won by a perennial top 5ish, HOF caliber QBs and which
ones were won by anyone else?  I look at
the list from 2000 to 2020 and see 15 SBs won by teams having perennial top 5ish
HOF caliber QBs and 6 won by any of the other 27 teams.  If you have a perennial top 5 QB, you are
asking the question, how many SBs is this QB going to win?  If you have any other QB, you are asking, can
we catch lightning in a bottle?

With Cousins, we’re going to have to hope that we’re the one
team out of the 27 teams without an elite QB vying for that one SB win every 4
years that falls out of elite QB hands. 
Could it happen?  Sure, but the
shortest path to a SB win is to get an elite QB, and to get an elite QB, you
need to just keep drafting guys, and making sure your system allows them to flourish.

@"medaille" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"Wetlander" said: The tweet is one example of an extreme...  but is the extreme take an accurate representation of those that think the Vikings can do better at QB? 

It's like the pro-Cousins fans that keep spouting the tweet that says Cousins is 5-1 with a ridiculously high QB rating when pressured under 20% or whatever it is in 2020.  How much you wanna bet that stat was from both Lions games, Jacksonville, Cowboys, Texans, and the Panthers?  All teams that drafted in the top 10 and were awful pressuring the QB.  Sure it'd be great if we could play trash teams for all 17 weeks of the regular season, but sooner or later you're going to play a good team, especially in the playoffs.

The fact is Cousins is not an elite QB.  He's like Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jimmy G, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, etc. who can all play well and lead the team to the playoffs when they have a great team around them, but they aren't elevating a good (flawed) roster to the playoffs.

This discussion is getting stale.

My response to that is, and will remain, that the "elite" tend to have fewer flaws in their protection and/or their teams to overcome.

How many rings has golden boy Russell Wilson had since the "Legion of Boom" splintered?

How much time per snap do QBs like Erin and Brady get, vs what we've settled for during the last decade?  Does anyone think they'd win 13 games behind our o-line, with the defense handing over 30 PPG?

It's a fuggin' team sport.  Eli Manning has 2 rings, and he's nowhere near elite.  Trent Dilfer?  Game manager, defined.  Nick Foles is basically average in every metric...but was on a team good enough to win the whole thing.

Cousins isn't perfect, but the hatred toward him is pure stupidity.  He's waaaaay down the list of the team's problems, and would be far further if he even had middling protection...as opposed to bottom-quarter of the league.

The fixation on QB stats without context is purely for fantasy football dorks, and the hatred toward our most consistent QB in many years is babble by the clueless.

Go look at the list of all the SB winners and just compare
them by ones that were won by a perennial top 5ish, HOF caliber QBs and which
ones were won by anyone else?  I look at
the list from 2000 to 2020 and see 15 SBs won by teams having perennial top 5ish
HOF caliber QBs and 6 won by any of the other 27 teams.  If you have a perennial top 5 QB, you are
asking the question, how many SBs is this QB going to win?  If you have any other QB, you are asking, can
we catch lightning in a bottle?

With Cousins, we’re going to have to hope that we’re the one
team out of the 27 teams without an elite QB vying for that one SB win every 4
years that falls out of elite QB hands. 
Could it happen?  Sure, but the
shortest path to a SB win is to get an elite QB, and to get an elite QB, you
need to just keep drafting guys, and making sure your system allows them to flourish.

@"medaille" said:

@"Zanary" said:

@"Wetlander" said: The tweet is one example of an extreme...  but is the extreme take an accurate representation of those that think the Vikings can do better at QB? 

It's like the pro-Cousins fans that keep spouting the tweet that says Cousins is 5-1 with a ridiculously high QB rating when pressured under 20% or whatever it is in 2020.  How much you wanna bet that stat was from both Lions games, Jacksonville, Cowboys, Texans, and the Panthers?  All teams that drafted in the top 10 and were awful pressuring the QB.  Sure it'd be great if we could play trash teams for all 17 weeks of the regular season, but sooner or later you're going to play a good team, especially in the playoffs.

The fact is Cousins is not an elite QB.  He's like Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, Jimmy G, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, etc. who can all play well and lead the team to the playoffs when they have a great team around them, but they aren't elevating a good (flawed) roster to the playoffs.

This discussion is getting stale.

My response to that is, and will remain, that the "elite" tend to have fewer flaws in their protection and/or their teams to overcome.

How many rings has golden boy Russell Wilson had since the "Legion of Boom" splintered?

How much time per snap do QBs like Erin and Brady get, vs what we've settled for during the last decade?  Does anyone think they'd win 13 games behind our o-line, with the defense handing over 30 PPG?

It's a fuggin' team sport.  Eli Manning has 2 rings, and he's nowhere near elite.  Trent Dilfer?  Game manager, defined.  Nick Foles is basically average in every metric...but was on a team good enough to win the whole thing.

Cousins isn't perfect, but the hatred toward him is pure stupidity.  He's waaaaay down the list of the team's problems, and would be far further if he even had middling protection...as opposed to bottom-quarter of the league.

The fixation on QB stats without context is purely for fantasy football dorks, and the hatred toward our most consistent QB in many years is babble by the clueless.

Go look at the list of all the SB winners and just compare
them by ones that were won by a perennial top 5ish, HOF caliber QBs and which
ones were won by anyone else?  I look at
the list from 2000 to 2020 and see 15 SBs won by teams having perennial top 5ish
HOF caliber QBs and 6 won by any of the other 27 teams.  If you have a perennial top 5 QB, you are
asking the question, how many SBs is this QB going to win?  If you have any other QB, you are asking, can
we catch lightning in a bottle?

With Cousins, we’re going to have to hope that we’re the one
team out of the 27 teams without an elite QB vying for that one SB win every 4
years that falls out of elite QB hands. 
Could it happen?  Sure, but the
shortest path to a SB win is to get an elite QB, and to get an elite QB, you
need to just keep drafting guys, and making sure your system allows them to flourish.

For the people that are giving me resistance, what are you arguing for?
I'm arguing for "Hey we should be drafting QBs that might be better than Kirk" because the upside of hitting is massive

Are you arguing "Kirks not garbage, we have a chance with him" or are you arguing "I have so much faith in Kirk that we should solely focus on building around him rather than drafting competition"

@"medaille" said:

For the people that are giving me resistance, what are you arguing for? I'm arguing for "Hey we should be drafting QBs that might be better than Kirk" because the upside of hitting is massive

Are you arguing "Kirks not garbage, we have a chance with him" or are you arguing "I have so much faith in Kirk that we should solely focus on building around him rather than drafting competition"

@"medaille" said:

For the people that are giving me resistance, what are you arguing for? I'm arguing for "Hey we should be drafting QBs that might be better than Kirk" because the upside of hitting is massive

Are you arguing "Kirks not garbage, we have a chance with him" or are you arguing "I have so much faith in Kirk that we should solely focus on building around him rather than drafting competition"

No team would ever do that, though. The potential for egg on your face is too great when you offload your top third QB for a roll of the dice and end up with Trubisky, Winston, Wentz, etc. 

And now look what you've done. You've taken a stacked roster capable of winning a Super Bowl with a pretty good QB and turned it into a rebuild, which is another thing many many people advocated for earlier this year. Sounds a bit crazy right now. 

Vikings best bet for a Super Bowl the next few seasons is with Kirk Cousins. So they did exactly what they should've done: they kept him, rebuilt the defense, fortified his protection, and drafted a no-competition, but high-upside QB in the 3rd round to develop behind him. 

Mond may not be the next great young QB, but with a line of all 1st and 2nd round draft picks (and Davis), the weapons he'll have and his ability to run, he may not have to be. 

@"MaroonBells" said:

@"medaille" said:

For the people that are giving me resistance, what are you arguing for? I'm arguing for "Hey we should be drafting QBs that might be better than Kirk" because the upside of hitting is massive

Are you arguing "Kirks not garbage, we have a chance with him" or are you arguing "I have so much faith in Kirk that we should solely focus on building around him rather than drafting competition"

You're not factoring the downside of missing on that highly drafted QB. Especially if you use Kirk to get him, as if in a trade up of some sort, which many many people advocated earlier this year. It sets you back years. 

No team would ever do that, though. The potential for egg on your face is too great when you offload your top third QB for a roll of the dice and end up with Trubisky, Winston, Wentz, etc. 

And now look what you've done. You've taken a stacked roster capable of winning a Super Bowl with a pretty good QB and turned it into a rebuild, which is another thing many many people advocated for earlier this year. Sounds a bit crazy right now. 

Vikings best bet for a Super Bowl the next few seasons is with Kirk Cousins. So they did exactly what they should've done: they kept him, rebuilt the defense, fortified his protection, and drafted a no-competition, but high-upside QB in the 3rd round to develop behind him. 

Mond may not be the next great young QB, but with a line of all 1st and 2nd round draft picks (and Davis), the weapons he'll have and his ability to run, he may not have to be. 

My issue is largely due to what I call the "Madden fans", who are all about how things could be by plugging in this player or that player, instead of investing that same energy in, y'know, the people actually sweating through the games in their teams' uniforms.  They seem to man-sturbate about being able to have a video game reality, where they could just reset their rosters 12 times per season.

I find these people to be absolute dinks, just babbling "...but, if we'd have had Mahomes and maybe Julio..." with every insight.  Useless.

Where Cousins is concerned, I've found the hatred to be stupefying since day 1.  Yes, he's gotten handsomely paid, but also brutally battered behind what's been a bottom-quarter-of-the-league o-line since joining the Vikings.  He's had bad plays and bad games, but he's also won, straight up, when competing against the elite QB so many are fawning and fainting over...which doesn't get mentioned.

The people babbling "he's all stats" are just cowards who actually are saying "I can't argue against tangibles, so I want them marginalized".

The people crying into their White Claws for every hot, mobile, young QB kinda miss that Wilson is almost a decade since his last SB win, and only one year less removed from his last SB appearance.  Erin is a decade out.  The young studmuffin QBs on the Ravens, Texans, and Cardinals were only at this year's SB if they had tickets.  As for Mahomes...Cousins did at least as well against the Bucs' defense.

Cousins also has gotten those gaudy, much-derided stats in a run-first offense with the terrible pass protection.  He's had to do more with less, and the knocks against him being bad when plays break down is kinda hilarious when so VERY MANY plays were broken down by our terrible middle o-line play.  He's inarguably had to do more with less real opportunities.

He's been our most productive, most consistent QB in many years...possibly ever.  His W/L stats, which are kinda laughable considering that it's a team sport, are superior to Tarkenton's.  He's actually improved steadily with the Vikings despite the rotating OCs and having to be a punching bag for a slew of 300+ pound DLs.

I'm not saying he's perfect, and I'm not saying to hamstring the rest of the QB room...but, one thing those "elites" all have is an offense and staff built around them.  Cousins has done all he's done in an offense built around Cook as much as him.

I'd rather personally over-invest in players we have than spend my energies looking past them.  My cheers, snarls, profanity, and fist-pumping are for the players actually in our uniforms, on the roster and on the field.

Fourth quarter comebacks and game winning
drives should be considered.  I left Drew Brees, Philip
Rivers, and Alex Smith on since they played last year.   

Active QBs - Fourth Quarter Comebacks (Career)

Tom Brady: 39

Drew Brees: 36

Ben Roethlisberger: 35

Matthew Stafford: 31

Matt Ryan: 30

Philip Rivers: 29

Russel Wilson: 24

Andy Dalton: 23

Ryan Tannelhill: 22

Derek Carr: 21

Alex Smith: 19

Joe Flacco: 18

Aaron Rodgers: 17

Cam Newton: 16

Ryan Fitzpatrick: 13

Kirk Cousins: 11

Matt Schaub: 11

Nick Foles: 10

Marcus Mariota: 9

Carson Wentz: 9

Josh Allen: 8

Deshawn Watson: 8

Blaine Gabbert: 7

Jimmy Garappollo: 7

Jamison Winston: 7

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

Active QBs - Game Winning Drives (Career)

Drew Brees 53

Tom Brady 48

Ben Roethlisberger 46

Matt Ryan 38

Matthew Stafford 38

Philip Rivers 35

Russell Wilson 31

Andy Dalton 27

Aaron Rodgers 25

Derek Carr 24

Joe Flacco 24

Alex Smith 23

Ryan Tannehill 22

Cam Newton 20

Ryan Fitzpatrick 18

Kirk Cousins 16

Dak Prescott 15

Matt Schaub 14

Nick Foles 12

Josh Allen 11

Marcus Mariota 11

Jameis Winston 11

Case Keenum 10

Deshaun Watson 10

Carson Wentz 10

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_active.htm

A comparison between Kirk Cousins and a 40-41 year old Brett Favre.

Minnesota Vikings: Kirk Cousins vs Brett Favre

Cousins: 47 starts - 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4
Game-Winning Drives
Favre: 29 starts - 3 Fourth Quarter Comebacks, 4
Game-Winning Drives