Six games and it's not even Halloween yet...

If the powers that be knew this was going to be a step back year, no way they extend Kirk and trade for YN. All damage control now.

@"kmillard" said: If the powers that be knew this was going to be a step back year, no way they extend Kirk and trade for YN. All damage control now.

@"kmillard" said: If the powers that be knew this was going to be a step back year, no way they extend Kirk and trade for YN. All damage control now.

Everything points to a coaching and front office overhaul but many don't want to talk about that. We sure can talk around it :)
It is also hard for a new regime to inherit a young QB who just got drafted and needs to be developed  (I hope in this scenario is also playing well). We can't expect to be as lucky as the Cardinals for a redo.

@"mblack" said: Everything points to a coaching and front office overhaul but many don't want to talk about that. We sure can talk around it :) It is also hard for a new regime to inherit a young QB who just got drafted and needs to be developed  (I hope in this scenario is also playing well). We can't expect to be as lucky as the Cardinals for a redo.

@"purplefaithful" said: Feels like we've already played 10 or 11 games to me...

I hate seasons like this, when you're out of it so dang early. 

As a fan, you never want to root for em to lose, but this is the year to do just that.

REALLY hate seasons like this. 

 I think  his rebuild is gonna take  longer than has been advertised. 

Save this post, my guess is it'll fit in  2021 and 2022

@"Vikergirl" said:

@"kmillard" said: If the powers that be knew this was going to be a step back year, no way they extend Kirk and trade for YN. All damage control now.

I didn't see the need for the extension but that wasn't the choice the front office made. If they aren't comfortable drafting a qb, consult with someone who is. If they don't draft a qb, they should be fired. My question is who is going to develop the qb. 

@"Mattyman" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Feels like we've already played 10 or 11 games to me...

I hate seasons like this, when you're out of it so dang early. 

As a fan, you never want to root for em to lose, but this is the year to do just that.

REALLY hate seasons like this. 

The Vikings are up against the Salary Cap and it isn't going up until 2023.

 I think  his rebuild is gonna take  longer than has been advertised. 

Save this post, my guess is it'll fit in  2021 and 2022

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"Mattyman" said:

@"purplefaithful" said: Feels like we've already played 10 or 11 games to me...

I hate seasons like this, when you're out of it so dang early. 

As a fan, you never want to root for em to lose, but this is the year to do just that.

REALLY hate seasons like this. 

The Vikings are up against the Salary Cap and it isn't going up until 2023.

 I think  his rebuild is gonna take  longer than has been advertised. 

Save this post, my guess is it'll fit in  2021 and 2022

I agree for next year for sure which is why we need to sell sell sell,  however if things fall right this draft and they are willing to move on from Cousins this year,  then we could be ready for a playoff push by 22 and possibly competing for real in 23.  I just dont think Spielman is willing to stomach 2 years of struggle though.  He will try and make some splash moves that will add a couple wins and screw our draft positions enough to push us down to the next tier of talent and we will be be right back where we were last year,  to much talk and not enough walk.

I agree for next year for sure which is why we need to sell sell sell,  however if things fall right this draft and they are willing to move on from Cousins this year,  then we could be ready for a playoff push by 22 and possibly competing for real in 23.  I just dont think Spielman is willing to stomach 2 years of struggle though.  He will try and make some splash moves that will add a couple wins and screw our draft positions enough to push us down to the next tier of talent and we will be be right back where we were last year,  to much talk and not enough walk.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

this is the Vikings... never bet on them... never bet against them.

@"JimmyinSD" said:

@"mblack" said: Everything points to a coaching and front office overhaul but many don't want to talk about that. We sure can talk around it :) It is also hard for a new regime to inherit a young QB who just got drafted and needs to be developed  (I hope in this scenario is also playing well). We can't expect to be as lucky as the Cardinals for a redo.

I agree with Sticky,  I dont know that Spielman is out,  do we even know if Zimmer was his choice or if he was hand picked by the Wilfs via the big Tuna?  I agree though that despite my liking the Zimmer old school approach,  I think we need to move on.  Zimmer is a defensive genius but if his schemes require the type of talent that he has been given then we need to look elsewhere and focus more on offense and I dont think Zim is the kind of guy that make that commitment.

As for Rick, though he has done a decent job how many GMs get to pick coach number 3 ( I am sure he had a say in Frazier), and QB #5 with very little playoff success in said resume? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Rick went to Cincinnati and interviewed him, then they brought him up to Minnesota later. He was a known candidate who'd been turned down by a lot of teams. At the time the story was that he and Rick bonded because they were both coach's sons.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Rick went to Cincinnati and interviewed him, then they brought him up to Minnesota later. He was a known candidate who'd been turned down by a lot of teams. At the time the story was that he and Rick bonded because they were both coach's sons.

Yes, and call it hindsight if you wish, but there were big red flags in Zimmer's selection.

1. "Turned down by a lot of teams": For good reason, and not only because he talked rough. Zimmer's biggest qualification was that he had longevity in the coaching circles, but no other team gave him a shot in all that time. Why didn't we consider all the reasons other teams had for not moving him to a Head Coach job? Was it our turn to give him his lifetime award for near-achievement?
2. "He and Rick bonded": Why is that a reason to hire a head coach? I know, it happens in hiring, but hiring managers are coached to not hire candidates just because they are similar to yourself. This isn't just for diversity, but to get different qualifications and perspectives. They don't need to be best buddies to work together; in fact, that probably gets in the way of tough decisions.

@"kmillard" said:
As for Rick, though he has done a decent job how many GMs get to pick coach number 3 ( I am sure he had a say in Frazier), and QB #5 with very little playoff success in said resume? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

This has always been my contention about Spielman, regardless of how many writers grade him among the top 15 GMs in the league, or how many draft picks of his turn out well (only in the first 3 rounds though). He failed repeatedly at picking QB, which is one of his primary missions. Picking Head Coach is just as high. Applaud him for his ability to draft DEs or CBs, but those aren't core to a team's success.

@"comet52" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Rick went to Cincinnati and interviewed him, then they brought him up to Minnesota later. He was a known candidate who'd been turned down by a lot of teams. At the time the story was that he and Rick bonded because they were both coach's sons.

Yes, and call it hindsight if you wish, but there were big red flags in Zimmer's selection.

1. "Turned down by a lot of teams": For good reason, and not only because he talked rough. Zimmer's biggest qualification was that he had longevity in the coaching circles, but no other team gave him a shot in all that time. Why didn't we consider all the reasons other teams had for not moving him to a Head Coach job? Was it our turn to give him his lifetime award for near-achievement?
2. "He and Rick bonded": Why is that a reason to hire a head coach? I know, it happens in hiring, but hiring managers are coached to not hire candidates just because they are similar to yourself. This isn't just for diversity, but to get different qualifications and perspectives. They don't need to be best buddies to work together; in fact, that probably gets in the way of tough decisions.

@"kmillard" said:
As for Rick, though he has done a decent job how many GMs get to pick coach number 3 ( I am sure he had a say in Frazier), and QB #5 with very little playoff success in said resume? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

This has always been my contention about Spielman, regardless of how many writers grade him among the top 15 GMs in the league, or how many draft picks of his turn out well (only in the first 3 rounds though). He failed repeatedly at picking QB, which is one of his primary missions. Picking Head Coach is just as high. Applaud him for his ability to draft DEs or CBs, but those aren't core to a team's success.

That said, I think the Ngakoue trade blowing up and the salary cap disaster facing the team are the biggest reasons that could lead to Spielman losing his job this year.

@"Jor-El" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"Jor-El" said:

@"comet52" said:

@"JimmyinSD" said:

Rick went to Cincinnati and interviewed him, then they brought him up to Minnesota later. He was a known candidate who'd been turned down by a lot of teams. At the time the story was that he and Rick bonded because they were both coach's sons.

Yes, and call it hindsight if you wish, but there were big red flags in Zimmer's selection.

1. "Turned down by a lot of teams": For good reason, and not only because he talked rough. Zimmer's biggest qualification was that he had longevity in the coaching circles, but no other team gave him a shot in all that time. Why didn't we consider all the reasons other teams had for not moving him to a Head Coach job? Was it our turn to give him his lifetime award for near-achievement?
2. "He and Rick bonded": Why is that a reason to hire a head coach? I know, it happens in hiring, but hiring managers are coached to not hire candidates just because they are similar to yourself. This isn't just for diversity, but to get different qualifications and perspectives. They don't need to be best buddies to work together; in fact, that probably gets in the way of tough decisions.

@"kmillard" said:
As for Rick, though he has done a decent job how many GMs get to pick coach number 3 ( I am sure he had a say in Frazier), and QB #5 with very little playoff success in said resume? Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

This has always been my contention about Spielman, regardless of how many writers grade him among the top 15 GMs in the league, or how many draft picks of his turn out well (only in the first 3 rounds though). He failed repeatedly at picking QB, which is one of his primary missions. Picking Head Coach is just as high. Applaud him for his ability to draft DEs or CBs, but those aren't core to a team's success.

That said, I think the Ngakoue trade blowing up and the salary cap disaster facing the team are the biggest reasons that could lead to Spielman losing his job this year.

Eventually some info about his getting turned down came to light.  It was said he went to interviews and couldn't answer specific questions like who will you hire for your staff.   He'd say he'd figure that out after he was hired.   Some posters who watch film claim there is a similar lack of prep for some games.  He just figures he'll be brilliant during the game, whereas he does put together more specific plans for certain matchups--Aaron Rodgers, playoffs, etc.   I think he's a decent DC but that's his ceiling.  

As for bonding with Rick, well a lot of hires in this world are based on personal interactions more so than some analysis of a candidate/resume.  And I've seen long, analytical hiring processes fail quite spectacularly once the hire is made, in business at least--I don't work in football.  

In any case and despite its flaws the hire was better than Chili or Les, two of Zygmunt's very special starry-eyed one interview trigger pulls.   But the years it takes for this ownership group to make the smallest incremental progress in their own processes just boggles my mind.   They can't take a hard, objective look at themselves to save their lives--if they could we wouldn't be looking at having to eat big contracts for Rick and Zim to bring needed change, along with swallowing the godawful and totally reckless Cousins extension.